MrMambo wrote:I would basically like to know if it is just economic pragmatism of lowest price production that has led to china having 97% of production or if comes directly from differences in the size of the mineral deposits.
Dezakin wrote:This is kind of silly. The depletion curve for minerals doesn't match the depeltion curve for fossil fuels.
emailking wrote:Dezakin wrote:This is kind of silly. The depletion curve for minerals doesn't match the depeltion curve for fossil fuels.
It does if you have to use the depleting fossil fuels to extract the depleting minerals.
Dezakin wrote:emailking wrote:Dezakin wrote:This is kind of silly. The depletion curve for minerals doesn't match the depeltion curve for fossil fuels.
It does if you have to use the depleting fossil fuels to extract the depleting minerals.
But you dont. See uranium.
emailking wrote:Dezakin wrote:emailking wrote:Dezakin wrote:This is kind of silly. The depletion curve for minerals doesn't match the depeltion curve for fossil fuels.
It does if you have to use the depleting fossil fuels to extract the depleting minerals.
But you dont. See uranium.
Uranium isn't really in the scope of that article. It's main application is releasing energy. Extracting minerals "all the way down to the mantle" requires fossil fuels.
Dezakin wrote:No it doesnt. Mining equipment can run on electricity, or diesel fuel manufactured from limestone, water, and nuclear process heat.
joewp wrote:how does electricity run one of these
joewp wrote:and what's the EROEI for turning limestone, water and np heat into diesel?
joewp wrote:Dezakin wrote:No it doesnt. Mining equipment can run on electricity, or diesel fuel manufactured from limestone, water, and nuclear process heat.
Do you have a link for these claims? I'm skeptical about both, in the electricity case, how does electricity run one of these:
and what's the EROEI for turning limestone, water and np heat into diesel? Keep in mind you're going to have to use some of that diesel to bring the limestone, water and nukes together.
Will you have enough usable energy to make it worthwhile?
By the way, did you know that water is a fairly restricted resource too.
Oh yeah, you think water is just a derivative of energy. So how much energy goes into creating this water for making this diesel? subtract that from your production too. Don't forget the energy required to mine the uranium and to transport it to where all these miracles are taking place.
Guys like you are always looking for a free lunch. The laws of thermodynamics basically say there's no such thing as a free luch.
I even think fusion will never work, because you will probably have to put more energy into it than you get back.
I know, way off topic, but I'd like you, Dez to show some evidence for your cornucopian dreams other than "No it doesn't".
If you have any...
Dezakin wrote:A power cord? I'm sure we could engineer a solution if we had to.
EROEI is a fairly useless concept except for determining actual physical limits. The modern world is more concerned with money returned on money invested.
Never did. The energy content of uranium is so staggeringly large, that you can mill it from granite at 10ppm for light water reactors if you have to for postive energy return. Transport costs of the finished fuel is insignificant, given 1 ton will give you 10MW for a year. This is before we enter breeder reactor territory.
Where am I suggesting anything that violates any of the laws. I strongly suspect I understand thermodynamics better than you are implying I do.
I
Theres this giant ball that comes up once a day that just sort of hangs in the sky that says you're wrong. Then theres some folks that received severe sunburn at bikini atoll that would also disagree with you. The only question is how small you can scale it, and how cost competitive it is. 100 megaton pulsed inertial confinement might be great if our reactor core is several miles across.
What do you want? Links on energy payback of uranium in LWR? In breeder reactors? Thorium? Cost breakdown of a possible limestone synthetic fuel/cement plant?
joewp wrote:Dezakin wrote:A power cord? I'm sure we could engineer a solution if we had to.
I'm sure you're sure. With respect to Doly's remark that electric motors can be very powerful, it's the power source I'm concerned about. How big would the batteries to run that thing be? Notice that even with diesel fuel, the payload portion of that behemoth is smaller than a normal dumptruck, as a percentage of total volume. Batteries are less energy dense than diesel, if I'm not mistaken.
You see? You're only considering the transport cost for the fuel. What about transporting all the raw materials to build the reactor in the first place, Like many optimists, you're assuming the fossil fuel infrastructure for your "alternative" energy scheme.
I think you're assuming current fossil fuel infrastructure to make your scheme work. Like your 10 ppm mining example, you still have to pump it out of the ground and transport it. Where does the energy going to come from for that, a nuke plant at every uranium mine?
Ah yes, good ol' Mr. Sun. I'm not sure, but I suspect that the gravitational energy that shoves those nuclei together might be quite close to the fusion energy he puts out. I've googled many ways but haven't found any studies to confirm or refute my suspicions.
By the way, what do you plan to do with all the pretty glowing waste products?
That would be good for a start. Next tackle the problems of siting all these monsters, dealing with the waste, and dealing with all the lawsuits parents of greenish, three-toed babies will file.
I know, I know, you're sure we'll think of something...
joewp wrote:With respect to Doly's remark that electric motors can be very powerful, it's the power source I'm concerned about. How big would the batteries to run that thing be?
joewp wrote:You see? You're only considering the transport cost for the fuel. What about transporting all the raw materials to build the reactor in the first place
joewp wrote:I'm not sure, but I suspect that the gravitational energy that shoves those nuclei together might be quite close to the fusion energy he puts out.
So if gravity is what causes nuclear fusion
emailking wrote:So if gravity is what causes nuclear fusion
This is a minor point in the context of this thread, but it is the internal temperature of the sun that causes nuclear fusion. Not gravity.
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