[Sixstrings]

New York Governor Raising Minimum Wage for State Employees

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo joined a throng of union workers and other supporters of a $15 minimum wage in lower Manhattan on Tuesday and formally announced he would be using his executive authority to make sure it went up for at least one group of workers — state employees.

"This issue is very simple," he told the crowd, whose cheering and enthusiasm was in no way diminished by being outside in cold, damp weather. "This is about basic fairness and basic justice."

Cuomo's announcement came on a day of nationwide protests and rallies, as fast-food workers and other low-wage workers called for the $15 wage and for the right to unionize. They also made it clear that their political support in next year's elections depended on candidates taking on their issues.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/york-governor-raising-minimum-wage-state-employees-35109075

A strong Democratic president, representing working and middle class people, could do the same exact thing. By executive order, and that would help shift the private sector if the federal government had a $15 min wage for all federal employees AND require that of any contractors to the government.

Obama could do this right now if he wanted to, or seven years go.

A President Sanders could do this on his first day in office.

A President Clinton could raise wages too, if enough people support Sanders and she thinks she has to.

News report from NY:

Andrew Cuomo Is Giving New York State Workers a $15 Minimum Wage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLbIGWtyiLU

Eric Garner's mother is part of the raise wages movement. She says that "racial and economic justice go hand in hand, we need to raise the wages."

And one fast food striker said "it's easy to say to just move up in the world but the thing is, people have to make enough money to survive, while they're moving up."

[Sixstrings]

Thousands march in L.A. as part of nationwide call to raise minimum wage

Several thousand low-wage workers and their supporters marched through downtown Los Angeles to drum beats and whistles Tuesday afternoon calling for a $15 minimum wage and a union.

The march was part of a nationwide "Fight for 15" protest in which workers from 270 cities were expected to walk out in what organizers hoped would be the fast-food industry's largest ever strike.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fight-for-15-protest-20151110-htmlstory.html

Fast Food Strikes Hit Cities Throughout The Country
The campaign says workers earning less than $15 per hour are “a voting bloc that can no longer be ignored.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fast-food-strikes-protests_5641e226e4b0b24aee4bb262

[Plantagenet]

Governments don't have to worry about keeping their costs low---they can always just raise taxes.

But the private sector is different---they face competition and they are constantly tinkering and streamlining to cut their costs. The fast food industry is going to see massive disruption by technology over the next 10 years. You can already see it starting----the counter clerks are going to replaced by robots, and the food preparation is going to become more mechanized and automated as well.

[Cog]

enjoy your unemployment because here it comes

[Sixstrings]

The fast food industry is going to see massive disruption by technology over the next 10 years. You can already see it starting----the counter clerks are going to replaced by robots, and the food preparation is going to become more mechanized and automated as well.

That's true Plant, but..

"Let American workers starve and wear rags or else we'll replace you with a robot" isn't a campaign platform I'll ever support.

Cuz the thing is -- the robot will always be better, and always cheaper.

And there will always be some kind of jobs in the USA so for whatever jobs there are, the minimum wage needs to be restored to a living wage and actually it should be pegged to inflation too so this is never an issue again.

If computer self checkouts, robot workers and AI software avatar customer service reps take all the jobs.. then that's something we'll have to deal with anyway, a human being could work for free and still not be cheaper than a robot.

Robots and AI are going to take all the jobs anyway, any forward thinking person on a doomer forum has already known this ten years ago, the writing's on the wall. We can't let ourselves and our families and our children just wear rags and starve and go hungry in the future, all for the robots, we have to take care of the people regardless of robot workers.

[Sixstrings]

enjoy your unemployment because here it comes

Conservatives have been saying that for the last fifty years, cripes they've been saying it for CENTURIES actually going all the way back to the days of JP Morgan and Rockefeller, and plantation owners before that, and feudal royalty and their peasants before that.

I'm sorry Cog, that old line doesn't get any more true with age.

[Plantagenet]

We can't let ourselves and our families and our children just wear rags and starve and go hungry in the future, all for the robots, we have to take care of the people regardless of robot workers.

Why settle for unemployment or welfare or a job as a fast food worker?

Fast food workers should be striving to get a better job, rather then settling for being fast food workers for their whole lives.

Thats why we have trade schools and business schools and community colleges and colleges and universities.

People need work hard and go to school and educate themselves to the level that they can outperform a fast food robot in order to earn more than a fast food robot.

cheers!

[Tanada]

Time to wake up Six, we are on the edge of Peak Oil, once the decline becomes obvious everyone with a job will be lucky to keep it. The simple fact is, unless you are in a vital industry your job will rapidly lose its importance to your neighbors and government. Wasteful consumption supports about 80 percent of work in the USA. All that waste gets squeezed out of the system once we pass world peak.

[Sixstrings]

Time to wake up Six, we are on the edge of Peak Oil, once the decline becomes obvious everyone with a job will be lucky to keep it. The simple fact is, unless you are in a vital industry your job will rapidly lose its importance to your neighbors and government. Wasteful consumption supports about 80 percent of work in the USA. All that waste gets squeezed out of the system once we pass world peak.

We're at peak consumer demand and then falling demand and demand destruction, because the 1% have all the money.

More money needs to be in the pockets of the 99% so that demand will increase and they'll want more oil. (which regarding CC, many say the fall of oil is a good idea)

But the decline of oil is not due to lack of supply.. fracking has been a boom, the tar sands were a boom, there's so much oil now that it collapsed the market from oversupply.

The peak oil story is what I always suspected it was -- the "collapse" is from the super rich concentrating all money to themselves. Which may or may not be a good thing for "the planet," that people become poorer, but that's another thread.

[ROCKMAN]

Six - I don't philosophically disagree with raising the min wage to $15/hr. Likewise I don’t disagree with doubling the current govt tax on motor fuels. In both case there will be loser and winners. But upping the min wage will certainly mean some employers who can’t pay it will lay workers off or cut their hours at least. How many? I couldn’t guess and I don’t think one else can put forward a credible number. But some number will lose their jobs. And that might small enough to justify the improvement of the remaining workers. But that statistical fact isn’t going to make the newly unemployed feel good about their sacrifice.

And as far as: “And there will always be some kind of jobs in the USA”: I don’t think the current 7.9 million US unemployed folks, as estimated by the govt, would agree with you.

[Sixstrings]

Why settle for unemployment or welfare or a job as a fast food worker?

In my state, a LOT of the jobs don't pay much above minimum. Office work, clerical, dental assistants, most construction things, even many government jobs, etc. etc., the standard is like around $12 an hour. And then it's a lot of tourism, which doesn't pay anything.

You're against the living wage, and I'm for it. You can cast your vote and I'll cast mine.

About ten years ago or so, the voters of my state passed -- by referendum -- about a dollar above the federal minimum and then the best thing we did was ***peg that to inflation***. So, it's a problem solved. It's still too low, nobody can live on eight and change anymore than seven and change, but AT LEAST not as bad as much of the South.

And at least whatever happens with inflation, Republicans can't just ignore it and let the min wage get inflated away -- the min wage in my state was PEGGED TO INFLATION. That's the key point there, the best thing that can be done with a min wage law.

I'm for a higher min wage, I guess you're against it. But you know, the momentum and movement is growing on the liberal side of the income disparity issue.

[Sixstrings]

But upping the min wage will certainly mean some employers who can’t pay it will lay workers off or cut their hours at least. How many? I couldn’t guess and I don’t think one else can put forward a credible number. But some number will lose their jobs.

The important thing is that it needs to be at the federal level. When it's at the city council and state level, then that's when jobs go out to lower wage places.

From what I understand, studies show it's a net neutral as far as jobs lost but also JOBS CREATED. Better paid workers, have more money to spend at businesses. Better paid workers, means more customers.

My own theory is that it's only a net neutral on jobs just because it's different in every state / only a particular city raising it and then yeah you get some jobs flying out to the city nextdoor where the wage is lower.

But yet it's still a net neutral.

Make it nationwide, and it would be a NET POSITIVE and create jobs, and then also you'd have to change how we do trade agreements to stop offshoring more jobs and then everything would be great and we're truly be back on track to "making america great again" like it was many decades ago. With higher wages for the middle and working class, and a broad middle class and that's where the money in America is concentrated in.

If a $15 wage hike got passed, it would be like New York did and would be over 6 years.. so, not the end of the world.. the minimum should have already been raised to $12 by now but the thing is -- Republicans just stopped being how they used to be, like old HW Bush and Bob Dole, for some reason like fifteen years ago they just stopped doing the normal things like raising the min wage every few years.

The BEST thing to do would be what Australia did -- raise it to $15 and then PEG IT TO INFLATION. Now THAT is good government, that just does something smart about something and it's the right thing to do for people and it's not the middle and working class just being suckers all the time and they actually have politicians that do things to help people out, and yes their billionaires pay more in taxes but they've got a far healthier working and middle class and better off society.

Australians have a $15 min wage, they've got universal healthcare that's better than ACA, and I'm not sure how their uni is but I bet they don't have college loan debt slavery either.

[ROCKMAN]

Six - Some make models as you offer and some make models that contradict those models. You're certainly free to cherry pick the ones that support your position. I, OTOH, don't accept either set of models because each makes ASSUMPTIONS to create their model. So it comes down to which set of ASSUMPTIONS you qccept. And since they are ASSUMPTIONS and not FACTS one cannot really say one is more correct then the other. You can only agree or disagree with those ASSUMPTIONS.

That is the weakness of nearly all models.

[Plantagenet]

.... the momentum and movement is growing on the liberal side of the income disparity issue.

Income disparity is an inevitable consequence of Obama's policies.

The more uneducated and poorly skilled illegal immigrants Obama lets into the country, the more downward pressure it puts on wages at the low end of the wage spectrum.

This country does't need more unskilled minimum wage workers just now---its got plenty already.

We need more machinists and plumbers and electricians and more highly skilled workers and STEM workers and IT workers. That requires people working minimum wage jobs get motivated and go to school and learn a trade. Turning minimum wage jobs into a lifetime career for people is short-sighted. These folks can do better----they need to go to school and better themselves!

[Sixstrings]

Six - Some make models as you offer and some make models that contradict those models. You're certainly free to cherry pick the ones that support your position. I, OTOH, don't accept either set of models because each makes ASSUMPTIONS to create their model. So it comes down to which set of ASSUMPTIONS you qccept. And since they are ASSUMPTIONS and not FACTS one cannot really say one is more correct then the other. You can only agree or disagree with those ASSUMPTIONS.

That is the weakness of nearly all models.

Well.. even the federal reserve says income disparity is a huge problem:

The Federal Reserve and inequality
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-federal-reserve-and-inequality/2015/06/04/cef652d4-0955-11e5-95fd-d580f1c5d44e_story.html

All the top economists say the same thing. In the US, we've got to figure out a way to move some money FROM the corporations and billionaires TO the working class and middle class.

That can be done various ways, govt can cut everyone a check, or just raise the min wage to a living wage and then that would also boost the next tier wages.

It has to be done, it's the only way to get this lagging GDP growth rate up.

[Sixstrings]

We need more machinists and plumbers and electricians and more highly skilled workers and STEM workers and IT workers.

Vo-tech should be encouraged (gee, how about Sanders' idea of free college?) but fact remains..

There are 20 million people in my state and it's never gonna be a state of 20 million plumbers.

And we don't have oil or fracking, either. We've got farms (illegal immigrants, min wage or less than that), we've got tourism / hospitality, we've got retail stores and service sector, healthcare and government that's about it. Yes there's IT, but not for 20 million people there ain't. Some manufacturing, but not much.

All these fields are valuable and necessary in society, and even a hotel checkin person deserves a basic living wage.

[Pops]

For some reason the working folks gave up on bargaining with the owners. In fact they started electing people who vowed to outlaw it, to offshore jobs, to import cheaper goods tariff free.

They capitulated to the ownership and now blame the immigrants because they can't even get 40 hours @ $7.

no wonder they are offing themselves.

[Plantagenet]

For some reason the working folks .... started electing people who vowed to outlaw it, to offshore jobs, to import cheaper goods tariff free.

You can't really blame the working people. The politicians are just so deceptive on this issue. For instance Obama posed in 2008 as someone who was opposed to the Clinton's NAFTA treaty and similar "free trade" deals that wound up costing American jobs, and here we are in 2015 with Obama being the principal architect of the TPP---a free trade deal with Asia that makes NAFTA look like protectionism.

[Sixstrings]

Pops is right.

And I'd just add -- $15 is perfectly reasonable. Don't let the onslaught of billionaire and Republican (and banker corporate establishment D) and chamber of commerce propaganda convince you otherwise.

And I feel bad for the conservatives on this forum, you're in a tough spot and you've got lousy leadership at the top -- they're just flat wrong on the minimum wage issue and it's ridiculous, they won't even come back with a compromise position like $10 an hour.

They're sticking to "not one nickel more, and if you keep complaining and I'll replace you with a robot."

Or even more concerning, Trump slipping up and saying wages for ALL AMERICANS are "too high" and they really "ought to be lower."

A worker campaign is shifting the 2016 debate around the minimum wage
Whether or not they turn out to vote, the Fight for $15 has moved the frame.

At last night's Republican debate in Milwaukee, the first question candidates got was something that hasn't come up yet in these presidential gabfests: whether any of them would support a higher minimum wage.

Predictably, they said no. "Wages too high," Donald Trump proclaimed, arguing that they made the U.S. noncompetitive. Ben Carson echoed him, saying high minimum wages just create unemployment, particularly for young people and African Americans. "If you lower those wages, that comes down."

...

That's how the Fight for $15 has operated: by drawing the debate toward its agenda, and expanding the range of policy outcomes that reasonable people discuss, rather than trying to get people excited about a particular candidate's platform.

"I think they’re going to be effective by pushing from the outside, pulling elected officials way further than they wanted to go," says Mary Kay Henry, president of the Service Employees International Union, which has bankrolled the campaign.

Trump and Carson even gave their campaign a new rallying cry. After the issue came up in last night's debate, the Fight for $15 sent out a text message to supporters: "BREAKING: Donald Trump just said: 'Wages are too high.' #Fightfor15 response: See you in Nov 2016."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/11/a-worker-campaign-is-shifting-the-2016-debate-around-the-minimum-wage/

[Sixstrings]

Here's Fight for Fifteen's website, if anyone's curious:

I’m one of the millions of Americans who believe that if you work hard you should NOT have to struggle to survive.

I’m sick and tired of the rich getting richer, while underpaid workers can’t make ends meet.

I am standing up for $15 an hour and union rights.

Legendary labor leader, Dolores Huerta, joins Milwaukee strikers and protesters outside City Hall as they begin their march to the GOP Debate. Politicians ignore low-wage workers “at their own peril”



Orlando workers turned up for $15. Now they’re at city hall to take the fight to the polls.





North Carolina Child Care Worker: “Politicians Hear Me Now, We Are HERE In The Fight For $15”
http://fightfor15.org/november10/come-get-my-vote/

Video about Huerta and the farmworkers' strike in the 1960s:

Dolores Huerta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JajeuXBo-Ak