[jkritch]

Hello everyone. I'm writing a research paper for English101. The topic I chose was Peak Oil. My paper is going to outline peak oil, its effect on the economy, America's involvement in global oil production and consumption, alternative energies and what can be done to prevent further certain apocalyptic events. I also thought I'd touch base on the United States occupation of Iraq seeing as it might have something to do with petroleum. Anyway, I have my Argument of peak oil, but the problem is I need a few counter argument. Does anyone know where I can find information in support of the use of oil and against alternative energies? Not just these, but any other counter argument against any of the ideas i've proposed would greatly help me. Thank you!

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

Hello everyone. I'm writing a research paper for English101. The topic I chose was Peak Oil. My paper is going to outline peak oil, its effect on the economy, America's involvement in global oil production and consumption, alternative energies and what can be done to prevent further certain apocalyptic events.

Quite a list for English 101. I would start with reading an interesting book which won the Pulitzer entitled "The Prize", Epic Quest for Oil, Money and Power or something along those lines.

I also thought I'd touch base on the United States occupation of Iraq seeing as it might have something to do with petroleum.

Well...not according to the people who started it anyway...but there is nothing wrong with extreme conjecture in most English classes I've ever taken, most of the time getting the comma's in the right places seems more important than wild speculation.

Anyway, I have my Argument of peak oil, but the problem is I need a few counter argument. Thank you!

Excellent! Someone who isn't collecting backyard chickens and guns and ammo quite yet!

How is this for a counter arguement...the end of the age of oil ( now called Peak usually even though the two might be completely different ) was declared sometime back in the late 1800's and DARN it...didn't work out. Hubbert called Peak Oil for the world for the 90's or so...and it didn't work out either. Campbell used to like the early 90's for extreme price hikes, when the price went down, he disappeared for awhile and then came back with a different prediction in the hopes that no one would notice his first such predictions. Current Peak has been pegged at last Thanksgiving, but we apparently have yet to see the economic devastation which is supposed to associated with it.

Everyone else who had an earlier Peak Oil date has revised their Peak oil date to be somewhere in the future...of course.

There are many counter arguements to Peak Oil and its assumed side effects besides it not happening yet, I would recommend the 'Debunking Peak Oil-Mike Lynch" thread in the Peak Oil thread as an interesting place to start.

[coyote]

I also thought I'd touch base on the United States occupation of Iraq seeing as it might have something to do with petroleum.

Well...not according to the people who started it anyway...but there is nothing wrong with extreme conjecture in most English classes I've ever taken, most of the time getting the comma's in the right places seems more important than wild speculation.

Wild speculation? You're kidding, right? Do you actually believe that we would ever have bothered with Iraq in the first place if it weren't in the middle of an oil-producing region whose political stability is vital to our national security (too bad we screwed it up so badly...)? All the way back -- would 'Desert Shield' have ever happened if oil were not a primary concern? Nearly everything we do in that part of the world has something to do with oil...

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

Wild speculation? You're kidding, right? Do you actually believe that we would ever have bothered with Iraq in the first place if it weren't in the middle of an oil-producing region whose political stability is vital to our national security (too bad we screwed it up so badly...)? All the way back -- would 'Desert Shield' have ever happened if oil were not a primary concern? Nearly everything we do in that part of the world has something to do with oil...

The "wild speculation" has only to do with the conspiracy fans who want to take what strikes me as a straight forward "boot out someone we don't like" and make it into the beginning of the RESOURCE WARS!

Anyone who was either alive during the oil shocks of the 70's or who took a high school civics class and sat through a poor presentation of Jimmy Carters "free flow of oil is in Americas national interest" doctrine would know why the Middle East is important to most everyone on the planet.

[seahorse]

jkritch,

In reading the responses you are getting, you have to understand the people who are responding to you.

Keep in mind that Reservegrowth does believe that world oil will peak and also believes that forecasting a peak in world oil production is not a waste of time. In fact, Reservegrowth has said 2015 is as good a date as any for a peak in world oil production. Does that make him pessimistic? If so, what does it mean to be pessimistic?

As you can gather from his posts, Reservegrowth disagrees that a peak in world oil production means the end of the world where we all start shooting each other. In fact, he chose the screename "reservegrowth" bc he believes that "reservegrowth" in oil reserves will lessen the effects of a world oil production peak and allow the world to change to another energy source or sources. Now, he can't tell you what those sources are, or how much they will cost, and who will pay for them, but historically, societies have found solutions, so shall we.

So, keep in mind that in trying to understand peak oil, definitions all aspects of peak oil are very important, the technical terms are difficult even amongst the "insiders" and also the social terms are difficult to define, like who is a pessimist and what will the ramnifications of peak oil be, if any.


Reservegrowth is right, that historically people have cried wolf about oil depltion, but even Reservegrowth acknowledges that some day world oil will peak, and he thinks as early as 2015, which is a fairly pessmistic date for peak oil. Therefore, its not crying wolf, society must change, the President of the United States is calling for change, and thank goodness you are interested enough to listen and try to understand. Only through understanding the issue, defining the problems, is there any hope that Reservegrowth is correct, that peak oil will not be economically catastrophic.

There are several government reports which are interesting reads: one is known as the Hirsch report to the Department of Energy, February of 2005, called "Mitigating the Effects of Peak Oil." There was a more recent report by the US Corps of Engineers. I can't recall the name of that but it can be found on several websites. I know there is a copy on the Oil Depletion Analysis Center website (ODAC for short). There is also a member on this site called TaskforceUnity that has a very comprehensive model with information on world oil peak. If you search for him and send him a PM, I'm sure he will link you to his report which is online.

[jkritch]

Right now I'm studying from a few books which I'm sure some of you are familiar with. The list goes: Hubbert's Peak ny Kenneth Deffeyes, Blood and Oil by Micheal Klare, Foreign Oil Dependence by numerous authors and a few alternative energy books. Right Now I feel really unsure of where I stand on counter arguments for this paper. It just seems like peak oil is a KNOWN problem and the things to be done about it are all positive. Would could be said that supports petroleum consumption or negates the idea of funding alternative energy resources as opposed to funding more oil drilling. I don't have to use just these arguments. Any ideas on other arguments I could throw in the mix that could be relative to this paper? I'm very appreciative of any of the help provided by you guys. This English class is huge for me. I'm planning on an English Major transfer to UCLA. LOL GL

[UIUCstudent01]

Right Now I feel really unsure of where I stand on counter arguments for this paper. It just seems like peak oil is a KNOWN problem and the things to be done about it are all positive. Would could be said that supports petroleum consumption or negates the idea of funding alternative energy resources as opposed to funding more oil drilling.

1. Try and review your posts for clarity. I have the same problem of writing like your last sentence above (minus your would=what), so I understand it. But I had to go over it to get exactly what you meant.

2. Do this for your paper. I hope you already know to never ever turn in a paper you've never read aloud (at least, in your head). Having someone else read over the paper to highlight unclear spots is one of the best things to do. Don't be shy about it...

3. More oil consumption can be good for developing countries in Africa. (Domestic consumption that is.) I've read stories about how an African economy pretty much collapsed immediately (or suffered badly) because of the rise in oil prices. You may hear something about 'the oil curse' arriving in Africa (where there's oil, the government becomes unstable). The well-being of nations (or let's say, industrial civilization) is dependent or at least linked to oil consumption in this way. A sudden collapse of affordability is really really bad.

4. Renewables usually only work for certain areas. Biomass/Bioethanol can't be grown in Arizona, and wind is useless in some areas. Then you have the fact that alot of cars can't use renewables...

[shakespear1]

It is good that you are tackling this issue. There is a lot of info on this website to give you both sides of this issue.

This will be THE ISSUE of your graduation class as the reprecussion will be felt by your class as you are about to want to start a family.

[bart]

One suggestion (and I think I'd make this for ANYONE writing about peak oil):

Don't try to cover too much!

Pick one aspect of PO that particularly interests you, or that you know about.

Surprisingly, you can communicate your ideas about PO much more effectively this way than if you take on the whole mess directly.

[Doly]

I'd say all the counter arguments are likely to be on the lines of the alternatives not being great. You can't really say that we should consume more oil, mostly because it isn't even physically possible.

[jkritch]

So I can counter argue that peak oil is a myth and alternative energies aren't so great.

[UIUCstudent01]

So I can counter argue that peak oil is a myth and alternative energies aren't so great.

You can say that peak oil catastrophism is a myth...

It's just damn idiotic to say that there are unlimited amounts of oil (for us to use)...

[jkritch]

Sounds good guys. Thanks so much for the info so far. I'll keep you updated on how my paper is turning out. I'm going to go work on it right now

[killJOY]

Well...not according to the people who started it anyway...but there is nothing wrong with extreme conjecture in most English classes I've ever taken, [sic]most of the time getting the comma's[sic] in the right places seems more important than wild speculation.

You're lucky you never took a class from me, punk.

English class is huge for me. I'm planning on an English Major transfer to UCLA.

Don't be stupid. Get a life.

[jkritch]

here is a rough outline of my paper. tell me if you guys think im missing anything that would be important to my argument. im going to be agreeing with peak oil. im still sketched about counter arguments

I. Intro - Peak Oil
A. Define Hubbert's Peak
1.The Origin of Oil
B. Predictions
1. The Future of Fossil Fuels
2. Alternative Energies
C. Counter-Arguments
1. Against Peak Oil
2. Alternative Energies Negatives
D. Thesis
II. Support - Global Petroleum Statistics
A. Leading Oil Production Countries
B. Leading Oil Consumption Countries
C. U.S. Energy Use and Population
1. Past, Present & Future
D. Petroleum and Gas Reserves
III. Support - Foreign Oil Dependence
A. U.S. Energy Dependence and War
1. In Support
2. Against
3. Bush Administration Energy Strategy
4. American Alliance with Saudi Arabia
5. Geopolitcs
B. U.S. invasion of Iraq to Control Oil Reserves
1. In Support
2. Against
IV. Support - Alternative Energies
A. Sun
B. Wind
C. Water
D. Earth's Core
E. Life
F. Stars
V. Support - Counter-Arguments
1. Peak Oil
A. Myths/Fallacies
2. Alternative Energy vs Petroleum
A. Positives/Negatives
VI. Closing - Final Thoughts
1. Personal Thoughts
2. Perosnal Predictions
3. Closing Argument/Conclusion

[killJOY]

That's for English 101??? That's a tall order.

How many pages do you have?

In my own English 100 class, I'm required to assign papers of 5-8 pages. You have enough material there for a Master's thesis.

[jkritch]

BTW, Anyone know where I can find informating against alternative energy use. Google.com has not been my friend today

[UIUCstudent01]

BTW, Anyone know where I can find informating against alternative energy use. Google.com has not been my friend today

www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

It's the doomer's bible!

(Look at the supposed arguments against alternative energy. 2nd page)