[BigTex]

I ran across the link below at the USDA and it describes the percentages of U.S. land that are used for crops, pasture, urban areas, etc.

Interesting information.

This is from 2002:



USDA Major Uses of Land Info

[mos6507]

Makes you wonder just how much arable land can be reclaimed in the burbs.

[Tyler_JC]

A few things pop out from that chart.

1. How much of that grassland/pasture can be converted into farmland?

2. How many acres of wetlands are legitimate wetlands and how many can be easily converted to farmland?

3. How much of the federally owned land can be converted to farmland?

4. Does that 3% figure for urban areas include the suburbs?

If the answer to those first three question is "a lot" and the last answer is "yes"...we're in pretty good shape.

[BigTex]

A few things pop out from that chart.

1. How much of that grassland/pasture can be converted into farmland?

2. How many acres of wetlands are legitimate wetlands and how many can be easily converted to farmland?

3. How much of the federally owned land can be converted to farmland?

4. Does that 3% figure for urban areas include the suburbs?

If the answer to those first three question is "a lot" and the last answer is "yes"...we're in pretty good shape.

Minimally, I think the urban rooftop garden is an under-utilized resource.

Not a solution, but there is certainly some spare capacity there.

[kpeavey]

Thats a fine site

Agricultural land changes, same site gives us:

Land shifting into urban uses seldom shifts back. In 15 years, only 3,000 acres shifted from urban into agricultural uses, whereas 13.9 million acres (28 percent) shifted from agricultural to urban uses.

and a loss of 30,733,000 acres of cropland from 1982 to 1997
US pop
1982 231,664,458
1997 267,743,595

US cropland acres
1982 1,065,950,000=4.6 acres/person
1997 1,035,217,000=3.9 acres/person

these are the numbers I have available. I'm sure the trend over the last 11 years has been similar.

Turning fine farmland into apartment complexes and strip malls seems like a good idea to some.

[Tyler_JC]

And yet, higher oil prices (along with other factors) are causing the bottom to fall out of the exurban property market.

I don't think that the next 10 years will see as much outward expansion as the last 10 years.

The trend of moving further and further away from where you work and shop seems to be slowing down.

Many of my friends grew up in the suburbs and when they talk about the future, none of them include a white picket fence. Everyone wants to move into a city and stay there.

[heroineworshipper]

So how much land isn't being used at all?

[mos6507]

Minimally, I think the urban rooftop garden is an under-utilized resource.

Not a solution, but there is certainly some spare capacity there.

Which I think will go towards solar before gardening.

[eastbay]

A few things pop out from that chart.

1. How much of that grassland/pasture can be converted into farmland?

2. How many acres of wetlands are legitimate wetlands and how many can be easily converted to farmland?

3. How much of the federally owned land can be converted to farmland?

4. Does that 3% figure for urban areas include the suburbs?

If the answer to those first three question is "a lot" and the last answer is "yes"...we're in pretty good shape.

Minimally, I think the urban rooftop garden is an under-utilized resource.

Not a solution, but there is certainly some spare capacity there.

Dude, now THAT was funny.

[BigTex]

A few things pop out from that chart.

1. How much of that grassland/pasture can be converted into farmland?

2. How many acres of wetlands are legitimate wetlands and how many can be easily converted to farmland?

3. How much of the federally owned land can be converted to farmland?

4. Does that 3% figure for urban areas include the suburbs?

If the answer to those first three question is "a lot" and the last answer is "yes"...we're in pretty good shape.

Minimally, I think the urban rooftop garden is an under-utilized resource.

Not a solution, but there is certainly some spare capacity there.

Dude, now THAT was funny.

What's funny about that?

If we're talking about everyone living in the cities, why not try to grow as much food as you can within the city limits?

I'm talking about the rooftops of the apartment buildings we will all be living in, not the mcmansion roof.

The mcmansion roof is typically sloped anyway, so you would have to do a terrace garden.

[BigTex]

So how much land isn't being used at all?

As MQ would say, it's ALL being used.

[Tanada]

This thread brings up one of my major peeves with modern society. For a couple decades dedicated suburbanites would bag their grass clippings and leaves which they would dutifully ship off to the landfill where they would be buried forming a long term carbon sequestration by default. Now in most urban/suburban area's those same carbon masses that used to be sequestered are turned into mulch, being encouraged to rot thus returning their Carbon to the Atmosphere. Same thing with Newsprint and scrap paper/carboard.

Bury it all and you slow down CO2 increases, mulch/recycle and you are ultimately increasing your carbon footprint substantially.

[eastbay]

...oh. Well, I thought you were cracking a joke, a pretty good one at that, about calling the rooftops of suburban homes 'underutilized land' better suited as gardens than places for nailing shingles.

I can barely keep the shingles on mine when the wind starts cranking up. I can imagine what would happen when fall winds hit and the 45 degree angles making up my home roof were covered with fertile soil and tomato plants.

[BigTex]

...oh. Well, I thought you were cracking a joke, a pretty good one at that, about calling the rooftops of suburban homes 'underutilized land' better suited as gardens than places for nailing shingles.

I can barely keep the shingles on mine when the wind starts cranking up. I can imagine what would happen when fall winds hit and the 45 degree angles making up my home roof were covered with fertile soil and tomato plants.

No, no, no, I'm just musing on what the post-PO city dwellers are going to do for food.

You know what, though, city parks might make good farmland.

Any lessons from Cuba of which you are aware?

***

Tomato plants on your roof is a funny thought. I live on kind of a high point and it gets VERY windy here. No plant could live on my roof, unless maybe it was a mesquite tree.

[Tanada]

...oh. Well, I thought you were cracking a joke, a pretty good one at that, about calling the rooftops of suburban homes 'underutilized land' better suited as gardens than places for nailing shingles.

I can barely keep the shingles on mine when the wind starts cranking up. I can imagine what would happen when fall winds hit and the 45 degree angles making up my home roof were covered with fertile soil and tomato plants.

No, no, no, I'm just musing on what the post-PO city dwellers are going to do for food.

You know what, though, city parks might make good farmland.

Any lessons from Cuba of which you are aware?

***

Tomato plants on your roof is a funny thought. I live on kind of a high point and it gets VERY windy here. No plant could live on my roof, unless maybe it was a mesquite tree.

Oh come now surely Blueberries, strwberries and other ground cover edible plants like Dandelion would do fine on your roof, if it could support the weight.

[kpeavey]

Rafters usually have 2' spacing, limiting the load it can support
in the north, roofs are steeper, usually 45 degrees to allow snow to slide off.

Contemporary construction uses OSB as a roof sheathing material, also limiting the load.

The idea of terraced roof gardening is sound, but will require some additional construction to support it. A minimum depth of a foot would be desired. For the south facing roof of a 1200 sqft house, that roof would need to support
-400-600 cuft of soil mix, depending on how it is set up
-water weight
-plants
-humans
-stakes/posts/trellis
-added wind load interacting with mature plants
-terrace bed structure
-stairs

A cheaper addition to a home would be a greenhouse attached to the south wall. The home gardener gets vertical growing space, transplants, winter crops, and the bonus of supplemental solar heating for free. Open it up in the summer or cover with shades.

[eastbay]

...oh. Well, I thought you were cracking a joke, a pretty good one at that, about calling the rooftops of suburban homes 'underutilized land' better suited as gardens than places for nailing shingles.

I can barely keep the shingles on mine when the wind starts cranking up. I can imagine what would happen when fall winds hit and the 45 degree angles making up my home roof were covered with fertile soil and tomato plants.

No, no, no, I'm just musing on what the post-PO city dwellers are going to do for food.

You know what, though, city parks might make good farmland.

Any lessons from Cuba of which you are aware?

***

Tomato plants on your roof is a funny thought. I live on kind of a high point and it gets VERY windy here. No plant could live on my roof, unless maybe it was a mesquite tree.

Oh come now surely Blueberries, strwberries and other ground cover edible plants like Dandelion would do fine on your roof, if it could support the weight.

10-4 BT,

I'm no expert on how Cuba survived their PO crisis, other than accelerating common sense vegetable gardening just about everywhere they could. Just like we're going to be doing. Fruit trees grow everywhere there and I used to reach up and pick mango's just about everywhere I went and any time I wanted on that neat little island. One nice thing is that no one suffers for lack of fruit. That was back in the early and mid-80's though, but I assume it's even better now.

Funny you mentioned blueberries and strawberries Tanada. That's exactly what we have sharing the same space alongside our house. A small number of bushes can produce zillions of blueberries and the ground underneath them is covered with several varieties of strawberries... a few dandelions sneak in as well....

But we usually pull them. Maybe I should let them grow too. I have no idea how large do you allow the leafs to get.... I mean, at what point do you peel away at a few leafs? I think we're all at or near the point of not pulling dandelions like we used to. Thanks if you or anyone else knows.

[copious.abundance]

4. Does that 3% figure for urban areas include the suburbs?

Suburban, by definition, is part of an urban area.

[copious.abundance]

Thats a fine site

Agricultural land changes, same site gives us:

Land shifting into urban uses seldom shifts back. In 15 years, only 3,000 acres shifted from urban into agricultural uses, whereas 13.9 million acres (28 percent) shifted from agricultural to urban uses.

and a loss of 30,733,000 acres of cropland from 1982 to 1997
US pop
1982 231,664,458
1997 267,743,595

US cropland acres
1982 1,065,950,000=4.6 acres/person
1997 1,035,217,000=3.9 acres/person

these are the numbers I have available. I'm sure the trend over the last 11 years has been similar.

Turning fine farmland into apartment complexes and strip malls seems like a good idea to some.

Not all lost farmland is turned into strip malls and apartments. Sometimes marginal farmland is just abandoned and/or turned into pasture, some is set aside for conservation, and a variety of other reasons.