[rockdoc123]

Pup 55 hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. You can look to blame all sorts of external issues such as the economy, poor government planning etc but the underlying problem is that there has been almost zero proper parenting. Morals and ethics are learned at home and generally by example. If a parent gives his child everything he/she asks for and demands nothing in return how does that teach him about the work ethic? If a parent doesn't show interest in what his child is learning each day at school will not the child think it isn't important? If you let your child take a plethora of courses at college/university that have no seeming goal in mind are you not contributing to the problem he will have in finding employment? Where is the direction and discipline that is needed?
I think it is as simple as looking back at the way many boomers were raised. We spent a lot of time with our parents...dinner every night, breakfast if the father hadn't already headed to work. Weekends were family time spent doing things together. School was seen as being important and was discussed regularly at home. If your grades fell there had better be good reason. Sports were encouraged, especially team sports and parents tended to support as much as possible. Money wasn't plentiful for most but then again we didn't need much. A few shirts, a couple of pairs of jeans a pair of corduroys for winter, a warm jacket, cheap sneakers, a good slide rule and you were pretty much supplied for the year. If you needed something else that was seen as being frivolous (say a new bike when yours was perfectly good) then there was always something to do to earn it (fences to be painted, gardens to be dug, a garage that needed a new roof, a driveway that needed patching etc).
Most importantly when you screwed up (and which of us never did?) you were made aware of it in no uncertain terms and instructed in what the right behavior was. The main punishment was embarrassment and I seem to remember it worked like a charm. And yes, it wasn't the same for everyone but for every kid that came from a broken home in the 50's there were ten or more who didn't. It was a bigger anamoly than it is today.
I think everything starts there. That being said the one problem that needs to be fixed is the very liberal approach to schooling. I believe there is a route cause there as well. Teaching needs to be revered as an occupation of choice. When I was teaching at university the normal backup route for students who couldn't cut the mustard in science was to fallback into education. They weren't there because they wanted to be but rather because the standards were lower. And it doesn't help that the profession is so poorly paid. Make teaching an occupation of choice and pay teachers an enviable salary and the education system will improve. Then start to toss out the students that cause problems (which are generally a minority) and you will start to build a well educated student population with a good set of ethics and goals.
And finally the notion of entitlement really gets my hackles up. You are not entitled to be rich and successful...you have to work for it. You aren't entitled to the best education...you have to work for that to. And once you have that education you aren't entitled to a really high paying job right out of the gate either...you have to work for that as well.
Just my opinion of course.

[ColossalContrarian]

I see a lot of focus on education with regards to employment and I think it’s BS but for a reason that isn’t valid… I myself am not educated past high school but have been able to do well with the skills I was blessed with which is in technology. My employers (up until lately) have always provided me with the best training for at least 3 weeks per year. Problem is that after 12 years I absolutely hate fixing computers and networks and technology all together… I don’t see any need to get a college education to learn how to setup networks and computers. Hands on training has been sufficient for me and I will not waste my money on a degree in computers or anything having to do with them!!! In fact my doomer fantasy is to have all the cell phones in the world stop working at the same time because I believe that will be the true zombie apocalypse that I need to break out my 870 for… People change when their cell phones don’t work and the text messages stop coming in… I’m serious… it makes people CraZy!!!

However….. I do find myself becoming more and more curious about geology and fortunately I live about three miles from the Colorado School of Mines which is pricey but probably the best school within 200 miles (if not more) for geology related education. I’m curious about a lot of the things the students at the School of Mines learn and fortunately the local community college (which is cheap) has transferable credits and similar courses. I get in trouble because I can’t complete things… I have criminal justice and law credits, computer science credits, and history credits, along with the gen ed but I can’t seem to put everything together and focus down on one thing!!! I do know what I don’t like and it’s computers. They pay the bills but I can’t honestly say I love what I do unless people say thank you or are appreciative. The computer aspect has no reward value for me just the people being appreciative has value to me.

I got on this rant because I wonder how many other 30 something’s are out there in the same conundrum I’m in? I get along ok but it doesn’t make me happy as much as it used to. I don’t know if I can say the same about Geology or Oil Engineering because after a few years I might not like that job either…

Maybe youngsters are too picky nowadays?

[Lore]

Pup 55 hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. You can look to blame all sorts of external issues such as the economy, poor government planning etc but the underlying problem is that there has been almost zero proper parenting. Morals and ethics are learned at home and generally by example. If a parent gives his child everything he/she asks for and demands nothing in return how does that teach him about the work ethic? If a parent doesn't show interest in what his child is learning each day at school will not the child think it isn't important? If you let your child take a plethora of courses at college/university that have no seeming goal in mind are you not contributing to the problem he will have in finding employment? Where is the direction and discipline that is needed?
I think it is as simple as looking back at the way many boomers were raised. We spent a lot of time with our parents...dinner every night, breakfast if the father hadn't already headed to work. Weekends were family time spent doing things together. School was seen as being important and was discussed regularly at home. If your grades fell there had better be good reason. Sports were encouraged, especially team sports and parents tended to support as much as possible. Money wasn't plentiful for most but then again we didn't need much. A few shirts, a couple of pairs of jeans a pair of corduroys for winter, a warm jacket, cheap sneakers, a good slide rule and you were pretty much supplied for the year. If you needed something else that was seen as being frivolous (say a new bike when yours was perfectly good) then there was always something to do to earn it (fences to be painted, gardens to be dug, a garage that needed a new roof, a driveway that needed patching etc).
Most importantly when you screwed up (and which of us never did?) you were made aware of it in no uncertain terms and instructed in what the right behavior was. The main punishment was embarrassment and I seem to remember it worked like a charm. And yes, it wasn't the same for everyone but for every kid that came from a broken home in the 50's there were ten or more who didn't. It was a bigger anamoly than it is today.
I think everything starts there. That being said the one problem that needs to be fixed is the very liberal approach to schooling. I believe there is a route cause there as well. Teaching needs to be revered as an occupation of choice. When I was teaching at university the normal backup route for students who couldn't cut the mustard in science was to fallback into education. They weren't there because they wanted to be but rather because the standards were lower. And it doesn't help that the profession is so poorly paid. Make teaching an occupation of choice and pay teachers an enviable salary and the education system will improve. Then start to toss out the students that cause problems (which are generally a minority) and you will start to build a well educated student population with a good set of ethics and goals.
And finally the notion of entitlement really gets my hackles up. You are not entitled to be rich and successful...you have to work for it. You aren't entitled to the best education...you have to work for that to. And once you have that education you aren't entitled to a really high paying job right out of the gate either...you have to work for that as well.
Just my opinion of course.

I essentially agree with all of this. Scapegoating teachers and the system is a lousy excuse for poor parenting. Our admiration of ignorance in this country never ceases to amaze me. We want our leaders, business people, celebrities as well as our teachers to be as dimwitted as a great many see themselves, or more, so they can feel better about their own lack of motivation to act or think. Parents should be at the forefront of education, working with and encouraging their children, demanding better schools, better teachers and yes even better pay to get the best. The same for every other profession. America should aspire to be better then it is, yet we have fallen into ignorance and complacency and feel the rest of the world should admire and praise us for it.

[Serial_Worrier]

Parents should be demanding the 3 Rs before anything. Also they should feed their kids correctly and make sure they get at least 2 hours a day of vigorous outdoor activity. A healthy body = healthy mind.

[SeaGypsy]

My British friends tell me 1 year to 2 year 'unpaid internships' have become the norm in places like London for new graduates in fields as basic as accounting and engineering.
So even in a place with free education and public medical, arguably the financial capital of the world, this generation are being done over.

At the same time I see a lot of what Pup55 mentions, in youth I have employed by and had as clients recently. Spot on rant there. I have been stunned how every kid under 25 (bar 1) I dealt with in 2011 thought nothing of showing up late every single day, whether for school or work. Wandering off for a smoke or a chat or pulling out the iphone every 5 minutes are taken as workplace rights. Discipline is out the window.

I never finished high school but currently can make $1k per day with a $100 labourer.
Can I find the right labour? Try $200? Still no....
That's right, I'm in Australia where anyone with a clean record, drivers license and drug check can get $140,000 pa in the mines, damn difficult to find highly motivated young people, even in the capital cities...

[cephalotus]

8. An incentive system that works in the wrong direction: A young lady in this age group that pops out a kid in my state gets $500 a month from the dad (paid for by grandpa, since dad does not have a job), plus some supplemental income from the state, plus subsidized food and medical care and a lot of other benefits. It does not seem to cramp their style, their hovering parents are happy to babysit their grandkids. Why not crank out 2 or 3 more?...

If you are long term unemployed in Germany as a mother with young child you receive 374€ + 219€ + 131€ = 724€ (currently ~940 US$) plus free health care + free accommodation (incl. heating, together max. 444€/month in Berlin for 2 persons).

Andf there is lots of discussion, if this is enough money to live properly and doesn't harm the childs options in the future.

Living on 500US$/months + x with a child doesn't look very attractive to ME...

[pup55]

It depends on where the baby is born. Here in Suburbia there are two on our street. The young mothers basically live at home, in the same room they did when they were "kids", which they still are, I suppose, and grandma takes care of the baby while they finish school or go to their part time job. I think both of the moms have Pell Grants which gets them into the local commuter college for free, since they are single moms.

The grandmas actually get some pleasure out of this....which is creepy in and of itself. I suppose in previous generations the moms and grandmoms were shunned socially but not anymore.

[MarkJ]

Many job seekers in general can't find, or keep jobs for numerous reasons. Many lack HS education, college education, technical education, professional licenses, certifications, knowledge, skills, soft skills, experience, work ethic, a driver's license, a clean driver's license, reliable transportation, interview skills etc.

Many can't pass drug testing, background checks, DMV checks, credit checks, aptitude tests, physical assessment tests, probationary periods, engineered labor/safety standards.

Something like 1 in 3 young adults have been in trouble with the law and 1 in 4 Americans have a criminal record which makes many of them unemployable. Some employers also perform internet searches, and internet searches of online newspaper archives. If something negative is discovered, many won't be hired.

Appearances and physical fitness are big issues as well. When my niece (about 100 pounds) took a physical fitness assessment test for a well paying warehouse position, the interviewer told her only 2 of 9 members in her group passed the test. Much of our younger population is overweight, obese and out of shape. More and more young people have appearance/presentation issues as well such as the way they dress, look (facial/neck tattoos/piercings), talk or carry themselves.


Much of our local population isn't seriously looking for work, or full-time work since they're receiving 70 plus weeks of unemployment extensions and/or they're receiving subsidized public/private housing (Section 8/DSS), $X,000 EIC/Tax refunds, food stamps, WIC, foodbank supplements, Medicaid, daycare, HEAP, Emergency HEAP, cellular phones/minutes, support from relatives etc.

Many workers work in the underground economy as well.

The lack of reliable transportation and cost of reliable transportation alone - purchase price, payments, interest, registration, inspection, insurance, gas, tolls, maintenance, repairs, tickets, parking etc has kept many young people out of our suburban job creation core.

They can't even get a job delivering pizzas without a reliable vehicle and a driver's license. Many of our growth industries require driving on the job, or using personal vehicles to drive to customers' homes.

That said, we have more and more job openings locally, but fewer well qualified job seekers.

[ColossalContrarian]

It depends on where the baby is born. Here in Suburbia there are two on our street. The young mothers basically live at home, in the same room they did when they were "kids", which they still are, I suppose, and grandma takes care of the baby while they finish school or go to their part time job. I think both of the moms have Pell Grants which gets them into the local commuter college for free, since they are single moms.

The grandmas actually get some pleasure out of this....which is creepy in and of itself. I suppose in previous generations the moms and grandmoms were shunned socially but not anymore.

I think* the majority of the population in the rest of the world already live like this. The whole family under one roof. The exception being that the father isn't under the same roof and possibly not supporting the mother. I don't see why you think grandma's wouldn't get pleasure out of taking care of their grandchildren? Most moms just like to do this type of thing if they can, it's hardwired into them and as far as the rest of society, grandma's could careless, they're thankful to have a grandchild. Only in developed parts of the world is separation between families so great and family support systems so small.

[Plantagenet]

I'm a little surprised that other posters are criticizing young people and their parents, but no one is blaming the evil corporations for the lack of good jobs for young people.

After all, that is what young people themselves believe-----the whole point of the Occupy Wall Street movement is that wall street and the corporations are to blame for all their problems.


IMHO, I think the kids are all right, but years of bad government economic policy have severely damaged the economy.

[pup55]

I dunno, there was a period of some number of centuries that having a child outside of a marriage was considered scandalous. Maybe the youngsters on the board do not remember this era.

It did bring some social order, to have the expectation that the dad do the responsible thing for the kid...

There are pros and cons of this way of thinking, of course.

[rockdoc123]

I'm a little surprised that other posters are criticizing young people and their parents, but no one is blaming the evil corporations for the lack of good jobs for young people.

After all, that is what young people themselves believe-----the whole point of the Occupy Wall Street movement is that wall street and the corporations are to blame for all their problems.

probably because all of us think that is a load of bollicks. Corporations can't exist without workers and their success is largely dependent on a qualified and motivated workforce. When the economy stagnates then there is less need for numbers of workers but the need for skilled and motivated workers remains. That is a fact of life and not something new. In the mid-eighties the oil industry went through a horrendous crash. The major integrated company I was working for at the time laid off half of their technical staff. Many of those staff eventually found work doing exactly what they had been doing but a lot changed careers or found alternative work until the market came back. During that period companies still needed very capable workers and it was largely through the implementation of that specialized workforce they were able to drop costs and become competitive once again.

There are still a lot of jobs out there, but mainly for skilled workers or at least people who are extremely eager to work and present themselves as motivated individuals. A close friend of mine has a son who spent most of his formative years training for an olympic event. He competed in the last three olympics and as a consequence ended up with a rather generalized secondary education. But he was still able to land a good paying job with a major O&G company in a field that he had absolutely no background or knowledge in simply because he was motivated, respectful and came across keen to learn in the interview. As I said previously jobs are not an entitlement....they need to be earned. If it takes getting your hair cut, shaving more than once a week, wearing something other than baggy pants and an untucked shirt, well then if you want a job you should be willing to do that. If it takes going to scores of interviews or going back to school or technical college then that is what you should be willing to do.

Sitting around whining about "the big corporation executives make all the money and don't give anything to us" speaks to my previous comment about entitlement. That corporate executive who makes several hundred thousand a year in salary plus stock options got to his position by almost certainly spending 7 - 10 years at a university (a baccalaureate and masters degree is common) and decades of long hours honing his knowledge of the business. He didn't feel entitled...he went out and did what it took gain what he saw as success.

[Pretorian]

I have two words for this-- colleges and consoles.

[Pops]

Wow look how lazy, immoral and stupid those kids have become lately:



Kids today are worthless compare to the good old days of 2007 when they had a work ethic and said "Yes Ma'am" and knew the value of a dollar!

<snort> You guys are showing your age.

[AgentR11]

uphill!
both ways!
IN THE SNOW!!!

**oh wait, no snow. hmmm

uphill!
both ways!
in the weeds with cane rattlesnakes chasin us!

[vision-master]

But he was still able to land a good paying job with a major O&G company in a field that he had absolutely no background or knowledge in simply because he was motivated, respectful and came across keen to learn in the interview. As I said previously jobs are not an entitlement....they need to be earned. If it takes getting your hair cut, shaving more than once a week, wearing something other than baggy pants and an untucked shirt, well then if you want a job you should be willing to do that. If it takes going to scores of interviews or going back to school or technical college then that is what you should be willing to do.

Father knows best....

[SeaGypsy]

I'm a little surprised that other posters are criticizing young people and their parents, but no one is blaming the evil corporations for the lack of good jobs for young people.

After all, that is what young people themselves believe-----the whole point of the Occupy Wall Street movement is that wall street and the corporations are to blame for all their problems.


IMHO, I think the kids are all right, but years of bad government economic policy have severely damaged the economy.

Personally, I find the Occupy position naive in the extreme, if well meaning. These people need to get out of their suburbs and go have a look at how people live in the 70% of the world who are struggling to earn $3 a day. The gall of these people in aligning these massive percentages with their's, generally in the top 10% globally, even if unemployed on benefits.

These calling themselves the 99% are really the 8% between the top 10% and the top 2%; not such a punchy banner.

Those calling for a hands off Government approach, had they had their way, would much more rapidly be facing wage equity with China; the inevitable conclusion of globalization.

[vision-master]

Personally, I find the Occupy position naive in the extreme, if well meaning. These people need to get out of their suburbs and go have a look at how people live in the 70% of the world who are struggling to earn $3 a day.

Those ppl are living in climates where a cardbord shack, pair of shorts and some sandals an yer good to go. SG, have you ever lived in a cold arse climate in your life?

[Cog]

You can pick up a coat, gloves, and hat for under $5 at Goodwill or the Salvation Army.