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US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 13:10:23

shortonoil wrote:
So, we're back in Iraq. I wonder how that will go?


When did we leave?


We left in 2010.

Obama pulled all US troops out of Iraq and declared victory. In a nationally televised speech given on 31 August 2010 Obama declared: "the American combat mission in Iraq has ended. Operation Iraqi Freedom is over, and the Iraqi people now have lead responsibility for the security of their country."

Unfortunately, in 2013 Obama sent US troops back to Iraq after some of the jihadi forces he had directed the CIA to train in Syria to overthrow the Assad regime went rogue and invaded Syria instead.

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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 13:13:53

The US is denying responsibility for the second missile attack in Iran that killed 6 commanders of the pro-Iranian militia.

So who killed them?

Israel? Iraqi army forces? Rivals in the militia?

----------------

The Iranian UN ambassador said yesterday the US killing of the Iranian arch-terrorist Suleimanni is "tantamount to a declaration of war."

No one asked him if the earlier Iranian sponsored attack on the US embassy in Iraq was also "tantamount to a declaration of war."

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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 13:26:30

When did we leave?

The Middle East is about one thing: OIL!


Once more a load of crap from short. If it was all about oil then surely the country that instigated and fully supported the two Gulf Wars along with rebuilding of Iraq would have benefited if not solely but to a greater magnitude than any other country from access to production contracts. That was not the case. US companies have won very little in the way of the service contracts which were offered by the Iraq government in the years following the wars. In fact of the 23 service contracts awarded only 1 was awarded to a company domiciled in the US, Exxon along with partner Shell at the West Qurna Field. The main winners from a country perspective have been Malaysia (4 contracts) and China (3 contracts). 12 out of the 23 service contracts were awarded to countries who were not members of the coalition of the willing and that includes Malaysia and China which took 7 of the concessions and were completely opposed to the Iraq invasions.

So the logic it was all about oil is basically BS.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 13:35:35

https://apnews.com/a6adb7b30adb444998541b1b5aca4332
Rock, would have us believe that the interest in the ME, the richest region in the easy to get, process oil and gas is not about these energy sources. Oh, right its about magic carpets :lol:
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 13:44:34

rockdoc123 wrote:So the logic it was all about oil is basically BS.


Back in the GW Bush era there was an idea that the US would benefit from said oil contracts but they wanted to avoid it looking like a resource grab. It is really Trump who feels we should be shameless and direct about grabbing resources.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... e-illegal/

Keep voting R, people!

Newfie wrote:Have you ever read Danny Khanerman’s “Thinking: Fast and Slow”. IMHO it’s an excellent book that goes a long way to describe in simple proven terms the limits of our cognitive thought. If you haven’t read it I recommend it.


Waste of time. Plant isn't really capable of acknowledging or dealing with the limits of his cognitive thought.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 14:09:35

ASG,

Have YOU read the book?
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 14:38:13

Missile/mortar attacks reported near US embassy and US airbase in Baghdad

explosions-reported-near-us-embassy-baghdad

Iraqi-Hezbollah has been warning Iraqi army units not to go near US facilities, so it may be that particular group of Muslim extremists carrying out these attacks. They are a shia jihadi group backed by Iran.

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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 14:43:23

asg70 wrote:Keep voting R folks!!!!


So in your world, Obama got us out of Iraq and Afghanistan as he promised, and so we're ONLY there now because of the GOP?

Are you also going to claim Obama didn't order any of the ever popular, civilian killing drone strikes over there -- that the mean GOP was behind all of them as well?

OK then! There's a reason I refuse to belong to either major party, and the political rhetoric from both sides vs. real world events over time is one of them.
Last edited by Outcast_Searcher on Sat 04 Jan 2020, 14:49:09, edited 3 times in total.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 14:44:38

Rock, would have us believe that the interest in the ME, the richest region in the easy to get, process oil and gas is not about these energy sources. Oh, right its about magic carpets :lol:


I suspect you should limit yourself to discussing topics you know at least a bit about, apparently oil and gas is not one of them.
You post an article about oil and gas discovery in Iran suggesting, I assume, that the US wants to go to war with Iran to get its oil. Absurd beyond belief. First of all the US has had ample opportunity to participate in Iran oil and gas for decades and instead have chosen to impose sanctions first back with ILSA and then the more recent sanctions. During that period most other oil and gas producing countries took the opportunity to participate in Iran's oil and gas industry including the French (Total), the Brits (BP), Chinese, Germans, Dutch etc. In other words the US is acting the exact opposite of what a country would do if they wanted Iranian oil. As it stands of US imports 15% come from Saudi Arabia and an additional 3% from other Middle Eastern Countries or about 1.5 MMB/d against a backdrop of US production of 12 MMB/d. It takes a healthy stretch of the imagination to think that the US either needs or badly wants oil from the Middle East. In fact, if they were seriously hard up it needs to be remembered that of all imports 44% come from Canada. Why not just invade Canada given your logic? Would be much easier and many Canadians probably would be OK with the outcome. So once again, your logic is located about the same place as your head is inserted....very little sunlight gets there in case you are wondering.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 14:46:59

OH-oh. We're in trouble now.

The Iranian Mullahs in the Iranian holy city of Qom have raised the red flag of jihad over their ancient mosque.

red-flag-jihad-raised-1000s-mourn-death-suleimani-baghdad

That makes it official. The Shia muslims are now waging jihad (holy war) against the US and its allies.

Image
The Red flag of jihad is now flying above Qom!!!!!

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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 14:53:08

Plantagenet wrote:The Red flag of jihad is now flying above Qom!!!!!

The interesting thing for the US, if this escalates far enough, will be what Cyber capabilities Iran may have against the US.

Given how clueless we are about things like keeping key infrastructure the hell off the internet, I'm not sanguine about that. I hope I'm wrong, of course.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Cog » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 15:10:45

The internet works both ways. Stuxnet anyone?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 17:05:32

Hasn't there been a continuous jihad against the USA since Jimmy Carter?
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 17:12:56

rockdoc123 wrote:
Rock, would have us believe that the interest in the ME, the richest region in the easy to get, process oil and gas is not about these energy sources. Oh, right its about magic carpets :lol:


I suspect you should limit yourself to discussing topics you know at least a bit about, apparently oil and gas is not one of them.
You post an article about oil and gas discovery in Iran suggesting, I assume, that the US wants to go to war with Iran to get its oil. Absurd beyond belief. First of all the US has had ample opportunity to participate in Iran oil and gas for decades and instead have chosen to impose sanctions first back with ILSA and then the more recent sanctions. During that period most other oil and gas producing countries took the opportunity to participate in Iran's oil and gas industry including the French (Total), the Brits (BP), Chinese, Germans, Dutch etc. In other words the US is acting the exact opposite of what a country would do if they wanted Iranian oil. As it stands of US imports 15% come from Saudi Arabia and an additional 3% from other Middle Eastern Countries or about 1.5 MMB/d against a backdrop of US production of 12 MMB/d. It takes a healthy stretch of the imagination to think that the US either needs or badly wants oil from the Middle East. In fact, if they were seriously hard up it needs to be remembered that of all imports 44% come from Canada. Why not just invade Canada given your logic? Would be much easier and many Canadians probably would be OK with the outcome. So once again, your logic is located about the same place as your head is inserted....very little sunlight gets there in case you are wondering.

Rock, you lack imagination. First off, it is also about the ancilliary matters such as the Petro dollar and breaking its monopoly ie. Iran Oil Bourse, Russia/China cooperation in steering away from the dollar etc. But to stay on message, it is also about denying others the oil ,eureka we are getting sonewhere. And as much as you erudite posters want to bismirch Short, if he is even half right about his assertions and calculations, the oil in Canada and US is simply not economically feasible much longer especially without the ME more economical and accessible oil/gas. The pesky EROEI. Oh I forgot you guys have faith in the money mode of accounting. How is that working with endless funny money out of thin air and the corresponding immense and growing Debt. Yes, we have the money to get the oil so that means that EROEI and the commensurate economic descent has been suspended forever :lol: :lol:
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 17:39:31

But to stay on message, it is also about denying others the oil ,eureka we are getting sonewhere. 

Exactly how did they deny anyone oil from Iraq post war or from Iran during ILSA which lasted well over a decade? They didn’t, production just kept going. And in fact, the US government does not want high oil prices, Trump has been beaking off about that numerous times and wanting Saudis to not decrease production. They love low oil prices as it stimulates all businesses who need to purchase oil. As I said, learn something about the facts before posting nonsense.

the oil in Canada and US is simply not economically feasible much longer especially without the ME more economical and accessible oil/gas


If you are a refiner in the US you pay a certain rate for oil no matter where it comes from. The Middle East oil generally has a lower lifting cost but to get it to the US refineries requires transportation. What the refiners pay for a bbl of ME crude is not much different than what they pay for typical crudes out of the US and it is a factor of grade, contaminants and transportation. Oil from Canada is actually cheaper than oil from the US or the Middle East due to grade differential.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Yoshua » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 17:50:02

There have been massive protests in Iran, Iraq and Lebanon against poverty and corruption as their economies are going down the tubes.

There is information that the Quds Force General Suleimani was planing to attack U.S assets and personal in Iraq and Lebanon to force a U.S retaliation.

The U.S retaliation would then direct the anger of the people in the region against the U.S instead and unite them against the U.S...and perhaps even ignite a war against the U.S.

Suleimani might just have managed to do just that.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 20:25:57

Outcast_Searcher wrote:So in your world, Obama got us out of Iraq and Afghanistan as he promised, and so we're ONLY there now because of the GOP?


In my world, his sins pale compared to GW Bush.

Outcast_Searcher wrote:Are you also going to claim Obama didn't order any of the ever popular, civilian killing


I don't consider friends and family of terrorists "civilians" and the #1 advantage of drone strikes is no US body-bags. That's fine in my book. Terrorists don't fight fair and the only way to one-up them is technology.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 04 Jan 2020, 22:47:06

Trump just drew a red line that I hope Iran doesn't cross.

trump-warning-iran-52-targets

Trump tweeted that if Iran "strikes any Americans, or American assets....We have ... targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture" and "if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets... Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD."

We are very close to war with Iran now.

Image
I sincerely hope the Iranians take down their red Jihad flag and don't attack any US facilities.

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WWWIII just started, IRAN is really about China vs USA

Unread postby bochen777 » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 01:50:47

https://unofficialchina.blog/china-us-c ... explained/

Kissinger is credited for giving Nixon the idea to open up China. It appears as the 45 year rapprochement comes to a sudden close, the US has regretted the long term decision. When viewed threw the lens of optimization of entropy maximization and the 2nd law of thermodynamics it is all about the counterbalance needed to an unchallenged US uni-polar scheme that impedes the progress and destiny of a universe in evolution.

Steve Bannon was quoted to say that it is Ten times more important for the US to kill Huawei than it is for Trump to sign any trade deal. USA realizes that China will soon surpass them if status quo isn't changed. The true motive of the trade war is to decouple the US from China quickly enough to asymmetrically target and destroy any tip of the spear Chinese companies/projects/tech such as the Huawei, 5G, DJI, EV, trains, Cancer research, TikTok, SenseTime, etc etc to cripple China's plans to move up the value chain and hi-tech-ify its economy and to do so with enough force to set back China and permanently prevent it from successfully climbing the arch trajectory of replacing the US. For the US it’s not just about losing the top spot to China, if America were to ever lose its petrodollar hegemony it would collapse in much the same way as happened to the USSR. The whole US empire is built on house of cards, ever since Brentwood they got away with taxing/usurping the world using the dollar as economic weaponization through 'quantitative easing' and its military to control OPEC to sustain the petrodollar hegemony. In the 1980's Japan became a threat to the US so they forced Tokyo to acquiesce to the Plaza Accord resulting in the "lost four decades" and Japan never recovering. Nowadays Trump, Steve Bannon, Pompeo and other Hawks are trying to impose the same sort of colonization on China, but much harder to do since China doesn't entertain US troops/US bases unlike the Japanese vassal so the next best thing is to subvert Hong Kong by way of CIA/NED and other propaganda techniques. And which nation killed a million civilians in Iraq after a false flag event and a WMD pretext but now is banning Chinese AI startups ostensibly because they care about the human rights of Muslims in China's internal Xinjiang region?

This is all part of the bigger picture to contain China's continued rise, as we see that if the US ever lost its hegemony it would be game over... America views Chinese ambitions such as Made In China 2025, One Belt One Road, 5G, AI, etc as existential threats to its very lifestyle and way of life, hence the whole "Huawei is a national security issue" stance... Now even TikTok, a dancing video app, has become a "national security" threat and targeted and singled out by the US Congress. By "national security" they really mean China is offering the world a better deal and they are pissed that they are being undercut and view Chinese success as a direct threat to American hegemony. The West had its chance to help out Africa but did nothing, now China wants to help them develop and US is getting resentful, the supreme irony is accusing China of predatory lending. This will only get much worse, Xi predicted this will last a period of 30 years until which time China has become the undisputed Number One in the world economically, technologically, politically and militaristically. As the declining power the US isn’t going to just go down without fighting..... Just like the Roma Empire, as the US declines on the way down the lip service of freedom, democracy, etc stops and the true colors of the ugly side all comes out, they just did another coup in Bolivia after China signed a lithium deal to secure development of batteries for EVs, and now US is even sanctioning its own "allies" like Germany for daring to buy energy from Russia (NordStream 2, etc)...

The time for "bid your time" is over, Xi and China needs to build own microprocessors, own jet engines, etc etc etc before it is too late. And make sure China has a credible nuclear deterrence in place after the START treaty ended unless Xi wants the Chinese people to end up like the Native Americans. It doesn't matter who wins the next election be it Trump or Andrew Yang, the American POTUS doesn't have any real power, even Kissinger stated that all out war is all but inevitable.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby careinke » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 03:29:20

asg70 wrote:I don't consider friends and family of terrorists "civilians" and the #1 advantage of drone strikes is no US body-bags. That's fine in my book. Terrorists don't fight fair and the only way to one-up them is technology.


How about deliberately targeting a US citizen for assasination with no due process??? Which president was that again??
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