[airwalk]

How much electricity would it take to power a house in a northern (north shore of Lake Ontario/Eastern Ontario) climate.

Not only lights and appliances. I mean water heating for consumption and heating as well.

I want to produce my own electricity through wind. solar, hydro and am wondering how much juice I would need for a 1,500 squar foot-ish house.

Any suggestions let me know.

[FoxV]

well I'm in a single story 1200sqft house (finished basement) in Cornwall and I'm currently at 22Kwh/day (pretty much constant all year) for a family of 4

that does not include heat, hot water and cooking but a woodstove and solar heater can help with most of that (not to mention proper insulation)

but does include AC, all new appliances (I've had joy of having to replace all my appliances within the last two years ) and CFL everywhere

sorry if this is not exactly the info you're looking for, but thought I'd throw it in just in case it might help derive an estimate for you

[airwalk]

I'm actually really glad you posted.

The Kingston-area is where I'm looking to set up shop so it's not that far from you.

It's nice to know that 22kw includes A/C.

Ideally I'd like to have an electric hot water boiler...I guess I'd have to find out how much juice that uses.

[shaunpagan]

I'm in Wisconsin and I use anywhere from 375 to 550 kwh per month for a family of 4. I heat my home and my water with gas. If you are building new, I'd recommend that you look into a ground source heat pump for your home heating and cooling, and water heating needs. You could still do a solar hot water preheat for the water too. My in-laws in MN installed a heat pump a couple of years ago and their winter heat bills went from $400+ using fuel oil to $80 tops using the heat pump. This is in an old farm house though, I'd suspect that a new efficient home would be much less.

[FoxV]

Ideally I'd like to have an electric hot water boiler...I guess I'd have to find out how much juice that uses.

if I convert my nat gas usage for the hot water tank to kwh, it comes out to around 7kwh/day.

Thats with a insulated tank, reduced thermostate and includes burning losses (electric boilers are more efficient)

7Kwh is pretty expensive to produce with solar and wind (although the East end of Lake Ontario does get some nice winds). I still would recommend looking into solar heating for the hot water

[FoxV]

If you are building new, I'd recommend that you look into a ground source heat pump for your home heating and cooling, and water heating needs.

also don't forget "Passive solar cooling" (discussed here, and easily found with google)

nothing is more efficient than free (although its only possible with a new home design)

[nethawk]

You definitely want non-electric heat, or at least not resistance heat.

Our house has decent insulation, new windows, fairly new water heater, etc. and is about 1500 square feet with electric everything. The house itself is part of a development that was built in the late 70s when a 2200 MW nuclear plant was being built nearby that promised too-cheap-to-meter electricity. That went over like a lead balloon.

On very cold days, we easily top 100 kWh/day (a cost of $10). The thermostats are set at 65 degrees Farenheit, and the basement heat usually is not even on.

Using the wood stove easily halves that, and wood is heating only the air, not our water. Air/ground source heat pumps, solar, etc. all work as well.

If we use 50 kWh/day to heat, then that's about 3400 * 50 = 170,000 BTUs per day. Of course more than that is used, because the heat produced by the computers, TVs, lights, etc. contributes to heating the air.

You mentioned hydro. If you can build a big enough hydro plant, then all-electric may not be a bad idea. Hydropower is pretty consistent, cheap, and about as clean as it gets, provided the system does not totally disrupt the body of water that is powering it. The Norwegians derive nearly all of their electricity from hydropower, it's no wonder they have the world's highest per-capita usage of electricity (2x that of Americans)...because hydropower is hard to beat where it's available.

If solar is the main power source it makes sense just to use the solar heat directly rather than go from solar to electricity then to heat.

[strider3700]

I'm all electric, Baseboard heaters no AC

house is about 800 sqft.

-10 is the world is ending cold around here normally about 5 above in the winter, summer is about 20-25 depending on the month.

I use 35 kwh/day in winter when heating, I use about 20 kwh/day in the summer.

I've spent a lot of time bringing this down I I used to use 54 kwh/day in the winters.

To go entirely off grid I figure I need to add a woodburner to heat the house and hotwater in the winters, I need solar hotwater in the summer (no winter sun in my yard) I could then add solar panels for the summer electric ( hopefully "only" need about 1 kw of panels ) and a wind turbine for the winters. I still doubt I'd be off grid entirely but I'd come close to zeroing the bill during the summer.

In a cold climate like you're talking either be rich or give up on solar electic heating.

[FoxV]

just did an estimate of converting all my nat gas usage to kwh and it comes out to adding 50Kwh/day. So that would pretty much be on top of my actuall 22Kwh/day electric bill.

So setting up a system to handle 70 - 75 kwh/day (150kwh peak?) would be very difficult and expensive. So I think all electric is out of the question as well

however you do have good wind resources and perhaps even a Wave generator could work as well. But unless you're within the St. Lawrence, you will not have much water current to work with (unlike where I live, 100m away from a 20knt current that I don't have access to )

edit---
btw, if you're next to a body of water, a heat pump can be very inexpensive and extremely efficient. For about the the cost of an AC and a furnace combined you get almost free AC and reliable heat for 1/3rd the power consumption

[airwalk]

In a cold climate like you're talking either be rich or give up on solar electic heating.

I'm a believer in the long gradual decline of PO (hoping for it anyway...OK--PRAYING for it).

So I'm looking at this electric home idea as a medium to longer term thing...maybe 15 years down the road. Hopefully I can work on it between now and then.

[strider3700]

I'm a believer in the long gradual decline of PO (hoping for it anyway...OK--PRAYING for it).

So I'm looking at this electric home idea as a medium to longer term thing...maybe 15 years down the road. Hopefully I can work on it between now and then.

I'm not following your logic. Will you be looking to switch away from all electric in the long term? Or are you hoping you can add enough alternative energy over the years to cover your required usage?

Rough guess is you'll need at least a 9kw solar array to handle usuage (thats guessing at 6 hours/day sun) that should cost about 40,000 for the panels, then add all the batteries and the inverters... maybe $100,000 would get you set up. If you remove the air and water heating from the equation then things are much more reasonable. This equipment is only going to get more expensive.

[WisJim]

just a thought here. I don't believe anyone has ever attempted off-grid, solar-panel air conditioning. It just isn't part of the paradigm. For cooling (and heating) you might want to look at siting, insulation, thermal mass, roof lines, and overhangs (to block the summer sun.)

Although it generally isn't considered practical, I do know of a few folks who are off grid and have sized their PV systems large enough to require no back up generator. This means that some times, typically in summer, they have a lot of surplus electricity, and they use a room air conditioner in their well insulated homes as a dump load to use the surplus power rather than totally waste it. It isn't a practical situation for most folks, though.