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THE Window Thread (merged)

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: I just taped aluminum foil to some of my windows

Unread postby Blueberry » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 07:33:27

Just wanted to say thanks to whomever mentioned the black out fabric. I didn't know that they made that and will be getting some.
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Re: I just taped aluminum foil to some of my windows

Unread postby gampy » Tue 07 Nov 2006, 08:36:31

For those interested in tinfoil over the windows, be aware that indoor marijuana grow ops use this method to maximise the light the plants receive from the grow lamps they use.

Be prepared to explain your...ummm....motivations.
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Re: I just taped aluminum foil to some of my windows

Unread postby uNkNowN ElEmEnt » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 14:28:28

I use the bubble wrap insulation used for insulating your hot water tank. The bubbles give you a little extra insulation and its white on one side and silver on teh other so it doesn't look like an eye sore to both sides, and you can flip it.

Its also stiffer and easier to hold in place and reuse. Having double windows its easy to put between the windows.
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Re: I just taped aluminum foil to some of my windows

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Wed 08 Nov 2006, 14:58:53

I've never heard of using aluminum foil on windows for energy conservation. I have seen it recommended for use on bedroom windows for shift workers to block out light and improve sleep.

Where do you live that you are trying to cool your house in November?
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: I just taped aluminum foil to some of my windows

Unread postby zoidberg » Mon 13 Nov 2006, 22:16:01

Doly wrote:
NeoPeasant wrote:Giving up the Simpsons was the among the toughest parts of eliminating television from my life a few years ago.


Not knowing much about the Simpsons is one of the greatest things of not having had television in my life, ever.


Hence thousands of posts at peakoil.com? Replace one screen with another?

TV is fun and genuinely entertaining. The fact I earn my living from people with cable TV doesnt influence me at all.
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Window insulation in summer

Unread postby HamRadioRocks » Fri 16 Feb 2007, 22:17:50

I really want to save energy on air conditioning this summer, even though I spend far more on heating than air conditioning and am a 100% participant in the Alliant Energy Second Nature program. Air conditioning is a flagrant example of positive feedback, because burning fossil fuels to cool our buildings exacerbates the very heat we're trying to shield ourselves from. Since I'm not about to live in a hotter house until I'm forced to (above 80 degrees is oppressive, so I keep it at 79), I will install a timer for the window air conditioner, I will use the aluminum foil trick again, and I will shade the air conditioner again with a tarp hanging from the awning above.

But the one thing I haven't addressed and don't already have a solution for is insulation to keep the hot, humid air outside and the cooler, drier air inside (the exact opposite of the goal in winter).

The plastic window insulation and rope caulking for the drafty windows have been handy for conserving energy in winter.

I know that the windows are just drafty in summer as they are in winter, even though the much smaller temperature difference between the inside and outside air makes this much less noticeable. So insulation will be just as important then as it is now. When you take into account the storm windows rope caulking, and plastic insulation I use in winter, you'll find that my windows are MUCH draftier in summer.

The trouble with the plastic window insulation and rope caulking are the fact that they make it more difficult to open the windows, which is something I occasionally want to do in summer. Opening the windows does conserve energy at certain times, such cool, dry evenings that follow warm, sunny days (in other words, periods when the house is hot but the air outside is cool).

What do you think? Are there any good alternatives to sealing up the house? Do any of you go to the trouble of switching back to storm windows for every heat wave?
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Re: Window insulation in summer

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 18 Feb 2007, 18:25:44

I live in a hot climate and we don't air condition our house, only our work spaces. But it is relatively dry here, which helps fans be more efficient at cooling. If you own your home, in a hot climate you may consider not having any glazing at all on the West side, or quite small windows, or make sure any windows you have are completely shaded. We have awnings, window film, and blinds on our West windows, and my plan is to eventually replace the big cheap windows we have with smaller, double-glazed ones, or put a veranda on that side of the house.

For winter, I plan to make thermal shades for the inside of some of the windows, and a similar thing could be used during the summer especially on the hot side of the house.

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Re: Window insulation in summer

Unread postby snax » Wed 28 Feb 2007, 00:48:02

Although not as attractive as a thermal shade, rigid foam blocks cut to window size, covered with veneer on both sides and wrapped in fabric make terrific insulators at the expense of daylight. Hinged to the inside casing, they can be opened or closed tightly with relative ease.

Likewise, exterior shading can make a huge difference on heat gain in the structure. Even if it's just a bunch of bamboo rollups hanging from the eaves, keeping the sun off of the sides of the house and windows makes a noticeable impact.
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Re: I just taped aluminum foil to some of my windows

Unread postby Calicocat » Thu 17 Apr 2008, 23:58:15

Doly wrote:
NeoPeasant wrote:Giving up the Simpsons was the among the toughest parts of eliminating television from my life a few years ago.
Not knowing much about the Simpsons is one of the greatest things of not having had television in my life, ever.

I'm researching the window foil concept so i can enjoy watching more TV during the day time!
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Re: I just taped aluminum foil to some of my windows

Unread postby BigTex » Tue 22 Apr 2008, 19:18:45

If you want to do something nice for yourself and your neighbors, do this:

Purchase a few sheets of radiant sheathing. It's got foil on both sides and has a quarter inch or so of foam in between. The sheets have an R-value of 7-10, in addition to the ability to reflect radiant heat.

Purchase some material that is more or less the color of a tasteful curtain. Lighter is probably better.

Cut pieces of this material to the size of your window openings so that you can place it into the window cutout (if there is one). If there is not a window cutout, make the piece a size the will cover the window with a little overhang all around and you can secure it to the window frame or wall in a variety of ways.

Now, this is the important part, cover the area that is going to face out with the fabric you purchased. From the outside, it should just look like a piece of fabric over the window, not some hillbilly peak oil mitigation strategy.

You can cover the inside part of the sheets with the fabric if you want as well, but I am thinking that there will probably be blinds or curtains covering the inserts you made.

I have tried radiant barrier materials with the reflective sides exposed on both sides, exposed on the side facing the sun and exposed on the side facing away from the sun. I haven't noticed a big difference in performance, notwithstanding what the science would suggest.

This is just an approach that will give you real additional window insulation, block the heat and the light, and not drag your neighbor's property values down too much.

Using the bubble foil mentioned above with thick cardboard in between could be used to achieve the same effect of a fitted window covering. Use aluminum tape with the bubble foil to make the edges look clean.
:)
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Re: I just taped aluminum foil to some of my windows

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Tue 06 May 2008, 04:16:26

There is "emergency blanket" or "space blanket" from camping stores or "dollar stores". I paid $1.50 for 52" x 82" (132 x 210 cm.).

This is thin mylar with an aluminium coating.

The advantage is, you are not messing with taping 1' wide strips so it is easy to take off and re-use seasonally..

Also, the coating is so thin that you can see outside through it.

(EDIT - so you can save the aluminum foil to line your hat)
Last edited by Keith_McClary on Sat 10 May 2008, 03:23:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I just taped aluminum foil to some of my windows

Unread postby Ferretlover » Tue 06 May 2008, 09:47:51

Whatever you use, I would suggest that you invite a neighbor in, or discuss it with your landlord or neighbors, so that you aren't sitting around making lists or watching tv or taking a shower when Law Enforcement breaks your door down looking for a meth lab or marijuana plot.

edited to fix spelling error.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Mon 25 Aug 2008, 18:03:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I just taped aluminum foil to some of my windows

Unread postby vandal49588 » Sat 24 May 2008, 19:44:02

I replaced my windows with a 5.7mm thick gray reflective glass. Most homes have 2.2mm-3.1mm thick glass. I did this for little or no money since I just happened to work in a glass factory.
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Re: THE Window Thread (merged)

Unread postby energytech » Tue 01 Jul 2008, 03:22:51

Ok, pay attention.
Rule One -Heat always travels from Hot -to- Cold
Rule Two -Heat energy only travels three ways.
1. Conduction (through solids, metal, wood, glass, etc.)
2. Convection (through liquids, air, gases, water, oil, etc.)
3. Radiation (through space, radiant heat only heats the objects it strikes - like sunlight on your back with a dark shirt on)

All three heat transfer mechanisms are active in windows.

Radiation from the sun passes through the glass and warms surfaces in your home.

Conduction of heat through the glass warms the air in your home causing heat to convect upward on hot days and downward on cold days.

Convection, or rising warmer air and falling colder (more dense) air occurs against the inside and outside surfaces of windows and also on the gas filling inside, between multiple panes.

In a douple pane window on a hot day, (with AC on) heat from outside passes(conducts) through the exterior pane of glass and warms the molecules of gas resting against it causing them to spread apart (expand) and become lighter than air further away - but within the space. This boundry layer of gas rises because it is now slighty warmer than air in the middle of the gap. As it continues upward it takes on more heat energy and accellerates. At the top of the window it jams up against the spacer, floats over to the cooler interior glass surface and becomes more dense as it gives up heat to the cool interior pane, which causes it to fall.

This rotating motion is, in effect, a convection loop, transfering heat to the interior pane of glass from the warmer exterior pane and increasing heat transfer in the process.

Insulation works by trapping air or gasses and minimizing heat transfer by conduction and convection.

Radiation is reduced by low emissivity films that reflect long wave infrared waves. When such radiation is reflected back to the outside of the glass it reduces solar radiation input into the building. When the film is placed to face the inside it reflects the heat (long wave IR) back to the interior. These films are a fairly recent advance in window technology and provide rapid pay-backs in both warm and cold climates providing placement is correct for the environments.

Multiple panes of glass separate air films from each other making transfer by convection difficult. Optimum air gap thickness is between 1/2 to 3/4 inch... with air. A heavy nobel gas such as Aargon or Krypton improve convection protection by making it difficult for convection to take place within the gap between panes. Such gases contain large molecules which are heavy and difficult to mobilize. This means that moving them is more difficult than common air filling which is mostly nitrogen (78%) and oxygen (21%), containing much smaller molecules and easy to get moving.

Conduction through windows is best reduced by using insulated spacers such as warm edge or squiggle strip (TM) which impede heat conduction at the edges where it is greatest. Insulated spacers with Krypton gas filling and multiple panes having multiple low emissivity films make great windows no matter what the climate. When placed into insulated fiberglass frames you can have a view with comfort, low heat loss and minimal maintenance.

If you are buying new windows, go for the best available product. Buying junk window products costs more, and it doesn't save a thing. High quality lasts longer, performs to higher standards, saves more energy, improves comfort and actually has a payback. And who knows if they will be available when you really need them as energy costs continue to rise?
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Re: THE Window Thread (merged)

Unread postby snax » Tue 01 Jul 2008, 10:33:16

I think somebody is in the window business.
In a douple pane window on a hot day, (with AC on) heat from outside passes(conducts) through the exterior pane of glass and warms the molecules of gas resting against it causing them to spread apart (expand) and become lighter than air further away - but within the space. This boundry layer of gas rises because it is now slighty warmer than air in the middle of the gap. As it continues upward it takes on more heat energy and accellerates. At the top of the window it jams up against the spacer, floats over to the cooler interior glass surface and becomes more dense as it gives up heat to the cool interior pane, which causes it to fall.

This suggests to me that crossbars between the panes are good for efficiency, if they don't solidly contact more than one pane of glass, because they break up the convective loop.
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Re: THE Window Thread (merged)

Unread postby criticalmass » Mon 25 Aug 2008, 15:10:34

Solar curtains can be purchased at wdrake.com or mileskimball.com. They are made from a similar material as emergency blankets and do a great job of keeping the sun out in the summer and the heat in in the winter.

Yes, they do darken a room in the daytime.
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Re: THE Window Thread (merged)

Unread postby Frank » Wed 27 Aug 2008, 09:34:15

We generally install some shrink wrap plastic on the north facing and one or two east or west facing windows that are tree-shaded. It's cheap, fast and adds insulation value. No loss of insolation as there's no direct sunlight on those sides.
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Insulating Windows

Unread postby GoghGoner » Mon 29 Dec 2008, 14:03:36

Interesting design for interior insulating windows here:
LINK

I started to replace my old (historic?) 1920s windows with energy efficient windows, however, after replacing two of fourteen windows I decided that keeping the original windows might be the smartest thing to do. I don't know if any window on the market is going to last as long as these. It is very easy to replace broken glass also.

I have shrink-wrapped a couple of windows this winter but I don't like that the product cannot be used again next year. I have been thinking about better fitting the storm windows and applying weather stripping. I have also read some of a book about thermal shutters and shades, however, I really think the design provided in the link above is quite good and fits my situation. I imagine even adding these interior windows to new energy-star windows would reduce significant heat loss.

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Re: Insulating Windows

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 29 Dec 2008, 14:24:07

I just glanced through the link site. Interesting.

I have a 1887 house that settled shortly after being built. As a result the widows are trapezoidal and historic. We are having side windows replaced but for the bay windows we made up 1x2 frames with polyethylene sheeting that I screwed into the frames.

Not great but much better than nothing.

May refine this method next year or look to the site you posted.

Thanks
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Re: Insulating Windows

Unread postby blukatzen » Mon 29 Dec 2008, 19:13:11

GoghGoner wrote:Interesting design for interior insulating windows here:
LINK
I started to replace my old (historic?) 1920s windows with energy efficient windows, however, after replacing two of fourteen windows I decided that keeping the original windows might be the smartest thing to do..


Thanks for that link! Here in Chicago, we've got lots of bungalows, and many of them have stained glass artwork, and they are very valuable as you cannot get them made that way again for the price of the windows. Especially in a bungalow that has a bay-window called an "octagon". Usually, they have beautiful windows. I often wondered how they'd get them replaced, when the window frames and the whole mechanism finally gave way. Lots of them are now 80 plus some years old.

We decided to get thermal windows for our bungalow. (alas, we did not start out with the stained glass windows) but we were able to get windows that have an etched glass design in a diamond pattern at the corners that are just in line with the "bungalow initiative" that our Mayor has to preserve the design integrity of this housing stock. So, in doing this, we actually INCREASED the value of the house, it *looks* like something from the 20's (house was built in '26.) and we have modern working windows.

However, on our kitchen redo (former owner did this during the late
70's, early 80's) he put in a picture window (overlooking the backyard) with 2 casement window on the side that leak like crazy. I've went to my local hardware store and have gotten thick poly-plastic cut and sized to fit inside my glass window, and we use clear tape around the windows to seal the drafts.

It's a little better, because we have animals, and if you use shrink wrap, you will find in less than one afternoon, a paw or a cat nail will shred the plastic because they want to see what's going on outside (territory issues always, or they want to see the birds or squirrels.) This was stronger and cheaper in the long run.

I saw 2 doors down from me, that a neighbor has made this, but put this around the outside frame of his window in the backyard. I probably will do so in the next season, but I am speaking to my husband about replacing those windows because anything the former owner did, he did poorly, and the insulation around there needs reinforcing.

Oh, the joys of homeownership....

Meanwhile, the cats are looking out the windows at the squirrel..

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