M_B_S wrote:Bullshit
Reactor fuel cost 1800$/kg * 66*10^6 = 1188 Billion $
The nuclear fuel crunch
Hard Facts
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Tanada wrote:I'll make you a deal, you stop blathering on about Peak Uranium and I will admit I am wrong when my local fission powerplant shuts down for lack of fuel.
SevenTen wrote:Tanada wrote:I'll make you a deal, you stop blathering on about Peak Uranium and I will admit I am wrong when my local fission powerplant shuts down for lack of fuel.
So why would you think that, given that the uranium supply is limited (as is oil's), that its production will not also eventually peak, especially with rising demand?
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Tanada wrote:SevenTen wrote:Tanada wrote:I'll make you a deal, you stop blathering on about Peak Uranium and I will admit I am wrong when my local fission powerplant shuts down for lack of fuel.
So why would you think that, given that the uranium supply is limited (as is oil's), that its production will not also eventually peak, especially with rising demand?
Given that I have never said Uranium lasts forever I can gladly say Uranium will someday peak, but the reallity is that day is so far in the distant future that nobody alive todays great grandchildren will be alive to see it, barring human imortality.
SevenTen wrote:Tanada wrote:SevenTen wrote:Tanada wrote:I'll make you a deal, you stop blathering on about Peak Uranium and I will admit I am wrong when my local fission powerplant shuts down for lack of fuel.
So why would you think that, given that the uranium supply is limited (as is oil's), that its production will not also eventually peak, especially with rising demand?
Given that I have never said Uranium lasts forever I can gladly say Uranium will someday peak, but the reallity is that day is so far in the distant future that nobody alive todays great grandchildren will be alive to see it, barring human imortality.
Really? So far in the distant future? That would be pretty simple to prove, so how about trotting out:
* current usage of uranium
* current supply and reserves
* an adequate growth rate, realizing all the slack that needs to picked up from the peaking of oil, the peaking of natural gas in a few years, and the peaking of coal somewhere in the next 20 years
Then calculate the doubling time using the growth rate above (the REAL way, not using the rule of 72). Then bring the results here and we'll have a look-see about it peaking so far in the distant future that only the immortals will see it.
And please source your data.
SevenTen wrote:Really? So far in the distant future? That would be pretty simple to prove, so how about trotting out:
* current usage of uranium
* current supply and reserves
* an adequate growth rate, realizing all the slack that needs to picked up from the peaking of oil, the peaking of natural gas in a few years, and the peaking of coal somewhere in the next 20 years
Then calculate the doubling time using the growth rate above (the REAL way, not using the rule of 72). Then bring the results here and we'll have a look-see about it peaking so far in the distant future that only the immortals will see it.
And please source your data.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Tanada wrote:SevenTen wrote:Really? So far in the distant future? That would be pretty simple to prove, so how about trotting out:
* current usage of uranium
* current supply and reserves
* an adequate growth rate, realizing all the slack that needs to picked up from the peaking of oil, the peaking of natural gas in a few years, and the peaking of coal somewhere in the next 20 years
Then calculate the doubling time using the growth rate above (the REAL way, not using the rule of 72). Then bring the results here and we'll have a look-see about it peaking so far in the distant future that only the immortals will see it.
And please source your data.
Current usage is laid out about two dozen times in this thread, as are the disputes over supplies and reserves. If you are too lazy to read through this whole thread then look them up on the internet.
As for taking up all the slack from Petroleum, Natural gas and Coal, wherever did you get the idea that it is my job to justify such arbitrary conditions for your amusement? Of course we should ignore the fact that electrified railroads and nuclear powered freighters coupled with nuclear powered electricity production pretty much wipes out the shipping of goods via fossil fuels. For human transport, why should having a few Billion private cars even be a goal? If you do want a few Billion private cars then you will have to go electric for those as well, which would be expensive but not impossible.
I choose not to play your game of 'adequate growth rate' in my opinion growth for the sake of growth is not a goal, it is a sign of cancer.
Fission won't give you Utopia any more than any system will, what it will do is provide energy for vital transport, electricity for residential, commercial and industrial use, and workarounds for the decline of fossil fuels without screwing up the environment beyond all recognition or increasing the chances of flipping the climactic tipping point and returning us to the hothouse end of the climate cycle where subtropical trees lived in northern Canada.
Up until the last 100 years the average human being was born and died within 20 miles of the same spot, the insane desire to travle everywhere you can is a fossil fueled aberation, not a normal way of life.
EnergyUnlimited wrote:I think, it is foolish to assume, that uranium will replace all FF after their depletion.
Uranium Contract To Debut on Nymex
Interest Is Surging As Nuclear Power Gets a Fresh Look
By MATT CHAMBERS
April 16, 2007
Looking to capitalize on surging interest in uranium investment, the New York Mercantile Exchange plans to launch a uranium futures contract, people familiar with the situation said Friday.
The futures contract would be designed to offer the operators of nuclear-power plants a vehicle to hedge against rising prices. It would also provide a forum to bet directly on gains and falls in the price of uranium, rather than speculating on the fortunes of companies that mine the metal.
Nuclear power is not the long-term answer to China's energy needs due to limited global uranium supplies and problems with nuclear waste disposal, state media on Monday quoted a top official as saying.
"Nuclear power cannot save us because the world's supply of uranium and other radioactive minerals needed to generate nuclear power are very limited," Chen Mingde, vice chairman of the National Development and Reform Commission, said in comments quoted by the China Daily newspaper.
MonteQuest wrote:Seems that China thinks there is going to be shortfall.
BBC wrote:Australia, which has 40% of the world's known uranium deposits, sells uranium only to members of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
The two countries had previously failed to agree a deal amid concerns China would use the uranium in its nuclear weapons programme.
Australia insists that potential uranium buyers must agree to a separate bilateral deal stipulating that they will not divert nuclear fuel into weapons programmes.
Australian Prime Minister John Howard and his Chinese counterpart, Premier Wen Jiabao - on a four-day visit to the country - looked on as their foreign ministers signed the pacts.
Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer stressed the importance of ensuring the uranium would never be used in military schemes.
BBC wrote:Under the terms of the deal, Australia will export 20,000 metric tons of uranium to China each year, beginning in 2010, the AFP news agency reports.
BBC wrote:China is desperate for energy to fuel its booming economy, the BBC's Daniel Griffiths reports from Beijing.
The old coal mines that the country relies on cannot keep up with demand and there is not enough oil to go around.
With power shortages and blackouts in big cities common, the government is looking for new sources of energy and nuclear is top of the list.
Beijing wants to build 40 to 50 nuclear reactors over the next 20 years and a steady supply of uranium is vital.
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
MonteQuest wrote:Seems that China thinks there is going to be shortfall.
Nuclear power not the solution for China: officialNuclear power is not the long-term answer to China's energy needs due to limited global uranium supplies and problems with nuclear waste disposal, state media on Monday quoted a top official as saying.
"Nuclear power cannot save us because the world's supply of uranium and other radioactive minerals needed to generate nuclear power are very limited," Chen Mingde, vice chairman of the National Development and Reform Commission, said in comments quoted by the China Daily newspaper.
Link
from ZEENEWS appears to be directly in contrast to the link you posted. It would be nice if everyone would publish honest numbers and transparent reports but it seems wew will have to keep whinowing information from the net that is of muddy clarity.Beijing, April 24: China will purchase four state-of-the-art nuclear reactors from the United States at an estimated cost of USD 8 billion.
The US has agreed to the transfer of AP1000 technology, which is believed safe, cost efficient and advanced compared with the 1970s-era reactors that dominate in China.
The deal with Westinghouse Electric Company, in which the extent of technology transfers includes design of equipment and nuclear facilities as well as technical support, will be completed in May, and the first of the four reactors will begin to generate power by 2013, the state media reported today.
Meanwhile, China is looking to fuel its nuclear power industry with largely self-developed technology by 2020 as it gradually reduces its reliance on imported technology, a senior academic of the nation's top science institute said.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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