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U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 24 Jul 2013, 19:07:47

U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

The impacts of climate change are already occurring: There were 25 climate-related extreme weather events in the United States in the period from 2011 to 2012 that each caused at least $1 billion in damages. Fortunately, U.S. carbon pollution from energy consumption is at its lowest point since 1994, in part because electricity generation by natural gas is replacing electricity generation by coal. The modern fuel-economy standards issued by the Obama administration have reduced emissions as well. Nonetheless, the U.S. Energy Information Administration, or EIA, predicts that U.S. carbon pollution will begin to rise again by the end of this decade.

The United States is currently experiencing a boom in natural-gas production and use due to advances in drilling and extraction technologies. Because natural gas burns more cleanly than other fossil fuels and is currently affordable and abundant, it has been celebrated as a so-called bridge to a clean energy future and climate stabilization. In this scenario, natural gas would significantly displace coal in the electric-power sector, which is the largest sector in terms of primary energy consumption, and serve to balance more intermittent renewable sources of energy while we develop and deploy zero-carbon electricity systems.

This report finds that natural gas has an important role to play in achieving the emissions reductions necessary to stabilize the climate and prevent the worst impacts of global warming. In the near term, natural gas presents opportunities to reduce carbon pollution insofar as it burns more cleanly than coal and can be used to significantly replace coal in the generation of electricity. It also presents opportunities in the transportation sector, as natural-gas vehicles are a cleaner alternative to traditional vehicles and increasingly are being used in both private and public fleets. In addition, the natural-gas expansion may present some near-term economic benefits for middle- and lower-income Americans by creating jobs and stimulating the manufacturing sector.

Beyond the near term, however, there needs to be a swift transition from natural gas to zero-carbon energy, particularly in the generation of electricity. Because the combustion of natural gas produces carbon pollution, albeit less than coal, too much reliance on natural gas over the long term would make it difficult or impossible to meet climate-stabilization targets. Failure to stabilize the climate would increase the frequency and severity of extreme weather events, which have been shown to disproportionately harm middle- and lower-income Americans, and the tremendous cost of disaster relief would erode any short-term economic benefits of the natural-gas boom. In addition, heavy investment in natural-gas generation capacity could crowd out investments in long-term solutions such as wind, solar, wave, and other renewable electricity sources. A rapid shift from natural gas to zero-carbon energy is therefore critical. Our analysis finds that the use of natural gas must peak no later than 17 years from now, in 2030—which is sooner than many policymakers currently realize is necessary—if the United States is to meet its climate goals and avoid the worst impacts of global warming.


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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 24 Jul 2013, 19:25:15

If anything, the trend is to the use of MORE natural gas. Utilities all over the US have re-engineered their power plants to burn NG instead of coal. In the transport sector companies are tooling up to build and sell NG cars and trucks, and other companies are building out NG gas stations. And with regard to climate change, our government has been boasting that the increasing use of NG is REDUCING CO2 emissions in the USA, because it is cleaner than coal.

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Obama says the USA has a "100 year supply" of NG. It seems unlike that we'll turn away from NG anytime soon, given this endorsement of NG by our President.
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby Subjectivist » Wed 24 Jul 2013, 19:32:01

The problem is the more you use the more you spill. It is almost garunteed that if the usa doubles methane use that methane releases will double as well, and doubling methane would be even worse than the CO2 offset.
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 24 Jul 2013, 23:18:38

Subjectivist wrote:It is almost garunteed that if the usa doubles methane use that methane releases will double as well


Not really. The whole idea is to BURN the natural gas for energy, not to accidentally release it. :)
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 25 Jul 2013, 09:00:09

Plantagenet wrote:
Subjectivist wrote:It is almost garunteed that if the usa doubles methane use that methane releases will double as well


Not really. The whole idea is to BURN the natural gas for energy, not to accidentally release it. :)


I know combustion is 100% efficient but leave that aside for the moment. Doesn't coal mining release a lot of methane as they ventilate the seam so it is safe for the workers? Would that make China the number one coal mining country also the number one fossil methane emitter?
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 25 Jul 2013, 10:13:03

Tanada - Yep...lots of other sources of methane both natural and manmade. I don't recall the numbers but years ago I saw a report about the huge amount of methane released by livestock. But at times these discussions seem to miss the basic point: regardless of the type of hydrocarbon consumed and how much GHG each component creates the fact is that there is no indication that ff consumption will decrease. Switching from coal to NG will decrease the relative amount of GHG produced but it will still represent an increase in GHG production. If overnight all cars were converted to CNG it would mean less GHG than if we were burning gasoline but we would still be creating more GHG as the number of vehicles, especially in China, is increased.

All the chatter seems to cover up the fact the world is continuing to maintain the amount of GHG produced with no apparent reason to expect that fact to change anytime soon.
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 25 Jul 2013, 11:10:28

ROCKMAN wrote:Tanada - Yep...lots of other sources of methane both natural and manmade. I don't recall the numbers but years ago I saw a report about the huge amount of methane released by livestock. But at times these discussions seem to miss the basic point: regardless of the type of hydrocarbon consumed and how much GHG each component creates the fact is that there is no indication that ff consumption will decrease. Switching from coal to NG will decrease the relative amount of GHG produced but it will still represent an increase in GHG production. If overnight all cars were converted to CNG it would mean less GHG than if we were burning gasoline but we would still be creating more GHG as the number of vehicles, especially in China, is increased.

All the chatter seems to cover up the fact the world is continuing to maintain the amount of GHG produced with no apparent reason to expect that fact to change anytime soon.



As I seem to remember when the USSR crumbled in the early 1990's the atmospheric methane levels actually dipped for a few years. Many speculated why but one possible answer was when they economically suffered they stopped drilling new oil wells and flaring off the natural gas. Because combustion is never 100% efficient especially in something like a flare where the gas is not tightly controlled in its mixture rate with the air lots of unburnt methane which starts out lighter than air gets heated and drafted upward with the steam and smoke from the flare. I have also read that during the early 1990's the USA delivery companies did a lot of work upgrading, replacing older pipelines and valves with newer ones with better seals. The truth is probably a combination of many factors.

Unfortunately I agree, sooner or later humans will burn it all, if we burn more methane now it just means we will burn more coal later. If we burn more coal now we will just burn more methane later. Pick any of the carbon based fossil fuels and it works out the same way, switching between them does nothing much to improve the situation.
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 25 Jul 2013, 12:09:00

Tanada - Not only burn it all but as oil and NG increasing fail to meet demand the push to coal will accelerate IMHO. I find it the height of hypocrisy that the US govt is bragging about it “policies” that will help end AGW at the same time that the US has become the 4th largest coal exporter on the planet. At a time when the US has increased its coal exports to China by hundreds of percent in just the last several years. At the same time the govt has offered over 1 million acres of offshore leases. At a time when the current administration has issued hundreds of offshore drill permits…some close to the Macondo blow out. And then the absolute garbage propaganda by the coal industry that govt policies are crippling them while they are earning all time record incomes from their operations in the US.

I’m not so much condemning the production of any ff…that’s just business. But to hear all the verbiage trying to make the public think any serious effort to change BAU is very irritating.
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 25 Jul 2013, 17:57:29

I think the smarter younger generation will demand that our energy system be decarbonized completely during the twenty twenties.
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby ritter » Fri 26 Jul 2013, 13:42:42

Graeme wrote:I think the smarter younger generation will demand that our energy system be decarbonized completely during the twenty twenties.


Great. How?
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 26 Jul 2013, 13:53:14

ritter - Exactly. A 6 yo child can demand ice cream and cake for dinner. Unless the little bastard pulls a gun he'll eat his broccoli and shut up. LOL.

Minorities in this country demanded equal rights for years. Words got them no where. Much of the world demanded that Russia tear down that Wall. Words didn't bring the Wall down. It seldom matters how just the causes may be if they are held by the minority. It will take either a majority or direct and meaningful ACTION by a minority to change BAU.
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby John_A » Fri 26 Jul 2013, 13:57:32

ritter wrote:
Graeme wrote:I think the smarter younger generation will demand that our energy system be decarbonized completely during the twenty twenties.


Great. How?


Exactly the way it has been going on for years. Keep up the windpower doublings, ( 4+ since 1999 in the US), let us get some more free thinking power companies going:

http://www.southerncompany.com/what-doi ... ome.cshtml

and of course there is more and more of these as prices continue to fall, with luck in the near future they will be demanded by building code:

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All of this stuff is happening now, it sure isn't going to stop anytime soon, and as growth in these areas is matched with zero growth in crude oil growth (as has been going on for 8 years now) that is decarboning as we go! The kids will just make it happen faster as the fossil fuel industries continue to be demonized, which is okay, because giving the things up is, and will continue to be, good for us!
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 26 Jul 2013, 14:04:28

John_A wrote:as growth in these areas is matched with zero growth in crude oil growth (as has been going on for 8 years now) that is decarboning as we go! The kids will just make it happen faster as the fossil fuel industries continue to be demonized, which is okay, because giving the things up is, and will continue to be, good for us!


It sounds nice but it doesn't match the facts.

Global consumption of FF is UP, not down. The global emissions of CO2 went UP last year at the fastest rate ever.

The facts are clear---there is no decarboning.

The growth in coal, oil, and NG use in China and India continues at a rate so large as to swamp any "decarboning" in the USA.

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The consumption of FF continues to INCREASE not decrease. "Decarboning" isn't happening.
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby dcoyne78 » Fri 26 Jul 2013, 22:15:19

Just because something has not happened in the past does not mean it will never happen. Think airplanes, computers, space flight, automobiles, smart phones.

As fossil fuels deplete they will become more expensive. As that happens and technological progress brings down the price of windpower, solar, hybrid and EV autos as well as increased demand for public transport and transit oriented development, carbon dioxide emissions may be reduced.

It would be helpful if the public became more aware of the reality of global warming. One day denial of the reality of "the theory" of global warming will be seen as equivalent to denial of "the theory" that the earth is roughly an ellipsoid.

Are you kidding? The earth is not flat, whodda thunk it!

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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 26 Jul 2013, 22:58:11

dcoyne78 wrote:As fossil fuels deplete ... carbon dioxide emissions may be reduced.


Yes but there are 147 YEARS of coal reserves proved up at current world demand levels, and much much more coal still to be found.

If carbon dioxide emissions aren't going to be reduced until all the coal is depleted, then we will have put so much CO2 into the atmosphere that Greenland and much of Antarctica will melt and sea levels will rise 30+ feet.

It would be much smarter to curtail burning coal now, rather than waiting until it is mostly depleted. :roll:

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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby Graeme » Fri 26 Jul 2013, 23:07:44

ROCKMAN wrote:ritter - Exactly. A 6 yo child can demand ice cream and cake for dinner. Unless the little bastard pulls a gun he'll eat his broccoli and shut up. LOL.

Minorities in this country demanded equal rights for years. Words got them no where. Much of the world demanded that Russia tear down that Wall. Words didn't bring the Wall down. It seldom matters how just the causes may be if they are held by the minority. It will take either a majority or direct and meaningful ACTION by a minority to change BAU.


I recall that the wall actually came down, don't you?
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby JV153 » Fri 22 Nov 2013, 04:17:21

According to the United States Energy Information Administration (EIA), a little more than a third of US nat gas production is from shale gas, which came on line during the previous 8 years or so. There was a huge spike in nat gas and oil prices (and everything else) in 2005-2008 which stimulated oil and nat gas shale fracking in the US. However, there have been some serious declines in US conventional gas production and I doubt US nat gas prod will ever much surpass it's current levels.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/n9070us2A.htm, US dry nat gas production
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/na1170_nus_8a.htm, # of producing gas and gas condensate wells
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/res_epg ... s_bcfa.htm, US nat gas
from unconventional (shale gas)

Footage drilled for crude oil and nat gas - EIA not reporting these data after
2008
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_crd_wellfoot_s1_a.htm

Costs of crude oil and nat gas production, EIA not reporting data after 2007
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_crd_wellcost_s1_a.htm
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby Strummer » Fri 22 Nov 2013, 05:54:43

dcoyne78 wrote:Just because something has not happened in the past does not mean it will never happen. Think airplanes, computers, space flight, automobiles, smart phones.


And just because something has happened once or twice does not mean is will happen again and again.

Western civilization has been spoiled by the constant progression between 1492 and 1970, thinking that such expansion (fueled first by the exploitation of newly discovered continents and then by the exploitation of fossil fuels) can go on forever.
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 22 Nov 2013, 11:32:41

JV - "I doubt US nat gas prod will ever much surpass its current levels." Not saying you're either right or wrong, but what are your NG price assumptions used to make this prediction? As has been pointed out numerous time any such prediction, say for oil from the Bakken/Eagle Ford Shale, has to be based on a price prediction. X number of B/EFS wells will be drilled at $100/bbl. A much smaller number will be drilled at $60/bbl. One cannot accurately predict the number of those wells to be drilled without first accurately predicting the future price of oil. Recent history shows how true this has been for NG. When those prices rose above $10/mcf drilling, and thus production, boomed. And when prices collapsed the rig count for drilling for NG dropped almost 80%. Obviously any prediction of future NG production rates back in ‘08 based on the assumption of $10+/mcf was proven wrong.

Likewise there was a valid reason in 2000 for no one topredict a boom in the oil shale drilling activity we have now based upon the price of oil at that time. The US has a huge volume of NG in the ground both onshore and offshore. How much and how quickly that will be developed will be a function of the future price of NG. Do I assume correctly that your prediction of no significant increase in US NG production is based upon the assumption of continued low prices?
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Re: U.S. Natural-Gas Use Must Peak by 2030

Unread postby John_A » Fri 22 Nov 2013, 11:34:36

ritter wrote:
Graeme wrote:I think the smarter younger generation will demand that our energy system be decarbonized completely during the twenty twenties.


Great. How?


More of the same obviously. Once that exponential increase starts going your way, as this US example is, it is only a matter of time before it takes over.

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