[Lokutus]

Ronald Reagan and all the Iran-Contra boys must be rolling over in their graves. Anti-Americanism is sweeping Latin America.

[Dreamtwister]

This is going to sound like a stupid question, but for those of us who don't follow Latin American politics as closely as you do, I have to ask:

President of which country?

[Lokutus]

Back in 1979 Ortega led the Sandinista coup against the US backed dicator of Nicaragua. (Samosa?) The US immediately started backing the counter revolutionary "Contras", a band of murderous thugs. This resulted in a decade long war which only ended in the 1990 election when the US warned the Nicaraguan electorate, "If you don't vote the Sandinistas out, you will get another ten years of bloodshed." So they voted the Sandinistas out.

Now Sandinista Ortega is back in as el presidente--much to the US's consternation.

He who laughs last laughs best.

[Dreamtwister]

I know what the contras were. All you had to do was say "Nicaragua", and I would have made the connection myself.

[Lokutus]

I know what the contras were. All you had to do was say "Nicaragua", and I would have made the connection myself.

Aah, but did you know the whole story?

[Dreamtwister]

Aah, but did you know the whole story?

What, you mean like how the Sandista death squads were run from John Negroponte's office in Honduras to the tune of ~$73 million dollars per year?

Believe me, I'm the last person you need to convince. I just didn't recognize Ortega's name right away.

[Lokutus]

Aah, but did you know the whole story?

What, you mean like how the Sandista death squads were run from John Negroponte's office in Honduras to the tune of ~$73 million dollars per year?

Believe me, I'm the last person you need to convince. I just didn't recognize Ortega's name right away.

LOLz!

Negroponte backed the Sandinistas?????

Yes, and Germany was our ally in WW2.

Negroponte funnelled money to the Contras.

Re-read my explanantion above.

[Lokutus]

Didn't Ollie "The Turd That Wouldn't Flush" North just get a gig with FoxNews?

[gg3]

And let's not forget: when he lost an election years ago, he exited the office in the proper manner. Now he just won one, fair & square.

This is going to be very interesting. Here I've been thinking that Marxist-style socialism was dead as of the implosion of the evil soviet empire, and now we have overtly Marxist leaders in Venezuela and Nicaragua, all friends with Fidel no less.

Ortega says he's got religion now, and says Jesus was the ultimate communist (which in a manner of speaking is basically true).

What intrigues me is if we'll see some kind of Christian communist philosophy emerging here, and whether it will manage to avoid the tyrannical excesses of the atheistic variety.

What also intrigues me, perhaps most of all, is if these guys can find a way to deal with the coming reality of the end of growth and thus the permanent zero-growth economy. My strong preference is for freedom of enterprise and the "decentralized intelligence" of markets. But objectivity compels looking at what these guys are up to and whether it will work. Cuba after all did survive its own peak oil event with zero deaths and no societal breakdown or collapse. That's impressive. So we shall see...

[Rafa]

Here I've been thinking that Marxist-style socialism was dead as of the implosion of the evil soviet empire, and now we have overtly Marxist leaders in Venezuela and Nicaragua, all friends with Fidel no less.

Undemocratic socialism, as had been run by USSR and orbital countries, is dead and well dead.
But democratic socialism is emerging, with force.

And it is no wonder it is emerging in Latin America; synchretism is in the very nature of latinamericans; they have roots in three continents, they have a high spirituality and pragmatism mentality.

For an european communist even changing the marxism gospel was an unthinkable think, much less mixing it with religion!

But for a latinamerican communist there is no problem in doing so. Mixing multiple ideas is not only something seeing as not a bad thing, it is something that is activley seeked in the latinamerican mentality.

So, they took good thinks about classical communist, because they are good things, and take away the bad things; they take the good thinks in christianity, the good thinks in the ancestral amerindian traditions, the good things in european socialist experiences, the good things in asian socialist experiences, the good things from the independency war times; mix it all, and you get something that is better than each ingredient taken separatelly.

The technological means also allow for mass popular consultation and diffusion of information; making the process very rich, very dynamic, and extremely democratic.
Probably such experience couldn't have happened 50 years ago; but now mass media and particularly the internet, give effective means to defeat the natural trying by some people to take control; maybe we could see the first true direct democracy.

It is very interesting how the new venezuelian ministeries will work: monday, tuesday and wednesday, it will be calssical office work as we all know; then thusday, friday, saturday and sunday it will be work on the field: inspection of works, schools, public enterprises, etc etc, to see how they work, what is good, what is bad, what is missing, how to improve; there will be also direct contact with people, on neighborhoods, on small towns, all across the country; and each monday each minister has to report all he did and saw on the field, the ideas and suggestion people told him or her, etc.
you will note too there is no rest day; ministers will be, litteraly, slaves of the nation (and imho, much of them won't finish the mandate and will be replaced, not supporting the workload).

Such ideas would have been impossible before the developpement of telecomunications, because a countryside travel (a century and a half ago that would mean at horseback) would have meant being uncommunicated and unable to perform the ministery tasks.
Now it's possible, and it opens new and interesting perspectives.
I know of no country having gone so far (not even Venezuela, as it is just starting now), but if it is a successful experience it could be a big leap forward in democracy for humanity.
(of course, corporations don't like it at all; as real democracy for the people would mean less power for them...)

What also intrigues me, perhaps most of all, is if these guys can find a way to deal with the coming reality of the end of growth and thus the permanent zero-growth economy.

I believe they can.
The very strong amerindian roots in them (I'm not talking about bllod percentage here, but cultural heritage) make them probably the best suitable for that task. That amerindian heritage puts them in synch with the very idea of adapting our lives to the nature rythm; actually if you hear or read Hugo Chavez speeches, he very often praises the natural life of amerindians and how they were/are able to live respecting nature (he actually says "mother earth") and allowing natural regeneration. He constantly says that uberconsumism is a very bad thing that will lead us to extinction as a species and the need to revert it.

The current leftist movement in Latin America is much more than just old comunism; fall of the USSR has actually freed leftists of Latin America from the authoritarian influence from Moscow, and they are returning to their ancestral and cultural roots and making them blossom.

[Revi]

I was in northern Costa Rica during the 1980's and the people I stayed with had helped out with overthrowing Somoza. That was a very upbeat time for Nicaragua. Nicos have had to endure so much since then. They finally have Ortega back. Maybe this will bring back some sense of stability.

[gg3]

Rafa, very interesting stuff. You're right about the Latin American tendency toward syncretizing everything. This may indeed lead to a best of both worlds situation.

The item about Venezuelan ministers having no days off is highly disturbing though; humans break pretty quickly under those conditions. Even machines need downtime for maintenance, and humans deserve at least as much respect as machines.

If the new Latin American socialists can succeed, this will ultimately be a good thing not only for their people but also for us here in the US. The reason is, during the Cold War we had a real ideological competitor, and the axis of competition was, "whose system of politics and economics is really best at making life better for people?"

After the downfall of the Soviet empire, we grew complacent. Presently the axis of competition is between Western capitalism and Middle Eastern religious extremism. Each of these appeals to a different constituency so in fact they are not competing directly. Thus the complacency grows, and we don't have to live up to our own rhetoric, to the point where we stop living up to it altogether.

However if there is a successful Latin American socialism, then the competition is back on a viable track: which system makes life better for people?, and then we will have to start living up to our own rhetoric again (or at least trying).

[NEOPO]

You like him because you have the same middle name and you both hate america!!

So this is democratic socialism?
Cool

[Sixstrings]

Cuban migrants paralyze Nicaragua-Costa Rica border

La Cruz (Costa Rica) (AFP) - A protest by desperate Cuban migrants stranded on their journey to the United States paralyzed a key border crossing between Costa Rica and Nicaragua Tuesday.

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Cuba blames US for instigating surge of migrants from island Associated Press
Nicaragua blames Costa Rica as Cubans storm border AFP
Nicaragua closes border to Cuban migrants, rebukes Costa Rica Reuters
Tensions flare between Costa Rica, Nicaragua over migrants Associated Press

Long lines of buses and trucks formed on both sides of the frontier as the migrants refused to let traffic pass, authorities from the two countries said.

"The international transport of passengers and cargo remains paralyzed" at the Penas Blancas border post, the Nicaraguan government said, warning of disruptions to trade and transport "for the entire Central American region."

A spokesman for Costa Rica's immigration authority confirmed the blockage.

More than 2,000 Cubans are stuck at the border, penniless and without immigration papers.

Many were stranded when Costa Rica busted a human trafficking ring that was charging $7,000 to $15,000 (6,500 to 14,000 euros) to smuggle them into the United States.

They are part of a growing surge in Cubans trying to reach the United States since Washington and Havana announced a thaw in their Cold War-era standoff last December.
http://news.yahoo.com/cuban-migrants-paralyze-nicaragua-costa-rica-border-115320250.html

Apparently, detente with Cuba is causing an immigration wave because a lot of people want to get into the US before the political asylum benefit is removed.