[Omnitir]

Organic farming could feed the world

A switch to organic farming would not reduce the world's food supply and could also increase food security in developing countries, say the authors of a new study.
They claim their findings lay to rest the debate over whether organic farming could sustainably feed the world. Organic farming avoids or heavily restricts the use of synthetic pesticides and fertilisers, as well as livestock feed additives. ...
Now, a team of researchers has compiled research from 293 different comparisons into a single study to assess the overall efficiency of the two agricultural systems. ...
The world currently produces the equivalent of 2786 calories per person per day. The researchers found that under an organic-only regime, farms could produce between 2641 and 4381 calories per person per day.

This makes me question the die-off mantra that PO will result in mass starvation as synthetic pesticides, herbicides, fertilisers and feed additives become unaffordable. If organic farming has been shown to provide larger yields than current conventional agriculture, why would the post peak agricultural paradigm continue to rely on petrochemical inputs?

Perhaps there is currently vested interest in maintaining the current agricultural system, but what's stopping a mass change towards organic farming? Will we refuse to adopt more productive methods as petrochemical agriculture becomes increasingly unsustainable?
Would we rather starve than adopt an organic regime?

[Narz]

Saw this article earlier. I posted it over here on this gaming forum I go to. The response (except for a few people I knew would be receptive) was underwhelming. People just don't want to believe simpler is better. As one guy said, "how is farming - (minus) technology better than farming + technology". I think it's a losing battle and maybe that's for the best. The question is, do we really want to feed the world? Sounds cruel but I'd say for most people the answer is no. Perhaps if we hadn't fed the world so well up until now we wouldn't be in this mess.

[billp]

It still takes petroleum fuels to bring these products to market. Organic farming is still hooked on using tractors and such. Until we find a way to replace the powered equipment that is used on the farm and uses oil, we are still dependent on it.

It took me about 3 quarts of gas for rototiller to put garden in.

Green bush beans taste great. And all ripen about the same time.
We get sick of green beans quick.
Net BTU loss, I think. But fun and good exercise. And not too bright from a BTU EROEI standpoint.;
techie senior citizen

[Ludi]

Organic gardening and farming could "feed the world," probably.
The limiting factors would be - water, labor, and proximity of farms and gardens to population centers.
Some large cities in dry areas (Los Angeles, Las Vegas) could be in trouble without cheap transportation.

More people would need to farm and garden, certainly, not the current something like 2% of the population.
I don't use a rototiller to garden, and in fact, no non-human energy is needed for gardening except for pumping water. And maybe some for making garden tools, etc.
Merely "organic" farming and gardening may not be sustainable, as it may not provide enough habitat for other creatures. Something more - ugh, pardon the word - "holistic" is needed, such as permaculture. I don't see any drawback to "feeding the world" Narz, if we can do it in a way which allows the Earth's life systems and other beings to live also. Unless you just don't like people!

[killJOY]

COULD.
Didn't you see that word???
Organic farming [fade]COULD[/fade] feed the world.

That doesn't mean that it WILL.
I am an organic farmer. It is intense, backbreaking work. Who's gonna do such work in the USA? Your momma?

[I_Like_Plants]

Yes, COULD.
Americans will starve before they'll get their hands dirty. They'll spend $10/person on fast food even while their finances are crashing, rather than start out a garden with a few hens out back.
Jared Diamond's example of the Greenlanders describes it perfectly - Americans will die if they can't have things the way they're used to, the Greenlanders wouldn't eat fish, and when suburban Americans become homeless they always leave nice lawns behind.

[Heineken]

Needless to say, and with apologies to Ludi, I agree with pstarr and the other deriders of this ridiculous notion.
The world's bloated human population would never have arisen without the buckets of easy food provided by our good buddies oil, NG, and coal, and it will not survive their waning.
Yes, organic farming COULD feed the world---a world with a much, much smaller population.
Aye, there's the rub.

[BastardSquad]

Organic gardening


I don't use a rototiller to garden, and in fact, no non-human energy is needed for gardening

I gotta tell ya,I'm stumped on this whole "I gotta have a rototiller" mentality.

Why in the hell would you ever need one for gardening?

In my experience,any dirt that needs tilling can be done with a shovel,if not,you're doing it wrong and need to reevaluate your gardening practices.

Now I know what some of you are thinking"but you don't understand,the ground is really hard here!"

I used to have areas in my yard(I think I've pretty much run out of them at this point) in which digging in the dirt was like digging into concrete,if you have this problem I say STOP DIGGING!

If you can,just rough up an inch or two on the surface,then take soil from the bottom of your compost pile(YOU DO HAVE A COMPOST PILE DON'T YOU????) and pile it about 6 inches deep on the area you
want to grow on.Now find some dandelions that have gone to seed
and plant the seeds in between the spaces you plan to grow your food crops.

Again,I know what many of you are thinking"OMFG,you want me to put weeds in my garden on purpose?"

I can't help but wonder,who decided what plants get to be called "weeds"? All plants have a role to play in the ecosystem,if they didn't fill some (important)niche,they'd be extinct.

The dandelions serve two functions.1)Because they have a very long tap root(several feet long)and will grow damned near anywhere,they have the ability to break up and loosen extremely hard soils.2)Because the tap root is so long it can get too and bring up water several feet deep,something most other plants can't do,in the process it not only waters itself,but brings moister to the surface that can be used by other nearby plants.

If your doing the traditional - till a given area,10x10,12x20,20x20,20x40 or whatever, and plant in rows then I have to say

YOU STOP THAT!!!

YOU STOP THAT RIGHT NOW!!!

Divide your garden into easily manageable plots,3x3,2x3,4x4,in the most convenient combination with paths in between.

except for pumping water.

With the correct use of "weeds" and rainwater collection/storage,the need to water can be kept to a minimum.

[BastardSquad]

COULD.

I am an organic farmer. It is intense, backbreaking work. Who's gonna do such work in the USA? Your momma?

Work smarter,not harder.

[BastardSquad]

Yes, COULD.

Americans will starve before they'll get their hands dirty. They'll spend $10/person on fast food even while their finances are crashing, rather than start out a garden with a few hens out back.

On this point I have to say I agree with you,along with Pstarr and Heineken.

The problem is not a matter of "if" but of "will"?


I trueley believe "IF" Americans were to devote a large percentage of their lawn space to the production of biofuels there would be no impending crisis.

But the attitude is "screw that! I'm not doing that!Let someone else deal with and solve this problem.I have to go get my nails done".

[killJOY]

Organic agriculture is groovy but it certainly is no panacea. Industrial organic agriculture is more dependent on petroleum transport than otherwise. In place of refined npk organic requires chicken poop, rock phosphate, tons of calcium and potassium. It is all trucked into large organic farms using petroleum.

this is right on, p. That's what I've learned from working at an O. farm. I love the place, but it isn't exactly free of petroleum.

My own garden is a different story. 100% compost and manure fertilizers (from our livestock), deep mulches, hand digging ( unless it gets away from me, in which case the rototiller comes in mighty handy.) And we truck the food nowhere except into our mouths.

[kjmclark]

I think you guys are saying it the wrong way.

Organic farming will feed the world. But it won't feed the machines.

...And since organic farming/gardening will be all we have left, anyone who isn't fed by organic farming/gardening won't be around to count. This shouldn't give anyone the warm fuzzies.

Now, we ants just need a way to build biotic, organic soil (I vote for terra preta and compost!), and grow our own food on it, and keep our fellow human grasshoppers from jumping in and eating it. Heinberg is right in pointing out the need for thousands of new farmers. There just aren't many of us willing to consider it. Most people will just walk in to the undefended fields and take what they need.

[Heineken]

I trueley believe "IF" Americans were to devote a large percentage of their lawn space to the production of biofuels there would be no impending crisis.

No way. The average American probably uses more energy in a day than their lawns could provide in a year, certainly a month.

And, can you see Americans quitting their jobs to tend, harvest, and process their biofuel lawns? (And to do their "organic" gardening?) What else would get done?

All that is work, work, work, as KillJoy, who knows of what he speaks, notes. Work, and time. And the harder you work physically, the more food you need to do the work.

EROEI, my friend. It repeatedly gets lost in the shuffle of these discussions.

[manu]

If you want to help people become aware of what Monsanto is doing go to: organicconsumers.org

[denverdave]

I trueley believe "IF" Americans were to devote a large percentage of their lawn space to the production of biofuels there would be no impending crisis.

If Americans were to devote a large percentage of their lawn space to the productions of biofuels, they would quickly realize that it's not worth the effort, and that walking, biking or binding their legs together with 20 pounds of heavy chain and draggiing themselves by their arms is easier and more time-efficient.

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Good day, from Pheba, from the farm:
This is a subject I can respond to. I do a lot of lurking because I
don't want to post when I am unsure of my knowledge. But, I know farming. I have been around farms and farming most of my
life. Here is the bottom line:
Organic farming in the manner that most people think of as organic farming will not feed 6-1/2 billion people.
Organic farming methods won't even come close.
There is a "back to the earth" vision, and it is a beautiful one.
Move to the country get some goats and chickens, and raise a
garden. Great.
For the most part, this dream doesn't even feed the people
who live on the farm. never mind feeding a large population.
Has anybody done the math to figure out how many acres of
potatoes are needed to feed a family of four for one winter?
My father in law raises red potatoes (they are good). He brought
me a portion of the crop. He does this every summer.
I have one 5 gallon bucket of red potatoes. These last me about
3 weeks. I eat a lot of potatoes. My father in law plants only as many potato plants as he can properly take care of.
Planting a whole acre of potatoes is a great ideal.
Who is going to cultivate an acre of potatoes? We do not have
the petroleum based equipment to cultivate an acre of potatoes.
Most people don't have a clue how hard our ancestors worked to produce food.
The entire crop of potatoes lasts us about 2-3 months total. (and that is with me cheating and buying storebought) Canned tomatoes and green beans usually do last through the winter, but that entails a lot of work from the vine to the can.
I can only speak of North America, but I am almost certain that global soil is in as poor a condition as U.S. farmland.
When our ancestors first put a shovel in the soil of this continent, average topsoil depth was 12 to 24 inches.
Average topsoil depth now is 4 to 6 inches, with 4 being a more realistic number. We feed millions upon millions of people with 4 inches of topsoil.
Believe me, if we could raise all of the worlds food on idealic organic farms, I would be thrilled.
but, that is not possible.
There is farmland in Iowa that is producing 200 bushels of corn per acre. That is phenomenal, and there is no way on earth that any organic farmer can get even 100 bushels per acre. (average corn yield before the green revolution was about 60 bushels per acre)
This astounding yield comes from input of synthetic nitrogen fertilizer, pesticide use, and heavy petroleum based machine use.
The corn seed is being planted closer and closer together every
season. To achieve growth, more and more synthetic nitrogen fertilizer is needed for plant growth.
I believe it may have been Kunstler or Heinberg who said that today's farming is just pouring petroleum on a thin layer of top soil. Well, that's exactly what farming is.
Yes, there are small plots here and there lovingly tended by organic growers. These wonderful farmers see the future, and are caring for the topsoil. By the way, by small plot I mean a few hundred acres. Most people just don't get how large this problem is.
The problem is that there is not enough of that lovingly tended acreage in existence to feed 6-1/2 billion people.
It takes about 500 years for nature to create an inch of topsoil.
It is absolutely vital for farmers to protect what topsoil we still have. When it is gone, we all die.
Farmers consistently use no till farming to protect the topsoil. Tilling the earth causes erosion and topsoil loss.
For no till drill to be successful large amounts of pesticides must be used to kill weeds and any existing crop.
The ground is sprayed to kill existing plants.
A machine drills a tiny hole just large enough for the seed, the seed is automatically dropped into the ground and covered back up. No tilling, Minimal soil loss. Extensive use of synthetic fertilizers, and petroleum based pesticides (herbicides).
Could organic farming feed one billion across the globe, maybe, but I doubt it. Organic farming did feed one billion people in 1900, but the topsoil had not been eroded down to 4-6 inches. The great dust bowl of the 1930's had not happened. (the U.S. is not the only nation that has had a "Dust Bowl"). The environment was not totally trashed like it is now. Global warming was not creating problems with drought, and freaky weather.
Most important, people knew better.
Good grief, most people I know eat at McDonald's at least once a week. I am the only person I know among my friends that cooks food from scratch. Most food is frozen, shipped, etc. People are just totally clueless.
Something else, and I apologize, this is off subject, the state of Missouri utilized 18 percent of the corn crop for ethanol in 2006.
we have totally gone insane.
As I see it, the most difficult concept to understand with all of this, Peak Oil, farming, etc. is just how big the numbers are. I have struggled with this for about 5 years. Most people only view the world through their own small reality. It takes a big mental leap to see a much bigger picture and encompass the reality of feeding 6 billion people, using 85 million barrels of oil per day.
We have become lost in the numbers. Just how many people is 6-1/2 billion. I can't envision it. I have problems envisioning 85 million barrels of anything. I had to use a 5 gallon bucket of potatoes before I realized that they would not last that long.
From where I see it, on the farm, we just can't do it.
By the way, Ruth Stout wrote a book on heavy mulch gardening in the 1970's. Find it, read it, and you won't need a tiller.
Pheba, from the farm.
I also reccomend the "The Omnivore's Dilemma", and The Worst Hard Time" for a better understanding of agriculture and food in the U.S.
Pheba, from the farm.

[steam_cannon]

The dandelions serve two functions.1)Because they have a very long tap root(several feet long)and will grow damned near anywhere,they have the ability to break up and loosen extremely hard soils.2)Because the tap root is so long it can get too and bring up water several feet deep,something most other plants can't do,in the process it not only waters itself,but brings moister to the surface that can be used by other nearby plants...

...Divide your garden into easily manageable plots,3x3,2x3,4x4,in the most convenient combination with paths in between.

With the correct use of "weeds" and rainwater collection/storage,the need to water can be kept to a minimum.

That's brilliant! Personally I have been thinking of planting dandelions as greens and for wine... But you're right, their roots are like fast growing tree roots. And once they've done their work softening the soil and you want to plant there, maybe just put a small tarp (3x3,2x3,4x4) for a few months before planting, if you want the area clear of other plants. And your idea about planting them in with the crops to bring up moisture sounds good too. A field full of rotting tap roots and fresh tap roots should be a lot more moist and full of worms! Just planting dandelions in with a garden would probably do it a lot of good.

Regarding can Organic Farming feed the world? My first thought is that infinite population growth can't be sustained by any system. So growth is out of the picture. And I don't think it can be ramped up in time. Shifting workers from cities onto small farms? I doubt that will happen any time soon. I think first there will have to be some major starvation and empty shelves at Walmart before people start using their hands.

So IMO Organic Farming may be one of the bright points of the future, one of the best things our civilization will leave behind. But whatever good it does, it's not going to keep things running the way we are used to.

[Ludi]

Needless to say, and with apologies to Ludi, I agree with pstarr and the other deriders of this ridiculous notion.

The world's bloated human population would never have arisen without the buckets of easy food provided by our good buddies oil, NG, and coal, and it will not survive their waning.

Yes, organic farming COULD feed the world---a world with a much, much smaller population.
Aye, there's the rub.

It's ok, H. No need to apologise. It isn't happening now, people are not in general growing their own food, land is not distributed in a way to make that happen, nor likely will it. We all need to be mindful of the difference between "COULD" and "WILL" and "CAN" and "ARE."


I see a lot of "COULD" and "CAN" but almost no "WILL" and "ARE."


But I will not give up promoting helpful information.


No matter how ridiculous the notion.

[Ludi]

Has anybody done the math to figure out how many acres of
potatoes are needed to feed a family of four for one winter?

Aproximately 1/10 of an acre is needed to grow potatoes for four people for 1 year's consumption if potatoes make up the majority of the diet.


Reference: "One Circle" by David Duhon


This book contains a great deal of information about growing complete diets on the smallest amount of land.