[nowanda]

hello to everybody. i would like firstly to introduse my self. i am 25 years old and coming from Greece. i am anarchist and artist. i strongly believe that this world is going straight ahead to hell. everyday i am trying to find out the ways and means that could stop this crazy ride of modern civilazation towards destruction and death. i know offcourse that the situation is not easy, especially for the people that dont want just to reform, and make living more tollerant but try to reclame all the aspects of their life and build a society without authority. through out free expression and interactive projects i try to communicate my ideas with everybody. since i have understand that art can not be seperated from everyday life i try to develop the art of living free. allthow i have grow up in the country side of greece and have avoid in my chilhood the madness of the big city, i feel that the knowledjes that i have gain as it concerns building with natural materials, cultivating biologically, using non hostile for the environment forms of energy and generally living a life in peace and colaboration with nature instead fighting mother earth and killing her every day, (with my ignorance or in purpose.) are very limited. we have loose the "know how" that was essential in the preindustrial world and by this we have become hostages of a complexe and chaotic net of services that keeps us far away from controlling our life by been autonomous. i know that a lot of people shear the same anxieties and have similar point of view. if there are projects of ecovillages ,farms, collectives or groups that running on and are working on the structure of a society based on social ecology and direct democracy i would like to know and come in contact with them.

[Ptarmigan]

There are many ecovillages in Europe and the rest of the world.
All of them are going in a different direction than cornucopians.
Some of the villages are more "ecological" than others some are more "spiritual", some are more "radical" and so on
One could just move in to the first which would accept you and you would be a lot more "anarchoprimitivist" than living in a city....
But best thing would be to visit a couple of them and then choose...

I am interested in organizing a Bus-tour for a month around Europe (2007), visiting Ecovillages, communitys, strawbale construction-sites.

Here is a link to a book which describes such villages around Eu:

http://www.evnuk.org.uk/

[smallpoxgirl]

I just have to point out the irony of looking for anarcho-primativists on the internet.

[Ptarmigan]

Well Smallpoxgirl I tried this out in the woods :
"we're an anarchosyndicalist commune, we take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer. But all the decisions by that officer must be approved at a bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs but a two-thirds majority ..."

out there by my self in the woods.....

you do have a point . Internet is far from primitivism but I wouldn't know of hunting and gathering and schools teaching Survival skills if I would live totally offline. Now I am confident that one can learn to live in the wilderness indefinetly but it takes time to learn.
One day in time I will forget about my past life and become a troll foreverafter.

[Tyler_JC]

I just have to point out the irony of looking for anarcho-primativists on the internet.

HAHAHAHAH

Sorry, I needed to jump in a laugh at that.

Nowanda, check out the Planning For The Future forum, I believe some communes are being planned there as we speak.

[smallpoxgirl]

Well Smallpoxgirl I tried this out in the woods :

Not trying to dis your thread. Just think it's kinda funny. Half the irony, of course, is that you'll find tons of anarcho-primitivists on the web (myself included).

[Heineken]

The individual can experience true anarchy only in relative isolation, not in organized groups.

So, that's another logical inconsistency to add to SPG's.

[smallpoxgirl]

The individual can experience true anarchy only in relative isolation, not in organized groups.

That would be the individualist-anarchist philosophy I believe, which differs significantly from anarcho-primitivism. Of course anarcho-syndicalism is miles from anarcho-primitivism too.

[Heineken]

Noted. Obviously I'm not up on the terminology in this area.

[smallpoxgirl]

Noted. Obviously I'm not up on the terminology in this area.

Let's see:
Individualist Anarchist: "I should be able to do whatever I want. If you don't like it, sod off."

Anarcho-syndicalist: "Industrialism is good, but workers don't get fair returns on the fruits of their labors because all capital is owned by the wealthy. Workers should sieze the means of production, work cooperatively, and share the proceeds."

Anarcho-Primitivist: "Industrialism, civilization, and probably even agriculture have been mistakes in human history. We were most fulfilled when we lived in small cooperative groups and hunted and gathered for most of what we needed. We should try and figure out a way to return to that existance."

Green anarchists share with anarcho-primitivist a distaste for industrialism and civilization, thought some would not be wholely opposed to agriculture.

[Heineken]

Thanks for this glossary, SPG.

Anarcho-syndicalism, from your definition, resembles communism. (I assume the "anarcho" component derives from the "seizing.")

I belong to a delicate blend of the other three categories.

[nowanda]

hello there again. thanks for the information, they were really usefull for me get a first idea about the running projects. as about the bus tour that you are planning to organize i would like to know some more and if i can to help.
...as about the comment for the antifasis of looking for anarchoprimitivist projects through out internet i have to say that i can not really understand the basis of the argument. in my point of view we all leave in the same wicked world that the "rules of the game" are forced on us. it would be at least hypocritical from my side to declare now and hear my total denial to this world and play the role of the dogmatic and "clean" anarchist. for me anarchoprimitivism, anarchoindividualism, anarchosyndicalism,anarchocommunism, anarchocollectivism and in general all the different forms of fight that the anarchist moovement has choose to perform in different periods of history are taking considered as equally interesting attempts of build a new society and i take in mind both the advantages and disadvantages of each theory and the reflections on the wider net of society. i think that the polemics between the different tences of anarchism are not so helpfull as somebody could believe in first look. they do not express the polymorfity of the anarcists but rather a big lac of understanding of the main moto of anarchy as an open political, philosophical,esthetical and ethical system of values. from my point of view anarchy is an always developing work of art. its not restricted in any camvas and in any colour pallet. it grows up and takes its form among the wills and needs of everybody that is fighting for total freedom.

p.s. i know one thing, that i know nothing (Socrates)

[Aaron]

Took me back to 1975...

We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting-- By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,-- But by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major--

Name that quote.

[TheTurtle]

Name that quote.

Monty Python and the HG.

What's my prize?

[Aaron]

Name that quote.

Monty Python and the HG.

What's my prize?

Lifetime achievement Smartypants Award.

Nice catch...

[smallpoxgirl]

Anarcho-syndicalism, from your definition, resembles communism. (I assume the "anarcho" component derives from the "seizing.")

Well...the guiding principles of anarchism are free-association and non-coercion. If you're going to be part of a group it should be a group of your choosing and if you do things in the group it is because you agree that they are appropriate, not because someone will put you in jail or break your legs otherwise. Communists don't mind breaking your legs as long as they get their own way.

Anarcho syndicalists and communists pretty much co-evolved and cooperated from maybe 1890-1920. The big difference is that communists throw in the "dictatorship of the proletariat". It's supposed to be just a stage, but recent experience proves it a bit more enduring. In both the October Revolution in Russia and in the Spanish Revolution, the communists were greatly aided by anarchists and then turned around and slit the anarchist's throats.

[Tyler_JC]

I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective...

[Aaron]

Anarcho-syndicalism, from your definition, resembles communism. (I assume the "anarcho" component derives from the "seizing.")

Well...the guiding principles of anarchism are free-association and non-coercion. If you're going to be part of a group it should be a group of your choosing and if you do things in the group it is because you agree that they are appropriate, not because someone will put you in jail or break your legs otherwise. Communists don't mind breaking your legs as long as they get their own way.

Anarcho syndicalists and communists pretty much co-evolved and cooperated from maybe 1890-1920. The big difference is that communists throw in the "dictatorship of the proletariat". It's supposed to be just a stage, but recent experience proves it a bit more enduring. In both the October Revolution in Russia and in the Spanish Revolution, the communists were greatly aided by anarchists and then turned around and slit the anarchist's throats.

You are one smart cookie & it's always a pleasure to read your posts.

Thanks.

[MD]

......
You are one smart cookie & it's always a pleasure to read your posts...

Thus the reason I hang around this god-forsaken place. There are a number of "smart cookies"posting here on topics important to the times.

There are some true gems in this steaming pile of dung.

Fun thread, thanks.

[mgibbons19]

......
You are one smart cookie & it's always a pleasure to read your posts...

Thus the reason I hang around this god-forsaken place. There are a number of "smart cookies"posting here on topics important to the times.

There are some true gems in this steaming pile of dung.

Fun thread, thanks.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

It feels like I am always two steps from ignoring PO.com. But the truth is, I keep coming back and sifting through the verbal humanure.