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Resource Wars: Global Energy

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Resource Wars: Global Energy

Unread postby Ranglepung » Fri 03 Jun 2005, 04:39:58

Article in Financiel Times: link
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Re: Kissinger warns of global energy wars

Unread postby mididoctors » Fri 03 Jun 2005, 10:43:08

Ranglepung wrote:Article in Financiel Times. link
really? what amazing insight
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Unread postby Raxozanne » Fri 03 Jun 2005, 11:22:23

I too predict global energy wars and have amazing insight 8)
Hello, my name is Rax. I live in the Amazon jungle with a bunch of women. We are super eco feminists and our favourite passtimes are dangling men by their ankles and discussing peak oil. - apparently
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Unread postby Carlhole » Fri 03 Jun 2005, 13:58:39

Cheney at the Air Force Academy: Perpetuating Murderous Illusions

by Kurt Nimmo

Dick “Bunker” Cheney visited the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs yesterday. In essence, he told the next generation of bullet-stoppers for empire they can expect to get their hindmost quarters shot off. “You will be among those who lead us to victory against freedom’s enemies,” he said. “And you will play an historic role in the great victories to come.” In other words, if they are not flown into Dover AFB in a flag-draped coffins in the middle of the night, they will return with mental problems associated with killing “terrorists,” i.e., people who live in foreign lands where there is oil and other precious natural resources in need of stealing by carpet-bagging multinational corporations.

“America chose to lead and had the courage to act,” Bush’s brain told the academy’s misguided graduates. “And so the murderous regimes of the Taliban and Saddam Hussein are history, more than 50 million people have been liberated from tyranny, and democracy is coming to the broader Middle East.”

It makes you wonder if they teach history at the Air Force Academy—or undiluted history. The “murderous” (indeed they were) Taliban were a creation of Pakistan’s ISI and the CIA. “Its members came from madrassas set up by the Pakistani government along the border and funded by the U.S., Britain, and the Saudis, where they had received theological indoctrination and military training,” writes Phil Gasper.

The U.S. government was well aware of the Taliban’s reactionary program, yet it chose to back their rise to power in the mid-1990s. The creation of the Taliban was “actively encouraged by the ISI and the CIA,” according to Selig Harrison, an expert on U.S. relations with Asia. “The United States encouraged Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to support the Taliban, certainly right up to their advance on Kabul,” adds respected journalist Ahmed Rashid. When the Taliban took power, State Department spokesperson Glyn Davies said that he saw “nothing objectionable” in the Taliban’s plans to impose strict Islamic law, and Senator Hank Brown, chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on the Near East and South Asia, welcomed the new regime: “The good part of what has happened is that one of the factions at last seems capable of developing a new government in Afghanistan.” “The Taliban will probably develop like the Saudis. There will be Aramco [the consortium of oil companies that controlled Saudi oil], pipelines, an emir, no parliament and lots of Sharia law. We can live with that,” said another U.S. diplomat in 1997.

Rest of article at:

http://www.kurtnimmo.com/blog/
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Curse of Peak oil on the poor and global war

Unread postby Wildwell » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 12:48:30

Peak oil is hitting and will hit the poorest countries first, causing:

1. More wars and conflict, drug running, corruption and less government stability.
2. Further resentment toward rich countries, possibly with an increase in anti west protests and terrorism.
3. Restrict trade and affect standards of living

While the rich western tourist flies out to poor countries and spends money, much of that money from tourism will be needed for basics and fuel. Eventually even the rich tourist will be unable to afford to fly, creating a double whammy for poor nations.

http://republic-news.org/archive/117-re ... awford.htm
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Unread postby Aaron » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 13:30:31

Who are you kidding?

They will be too busy having fun with their flying hydrogen cars to fight!
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Unread postby Eli » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 13:45:06

Very interesting article Wildwell.

Looks like the US will be in for a flood of new immigrants as these problems worsen with rising fuel coast in the poorer nations of the world.

The Castro quote that no Caribbean Nation will be able to buy oil when it hits 100 dollars a barrel was an eye opener.

The poor Nations of the world could easily slide into chaos when oil price reach that point. Just another reason that a soft landing is not going to be possibility.
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Unread postby Ludi » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 14:00:50

It's especially sad because we've made them dependent on oil, by bringing them modern agriculture and city living. :(
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Unread postby Eli » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 14:05:48

We did not make them do a thing it is just the way the world has worked out.
If you can grow twice as much food it is human nature to do it if you can.
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Unread postby MonteQuest » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 15:17:55

Eli wrote:Very interesting article Wildwell.

Looks like the US will be in for a flood of new immigrants as these problems worsen with rising fuel coast in the poorer nations of the world.


Yes, one of my predictions:

Montequest wrote:People in Third World countries, like Mexico, will do the only human thing, the thing we all would do in their circumstances--try to get into countries they perceive have wealth and jobs and energy.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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Unread postby Wildwell » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 15:31:28

The flood of new immigrants means forcing down wages in Labour markets, therefore making the poor in the host country less able to buy things, causing resentment, political problems and strikes.

This is already happening in Belgium, France, Germany and the UK now cheap Eastern European markets are flooding the west with cheap labour.

More people may mean a greater demand for housing and services, which affects the host population, particularly the young. Eg UK.
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Unread postby Ludi » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 15:46:35

Eli wrote:We did not make them do a thing it is just the way the world has worked out.
If you can grow twice as much food it is human nature to do it if you can.


Yes we did. The Green Revolution was actively promoted by governments, the World Bank, corporations, etc, forcing people to stop their traditional farming methods and take up modern farming, just as the Green Revolution forced and continues to force American farmers out of the farming business. Please do some more research into the history of modern farming. I recommend Wendell Berry's The Unsettling of America.
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Re: Curse of Peak oil on the poor and global war

Unread postby JohnDenver » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 00:34:33

Wildwell wrote:Peak oil is hitting and will hit the poorest countries first,


I don't think this is correct. Nicaragua is actually toward the mid-range in terms of poverty. In fact, all of the countries currently suffering from recent oil problems (Nicaragua, the Philippines, Indonesia, Zimbabwe) seem to fit a similar profile:

Nicaragua
GDP per capita: $2,500
Labor force: 43% services, 42% agriculture, 15% industry

Philippines
GDP per capita: $4,200
Labor force: 39.8% agriculture, 19.4% government services, 17.7% services, 10.2% unemployment

Indonesia
GDP per capita: $3,100
Labor force: 45% agriculture, 16% energy, 39% services, 10.6% unemployment

Zimbabwe
GDP per capita: $2,400
Labor force: 66% agriculture, 10% industry, 24% services

There are about 188 countries in the world, and these countries rank as follows in terms of GDP/capita:

Nicaragua: 128
Philippines: 104
Indonesia: 116
Zimbabwei: About 127
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_gdp_cap&int=-1

As you can see, they all fall roughly in the middle (to lower middle) in terms of poverty ranking. If the nations were collapsing in order of poverty, we would expect to the most serious problems in countries like:

Afghanistan (ranking 171)
GDP per capita: $700
Labor force: 80% agriculture and animal husbandry. 10% services and other, 10% industry

Malawi (ranking 177)
GDP per capita: $670
Labor force: 86% agriculture

Mali (ranking 163)
GDP per capita: $860
Labor force: 80% agriculture, 19% services
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Unread postby Eli » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 01:42:48

No, it makes sense those last countrys you listed do not have far to fall. Once youve hit bottom your there.

The others are poorer than the west but richer than those at the low end of the rung. It would make sense that the mid level poorer countrys are going to be made to suffer any more.
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Unread postby chowchow » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 06:56:17

Eli wrote:The others are poorer than the west but richer than those at the low end of the rung. It would make sense that the mid level poorer countrys are going to be made to suffer any more.


I think you're correct. In other words, countries that have become dependent on rich countries will fair worst only because they won't be able to afford the energy alternatives unless rich nations get them involved. However, I can bet that agriculture will boom in Nicaragua and the other 'middle' countries as they move become more self-sustained.
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Unread postby JohnDenver » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 07:01:50

chowchow wrote:However, I can bet that agriculture will boom in Nicaragua and the other 'middle' countries as they move become more self-sustained.


I was thinking the same thing. Toward the bottom of the middle range you have countries which are only half committed to petroleum culture. They're still close enough to their agricultural roots to "drop out" and fall back on them.
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Unread postby Eli » Mon 18 Jul 2005, 10:17:34

Yup

The countrys that are the poorest in the world use the least amount of oil they are already of the grid so to speak. And the ones in the middle are not that far from the agricultural roots.

The Countrys that are going to have the toughest time are places like India and China and the of course the US.

It was something like 80 % of the us were farmers in the early part of the last century. It will be rough transition back to that.
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