[roccman]

I'm begining to understand more of the social and economic aspects here. I'm however a lot more optimistic than some, only time will tell.

As BigTex wrote, "Its alot to take in"

You may be well served to read this:

By Perry Arnet

This one paper sucked every ounce of optimism I had left.

We are beyond screwed...we are dead, just too lazy to bury ourselves.

[Heineken]

Looks like I have it right in my second signature.

I believe that that signature (which I developed with my brother, who gets most of the credit, actually) captures it better than any other words could.

I'm waiting to see hard evidence that contradicts it, but there is none, and it's likely there will be none.

[BigTex]

GASMON, I'm glad you found the metaphor helpful.

It's a big problem. Many facets.

The best "solutions" you are likely to see are actually just mitigation measures.

It's a little bit like solving the problem of your own mortality by eating a low fat diet. It might make you live longer, but it's not going to keep you from dying one day.

That's where industrial civilization is at right now. It's in the process of making its first Weight Watchers appointment and savoring the thought of living forever.

[roccman]

The technology exists. Another alternative is to electrify the railroads, but quick.

I have been on about 2-3 dozen teams over the past 15 years permitting dozens of power plants and 1000s of miles of transmission lines.

Couple of things:

1) there is nothing quick about permitting and building a power plants and tlines.

2) power plants are being taken off the books or lead agencies are being sued by proponents because of lack of regulatory decisions...google "Sithe Global Sues EPA over Desert Rock Energy Project".

3) work forces to build power plants are evaporating.

4) raw materials to build power plants are becoming exponentially more expensive as oil is increasing.

5) Co2 regulations are making it economically not possible to burn coal...

you say nucs

6) google yucca mountain

Naw..Perry is spot on...and the sooner all of us reach this conclusion the better.

The party is over...the illusion was always nothing more than an illusion.

We just need to get over our "clever monkey" selves, grow up, and face the music.

We got drunk off someones elses bottle and now that bottle is empty...too bad...here comes the hang over.

Hug your kids (if you gott'um)...enjoy your life and full belly today.

The pain will be exquisite...

At some point reality will step in.