mcgowanjm wrote:Just like yeast, humans will make nature's greatest beer/bread.
shortonsense wrote:mcgowanjm wrote:Just like yeast, humans will make nature's greatest beer/bread.
Yeah..uummmmm..somehow I think you missed the point.
Energy is different. Once you turn the energy content of a few million bushels of grain into a pyramid, say, by using the grain to feed workers who cut and haul the stones, that energy is gone, and you cannot turn the pyramid back into grain; all you can do is wait until the next harvest. If that harvest fails, and the stored energy in the granaries has already been turned into pyramids, neither the market economy of goods and services or the abstract system of distributing goods and services can make up for it. Nor, of course, can you send an extra ten thousand workers into the fields if you don't have the grain to keep them alive.
The peoples of agrarian civilizations generally understood this. It's part of the tragedy of the modern world that most people nowadays do not, even though our situation is not all that different from theirs.
mcgowanjm wrote:shortonsense wrote:mcgowanjm wrote:Just like yeast, humans will make nature's greatest beer/bread.
Yeah..uummmmm..somehow I think you missed the point.
Nope. And I knew almost exactly what Forbes would say, cause
I was reading it when Shark eyes Forbes daddy Malcolm was flying
around in all of those weird shaped balloons.
mcgowanjm wrote:Energy is different. Once you turn the energy content of a few million bushels of grain into a pyramid, say, by using the grain to feed workers who cut and haul the stones, that energy is gone, and you cannot turn the pyramid back into grain; all you can do is wait until the next harvest.
like_the_dinosaurs wrote:Huber, Peter; Mark P. Mills (2005). The Bottomless Well: The twilight of Fuel, The Virtue of Waste and Why we will Never Run Out Of Energy
Rock on cornies. YEEE HAAAA
Once again I question why are you here........................
I dont hang around morman forums and post charles darwin links so why post this stuff here..........
Um, if energy broken down into heat was really irretrievable, we wouldn't have ICEs or power plants. They both burn FFs or whatever, turn them into irretrievable heat, and retrieve mechanical, then electrical power, in different proportions from that irretrievable heat.like_the_dinosaurs wrote:Entropy – energy broken down in irretrievable heat
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
yesplease wrote:Um, if energy broken down into heat was really irretrievable, we wouldn't have ICEs or power plants. They both burn FFs or whatever, turn them into irretrievable heat, and retrieve mechanical, then electrical power, in different proportions from that irretrievable heat.like_the_dinosaurs wrote:Entropy – energy broken down in irretrievable heat
So then, if not heat, what magical form of energy is released by combustion?Homesteader wrote:Your physics teacher, if you had one, would be ashamed.yesplease wrote:Um, if energy broken down into heat was really irretrievable, we wouldn't have ICEs or power plants. They both burn FFs or whatever, turn them into irretrievable heat, and retrieve mechanical, then electrical power, in different proportions from that irretrievable heat.like_the_dinosaurs wrote:Entropy – energy broken down in irretrievable heat
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
pstarr wrote:Is yesplease confused, a bored troll, a oil-company plant, or a psycho? Strange times these
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
yesplease wrote:So then, if not heat, what magical form of energy is released by combustion?Homesteader wrote:Your physics teacher, if you had one, would be ashamed.yesplease wrote:Um, if energy broken down into heat was really irretrievable, we wouldn't have ICEs or power plants. They both burn FFs or whatever, turn them into irretrievable heat, and retrieve mechanical, then electrical power, in different proportions from that irretrievable heat.like_the_dinosaurs wrote:Entropy – energy broken down in irretrievable heat
yesplease wrote:Um, if energy broken down into heat was really irretrievable, we wouldn't have ICEs or power plants. They both burn FFs or whatever, turn them into irretrievable heat, and retrieve mechanical, then electrical power, in different proportions from that irretrievable heat.
Ludi wrote:yesplease wrote:Um, if energy broken down into heat was really irretrievable, we wouldn't have ICEs or power plants. They both burn FFs or whatever, turn them into irretrievable heat, and retrieve mechanical, then electrical power, in different proportions from that irretrievable heat.
After you have used that energy (heat) to run your power plant, how do you retrieve it?
The energy (heat) has been used for work. How do you now retrieve it? If you can not retrieve it, in what way is it not "irretrievable"? If it is retrievable, isn't that a perpetual motion machine? Where is the evidence of such a thing?
<<<< never took physics
That's just the problem, if it's irretrievable heat, as like_the_dinosaurs claimed, it can't be used in the first place, it's irretrievable after all.Ludi wrote:After you have used that energy (heat) to run your power plant, how do you retrieve it?yesplease wrote:Um, if energy broken down into heat was really irretrievable, we wouldn't have ICEs or power plants. They both burn FFs or whatever, turn them into irretrievable heat, and retrieve mechanical, then electrical power, in different proportions from that irretrievable heat.
Like I said before, if it's irretrievable, it can't be used for work, that's what irretrievable means. Then again, saying it's irretrievable is bunk. In general, the amount of work available depends on the difference in temperatures given whatever material limits are present. A saying like "irretrievable heat" is irrational nonsense, and seems to be indicative of this forums unfortunately. It's not about heat having some characteristic that makes it irretrievable, if it was, combustion (among other things) and the universe as we know it wouldn't exist. It's about what kind of difference in temperature we're looking at given whatever engine. Different engines are designed to work under different conditions, and so on... Practically speaking, the lowest temperature difference that can be exploited is a degree F or so.Ludi wrote:The energy (heat) has been used for work. How do you now retrieve it? If you can not retrieve it, in what way is it not "irretrievable"? If it is retrievable, isn't that a perpetual motion machine? Where is the evidence of such a thing?
<<<< never took physics
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
Quinny wrote:So where are these 100% efficient machines you're describing?
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