[BabyPeanut]

Saving Electricity

[BabyPeanut]

Find out how much energy your household items need.

http://www.kimcoweb.com/calculator/homewattage.html

[Rickenbacker]

we waste so much oil on bullshit, unneccesary packaging for easter eggs, plastic for toys that are useless by the following christmas, more than one car for one person etc. I know removing these things would a) require a bit of heavy handed interfering govt policy, and would b) affect the economy in various ways, but has anyone got any idea how much we can save if we have a government enforced policy of efficient usage? I'm looking for numbers ideally. Can we stave off the crash long enough for this sort of thing to sort us out?
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8385911/

Is there an emergency efficiency plan waiting to kick into action?

[Wildwell]

50% isn't impossible

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4000225.stm

There's a catch. Use of oil is going up rapidly though cheap flights, more use of cars and globalisation. There are cases where bottle tops are made in one country, sauce in another, the ingredients in yet another and packaged in another. There is a lot of excess transport. Why is this? In short, it's cheaper. Cheap labour markets abroad, cheap oil, and cheaper methods of production have enabled this.

1. We could re-localise markets, but are people prepared to pay extra and just eat seasonal local food?

2. Are people prepared to fly less? There might be a possibility for further efficiency in aircraft design, but it's all back of the envelope stuff at the moment. And generally, in practice all it would mean is airlines would offer cheaper flights and people would fly more.

3. More efficient cars might be possible, but it's likely that people would just use them more as they can go further, creating congestion which wastes fuel and not really dropping the demand much. This can already be seen in statistics comparing the increased annual mileage of diesel cars with petrol ones.


So if you are prepared to drive less, fly less and buy more expensive local products then yes. Whether everyone else does is another matter, you saw how savage Roger Savage got with me on another thread.

Post peak, it might be possible to couple efficiency as the supply diminishes. However, the supply may drop away faster than changes can be implemented, in fact, with the average life of cars and planes, that’s highly likely. Demand may also rise quickly in places like China, India etc. Place your bets.

[Rickenbacker]

Yeah that old nutshell, we can make things more efficient but that will just make people use more, two fridge-freezers thjat are twice as efficient as the old ones, energy saving lightbulbs that are left on all night to 'scare the burglars off', an extra car, holidays further afield etc.

Without some sort of intervention I imagine were accelerating towards the crash, but with a bit of govt intervention to artificially (sneakily?) raise prices and destroy a bit of demand, or even the market itself taking care of that, have we got a 'luxury buffer' that will allow us to stave off PO for another 30 years without starving to death or running out of plastic?

I'd be interested in figures showing what percentage of our oil/gas energy is used for the various industries, hypothetically, if vehilcle petroleum is 90% and fertiliser is 0.1% then Im sure we'll be able to implement plans that avoid the worst case scenarios.

[Leanan]

Here's some info for the U.S., from MSNBC.

The energy pie:



Residential:



Industrial:



Transportation:



Commercial:

[Wildwell]

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBASE/s ... ?vlnk=5690

Here's the UK, but it's fossil fuel use (Coal, oil, gas) for 93 sectors.

As a rule 70% of oil use is transport in developed nations.

http://www.dti.gov.uk/energy/inform/ene ... ef2004.pdf

Here's a wider energy brief.

[turmoil]

another end use chart. dunno what the consensus on this source is but it's interesting.



Source

[Wildwell]

Road traffic

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/d ... 5789-1.gif

Air traffic

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/d ... 031659.pdf

The consensus is, increased road and aviation traffic is a problem. Bottom line is: It depends whether you want to keep your cheap foreign breaks and door-to-door mobility. As I said, the choices are above. To my mind everything centres around technology/or those choices.

Bit more difficult for the Amercans as there isn't much choice to internal flights and in suburbia.

Gas and home heating is also an issue, but could be solved by micro generation.

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/su/energy/5.html

Some quite interesting stats. Notice the fuel use in 1950? There were no motorways in those days, quite a few inefficient buses and a few trucks, the well off had cars. The country was 90% powered by coal.

Sensibly the choice is to ramp up wind and nuclear like mad with some clean coal technology, localise markets where possible and ramp down car and air use which can be covered by bio fuels and get the rest of the rail network electrified where possible. In the meantime make energy efficient lighting and appliances mandatory and encourage micro generation.

[aahala]

Is there an emergency efficiency plan waiting to kick into action?

As far as the US is concerned, I don't doubt there's some obscure plan
collecting dust in an unheard of lower level government agency.

The US response since about 1981 has been less than excellent. Several
times the congress has voted down prosposals to increase car efficiency,
the Production Tax Credit to subsidize renewable energy like wind was
allowed to lapse in 2000, 2002, and 2004. When President Reagan
replaced Carter, he had the solar cells Carter had placed on the White
House removed. But just about every year we have been successful
in providing additional grants and tax benefits for coal, oil and natural gas.

And of course, we didn't want anything to do with the Kyoto treaty.

[Rickenbacker]

cheers for the stats, greatly appreciated. Ill get reading. Before I even start, looks like reduced petroleum-based transport should be able to pick up a lot of of the flak. Time to get those trains built!

[Wildwell]

The good news, is 'Oil based transport' future was debated in the house of Lords in this context.

'My object tonight is to consider, and to invite the Government to consider, the strategic implications of a sustained world shortage of oil and particularly the implications of that for Britain'

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 308-23.htm

The bad news is the system has been screwed over by the last two governments, so this sort of investment for getting round these problems has a nil chance of succeeding until a major re-think post peak - which would mean integrated trains, trucks, buses and fuel credits for cars. So, in my view Britain is going to hit a transport energy crunch and a 'nervous breakdown' at some point when this stuff kicks off. If there was data transparency in the oil business and we had 5-10 years to plan, there’s a really obvious way to solve the problem I can think of.

In reality, some sort of civil control and rationing would be highly likely and a really difficult period for a few years. But the world will go through this with some heart stopping moments, probably emerge muddling through with a different economic system and sustainability laws. Not predicting die off, but there will be a lot of unhappy people about.

[grabby]

found a good list of energy conversion units may be helpful if you want to make a car run on coal:

Electricity:
1 KW = 3,413 Btu/hr

Natural gas:
1 Cubic Foot of Natural Gas = 1030 Btu's
1 CCF = 100 Cu Ft = 1 Therm = 103,000 Btu's
1 MCF = 1,000 Cu Ft = 10 Therms = 1,034,000 Btu's = 1.034 MMBtu's

Propane:
1 Gal Propane = 91,600 Btu's
1 Cu Ft Propane = 2,500 Btu's

Gasoline:
1 Gal Gasoline (mid grade) = 125,000 Btu's

Ethanol:
1 Gal Ethanol = 76,000 Btu's

Fuel Oil:
1 Gal of #2 Fuel Oil = 139,000 Btu's
1 Gal of #4 Fuel Oil = 145,000 Btu's
1 Gal of #6 Fuel Oil = 150,000 Btu's

1 Barrel of Oil = 42 Gallons

1 Btu = 252 calories
1 Btu= .293 watt

1 ton of refrigeration = 12,000 Btu/hr

1lb residential garbage = 2,500 Btu
1lb coal = 12,000 Btu
1lb wood = 3,500 Btu

1hp = 746 watts
1hp = 33, 479 Btu/hr (boiler)
1hp = 33,000 foot-lbs./min
1hp = 42,440 Btu/min.

1 watt = 3.412 Btu
1 kilowatt = 1,000 watts
1 kilowatt = 1.341 horsepower

1000 kilowatts = 1 Megawatt


All of the following fuels are equivalent to 1,000,000 Btu's.


Electricity 293.083 kWh
(3412 Btu/kWh)

Natural Gas: 1 MCF, 10 therms or 1,000 cubic feet

Coal: 83.34 pounds
@ 12,000 Btu/pound

Propane 10.917 gallons
@ 91,000 Btu/gallon

Gasoline 8.0 gallons
@125,000 Btu/gallon

Fuel Oil #2 7.194 gallons
@ 139,000 Btu/gallon

Fuel Oil #6 6.67 gallons
@ 150,000 Btu/gallon

Wood 285.7 pounds
@ 3,500 Btu/pound

[Antimatter]

1 watt = 3.412 Btu

A Watt is a measure of power, BTU's are a measure of energy. Most of the others look right though but I'd like to see sources.

[Frank]

Should probably be 1 w-hr = 3.412 BTU?

[kmann]

Energy Conversion

[WisJim]

I've been trying to find the conversion for gallons of LP (liquified propane) to cubic feet of LP, and the comparison of LP to Natural gas (in both therms and cubic feet) to electricity to kerosene to #2 fuel oil. I'm sure that I had a site bookmarked that had the info, but for the life of me, I can't find it now.

The figures that Grabby posted don't all correspond to some of the info that I have found, and I would like another source, with maybe references to help me decide on the accuracy of various sources--I suspect the accuracy of some of the other info I have come across, as some was from web sites for electric or gas companies, and I suspect that appliance or user efficiency was ignored at times when appropriate to make an energy source look better.

[grabby]

FOR BUTANE
1 pound=21221 BTU
1 Therm of Butane = 4.714 pounds
1 Therm is 100,000 BTU.
1 THERM of BUTANE is 30.64 cubic feet
1 THERM BUTANE 0.98 gallons
1 Gallon liquified BUTANE is 102,032 BTU
1 cubic foot is 3280 BTU



FOR PROPANE
1 Pound = 21,591 BTU
1 Gallon is 91,690 BTU in liquid form.
1 therm of PROPANE weighs 4.714 pounds.
1 Therm of PROPANE = 0.98 gallons liquified,
1 Therm PROPANE=30.64 cubic feet of Gas.
1.530 Specific gravity liquified.

Propane 21,591 BTU/pound
91,690 BTU/gallon

Butane 21,221 BTU/pound
102,032 BTU/gallon

Gasoline 20,930 BTU/pound
110,250 BTU/gallon

Fuel Oil #1 16,960 BTU/pound
135,425 BTU/gallon

Diesel 18,500 BTU/pound
142,800 BTU/gallon

[donshan]

This EIA on-line calculator is very useful and the page includes a lot of definitions and some examples of energy calculations:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts ... lator.html

This on-line calculator allows comparison of various fuels for heating and permits entry of the efficiency of the heating device.

http://www.hearth.com/articles/47_0_1_0_M7.html


Using these two calculators together allows a lot of calculations without as many risks of a math error vs. using just an ordinary calculator.

[Bleep]

http://turbulence.org/Works/oilstandard ... shots.html