[Caoimhan]

What does it cost, in energy terms, to raise a child?

I suggest that one of the best things we can do for the planet is to restrict our procreation.

Even better, those in the 1st world, who can afford to do so, should consider adopting a child or two from a poverty stricken nation instead of breeding our own.

[Motel]

Pre-emptive dieoff?

[Caoimhan]

There is no doubt in my mind that reduction in population will be a major component in reducing our demand for energy.

Either it will happen sensibly and sanely, or it will happen through war, pestilence, famine, and disease (the 4 horsemen).

Condoms or bullets... its our choice.

[BorneoRagnarok]

The best energy saving technology is swords on foreign kids as mentioned in the Bible or Conan the Barbarian

[gego]

There is no doubt in my mind that reduction in population will be a major component in reducing our demand for energy.
Either it will happen sensibly and sanely, or it will happen through war, pestilence, famine, and disease (the 4 horsemen).
Condoms or bullets... its our choice.

Way, way, way too late!

[Caoimhan]

Actually, I believe that war and disease will deal with a great many people in the PO decline... but the fewer children we have, the less energy we will spend in raising them.
And I agree about becoming a foster parent or adopting locally. That's great, too!

But the reason I like adopting from other countries is that many 3rd world countries aren't restricting their own reproductive rates (and thanks to a certain Church that thinks birth control is sinful), while the 1st world birth rates are declining, anyway. 3rd world babies are born into a another generation of poverty, but if adopted, could grow up in a wealthier nation, with better education and better opportunities for success.

[Ludi]

Not much to do with race, a lot to do with standard of living. The average American uses about 30 times the resources as the average Indian. The US, with 5% of the world's population, uses 25% of the world's energy resources.
But you can make a racial issue of it if you want to.
*shrug*

[Ludi]

Oh by the way, I understand the mods are cracking down on racist posts, so you might want to clean up yer act a tad there, Nik.

[gg3]

Re. adopting babies from overpopulated countries:
That's called being an "enabler" or "co-dependent." Like cleaning up a substance abuser's puke-soaked and poop-stained clothes & bedding, it just gives them the impression that they can keep doing what they're doing and "someone else" will take care of the side effects.

What I suggest instead is...
1) Total immigration ban on anyone coming in from countries in the top 10% of birth rates. If they want to breed like mice, they can eat each others' offspring like mice.
2) Sliding scale from there on down to countries with ZPG or negative population growth (NPG), who should be able to migrate freely anywhere they choose.
3) And to be consistent, the world would be well served by imposing similar restrictions on raw materials exports to countries that are in the top 10% of resource wastage. Yes, this will cost us here in the good ol' USA, but that's the price we pay for our own substance abuse (resource wastage) habits.
4) Meanwhile, a class action suit against the Catholic Church, demanding that it pay for the costs of feeding, clothing, and sheltering all those babies that result from its stand against birth control. The Pope can put his money where his mouth is, or...
5) Powerdown and negative population growth by the least coercive means possible. Free condom distribution. Promote non-PV forms of sexuality, starting with masturbation. In fact I'd go so far as to do what Clinton's one-time secretary of health hinted at (and got fired for hinting at): Teach masturbation in school, starting about 6th grade. How's this for a slogan: "Spill seed, not blood!"
6) Realistically, none of this is going to happen. Instead what's more likely is the full-on overshoot & collapse routine, four horsemen included, while (to quote HG Wells), humanity "struggles and sinks in a morass, like a blind, stricken thing."

[0mar]

Condoms won't help now. Zero population growth means that we'll have about 9 billion people in 2050.

The only way to fix the population problem is a massive increase in the death rate.

[Caoimhan]

China has the authoritarian government that can do the 1 child restriction.

India is distributing free condoms to its people (and many of them end up being used by the clothing industry... they use the high grade lubricant to keep thread from binding in the sewing machines).

If an Archbishop can grant a blanket indulgence for Irish to eat corned beef this Friday (St. Patrick's Day), then certainly, we can grant an indulgence to all Catholics to use condoms.

[gg3]

The grand irony of course, is that over in the Bird Flu topic, many of us are clucking fretfully about how to prevent "the worst of it," i.e. a billion or more deaths.

The choices are: birth rate down, or death rate up. The former can be done voluntarily. The latter will happen if we don't.

[Caoimhan]

That's exactly what I'm saying, gg.

A global pandemic that kills of billions of people would be a terrible tragedy of monumental proportions, but the silver lining behind that cloud would be a second lease on life for mankind as a species.

[skeptik]

Has anyone addressed body bags in the their preps?

No...Im sticking to Snickers bars and plenty of spare ink cartridges for my printer...

[Caoimhan]

Has anyone addressed body bags in the their preps?

I think a good supply of lighter fluid would work best. As they say in Germany, "Feuer totet Alles" ("Fire kills everything")

[Seth]

Quick correction: China DOES NOT have a one child policy in place anymore.

Reducing population growth rates to 0% would NOT result in 9 billion people by 2050. The global population growth rate is (Birth Rate) minus (Death Rate). A 0% growth rate = stable population--no increases or decreases.

While we are obviously all concerned about feeding 6-9 billion people in a post oil world, the implications of a massive die off (whether by disease, war, famine, or aliens) are pretty severe for those who survive. If you think the world economy is f-ed up right now, just wait until we lose 1/3 of our planet's population.

Don't get me wrong--I'm all for it (there is no other way to limit our consumption)--we just have to think about the ramifications.

[0mar]

Quick correction: China DOES NOT have a one child policy in place anymore.
Reducing population growth rates to 0% would NOT result in 9 billion people by 2050. The global population growth rate is (Birth Rate) minus (Death Rate). A 0% growth rate = stable population--no increases or decreases.
While we are obviously all concerned about feeding 6-9 billion people in a post oil world, the implications of a massive die off (whether by disease, war, famine, or aliens) are pretty severe for those who survive. If you think the world economy is f-ed up right now, just wait until we lose 1/3 of our planet's population.
Don't get me wrong--I'm all for it (there is no other way to limit our consumption)--we just have to think about the ramifications.

A 0% population growth will yield about 7-8 (depending on who's numbers you believe) billion in 2050. THis is because there is an assload of 12-16 year olds waiting in the wings and the older folks just don't die the way they used to.

[Doly]

A 0% population growth will yield about 7-8 (depending on who's numbers you believe) billion in 2050. THis is because there is an assload of 12-16 year olds waiting in the wings and the older folks just don't die the way they used to.

No, 0% population growth, by definition, would lead to leaving the population just as it is now. What would increase the population is a policy of 2 children per woman, that would eventually lead to 0% population growth, but in the meantime, current children would become adults.

[MyOtherID]

Go Forth and Multiply, my children!
Yeaaah, religion .... it just sucks, doesn't it? I saw this rant against it yesterday, loved it:

Years ago, not too long before my time, a great man wrote a great song. His name was John Lennon and that song was called “Imagine”. In it was a line that resonates with just as much truth today as it did during the times it was written in.
That line was, “Imagine no religion”.
John was eventually killed for his ideas, but many more have been killed because we didn’t listen.
Take a look around. If people woke up tomorrow and realized that more than half of what they hold sacred is nothing but superstitious bullshit and that no matter how you look at it we are all in this together, over half of the violence in this world would cease instantly. It is far past the time for all of us to admit the truth, which is that none of us have even the remotest idea what might happen when we die.
Everywhere you look there are religious crackpots telling us how to live our lives. I think these people need a good kicking. That goes for every pastor, priest, prophet, rabbi, and whatever else they call themselves in this world. These people are the enemies of peace and all else that is good in this world. They remind us of this every few years when they make sure that a war breaks out somewhere in the world because someone else doesn’t believe the same as they do.
I am sick and tired of people crying over cartoons, bothering me at my house to preach to me, trying to teach our kids religious beliefs in our schools, and generally just being really f**king annoying over a subject that is so fucking stupid. Here is an idea, why don’t you forget about what might happen when you die and just live your life? That way, whatever happens, you will know that you had fun with the small amount of time you were allotted here on Earth.
Life in itself is a reward for being born. If there is nothing after it, the whole thing would have still been well worth it. We need to act as though there is no higher purpose and our only reason of being here is to make the world a better place for us.
Until we can all realize that, this thing called religion will continue to destroy us.

[MyOtherID]

Religion is not the thing that will kill us, it will be assholes.

Perhaps, but religious assholes will do the most damage.