[Plantagenet]

I wonder if he she understands the true face of terror a bit better now.

Its not her fault the terror attack happened at her concert.

It does seem a little bizarre that Ariana tweeted almost exactly the same kind of things after a huge Islamic terror attack at her concert in Manchester as she tweeted several months ago when Trump was elected President, but I don't think its a valid reason to criticize her.

At least she took the time to issue a tweet expressing her sadness at the terror attack.

Sure she seems to be a vacuous air head, but at least she's a cute vacuous airhead.

[peripato]

We've made a rod for our own backs letting this type into our countries, the best thing to do is stop further uncontrolled immigration, stop bombing them, and seek to help the refugees resettle either in their own homelands, or another muslim country - it would be the rational and humane option, and a hell of a lot cheaper. However, the chances of wisdom pervading the thinking of current western elites about this, or any other existential threat in an adult way are about as likely as a week with two Tuesdays in it.

[peripato]

@Cog--that pic is offensive and way out of line.

It is an accurate reflection of a instagram she made after the presidential election. What should be offensive to you is the slaughter of teen and pre-teen girls who simply wanted to see a concert. I use words, they use bombs.

Agreed, this "shoot the messenger" type of response is typical of apologists for muslim extremism, and has grown weary. There will be a backlash.

[ritter]

It is an accurate reflection of a instagram she made after the presidential election. What should be offensive to you is the slaughter of teen and pre-teen girls who simply wanted to see a concert. I use words, they use bombs.

And still utterly tasteless to use in the context of the event. But you already knew that.

[Cog]

The mindset of the West, which has been to apologize for the actions of muslims, has to change if we our culture is to survive this onslaught. Memorials and tears after a massacre like this are no solution to the muslim crisis. Yes ,its their crisis and one of their own making. As Trump correctly pointed out in Saudi Arabia when he said, "Drive. Them. Out. DRIVE THEM OUT of your places of worship. DRIVE THEM OUT of your communities. DRIVE THEM OUT of your holy land, and DRIVE THEM OUT OF THIS EARTH."

Only then can the West coexist with the religion of Islam. In the mean time, the West must by all means necessary protect their lives and culture. The innocent will pay the price along with the guilty. In war it is always that way.

[Plantagenet]

...the West must by all means necessary protect their lives and culture. The innocent will pay the price along with the guilty. In war it is always that way.

The west isn't unified on this question.

Liberal Ds in the US and people on the left in the EU actually support mass immigration by Muslims into western countries. I don't understand why----the Muslim religion is antithetical to most liberal beliefs and Islamic mass murder terror attacks are becoming more and more frequent, but there it is. The Ds and the left want more Muslims to migrate into the US and Europe, even though this means more Islamic terrorism and more mass murder attacks like the Manchester attack.

Cheers!

[Outcast_Searcher]

Doesn't it make more sense to expel known terrorists before they murder people rather then waiting for them to carry out mass murder terror attacks on innocent people and going after them then?

This is getting to be a pattern---some Islamist Muslim carries out a mass murder attack and the security services say, oh yeah, we had that guy on our watch list already. Its happened often enough that perhaps the terrorists on the watch list should be rounded up now BEFORE they blow up innocent people or run down innocent people or knife innocent people or shoot innocent people---the criteria for putting people on the watch list seem to be pretty reliable at identifying terrorists.
Cheers!

Do you have credible information (i.e. citations) that show that all people on the terrorist watch are actually terrorists?

Or are many of them, as I strongly suspect, only potential threats, since they have been seen with other potential threats, perhaps while worshipping at a Mosque, or dining? (How would YOU like to be "rounded up" for being a criminal because you, for example, were seen on some video standing in line someplace behind a criminal, and perhaps even innocently exchanging a pleasantry or two while waiting?)

If 100% of the people on the terror watch list were truly terrorists and had been proven to be terrorists, then you'd have a point. OTOH, I'm pretty sure after a trial convicting someone of terrorist acts, they tend to be put in jail -- so clearly that's not the case.

Correlation isn't causation, even though it might be tempting to think so.

...

Again, some kind of middle ground is clearly needed. I am very much against just taking in tens of thousands of Muslims without some serious vetting. But that's a LOT different than rounding up everyone some government (perhaps through incompetence) has on some list of POTENTIAL threats.

[ritter]

But that's a LOT different than rounding up everyone some government (perhaps through incompetence) has on some list of POTENTIAL threats.

Yes. I seem to recall some European country trying that once and it resulted in a world war...

[Cog]

But that's a LOT different than rounding up everyone some government (perhaps through incompetence) has on some list of POTENTIAL threats.

Yes. I seem to recall some European country trying that once and it resulted in a world war...

WW2 wasn't fought over the imprisonment and killing of Jews, Gypsies, the mentally defective, homosexuals, etc. None of the other European countries or even the USA cared one whit about that until after the war was over.

They did very much object to being invaded by Germany.

[onlooker]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/manchester-at ... 28896.html
Manchester bomber's father Ramadan​ detained in Tripoli, Libya
Follows Tripoli arrest of bomber's younger brother Hashem
Fifth suspect arrested in Wigan in connection with attack
Almost 1,000 British soldiers being deployed on streets today
Military guard Buckingham Palace, Downing St, Westminster
Soldiers arrive as Theresa May launches Operation Temperer
Threat level raised to critical, suggesting attack 'imminent'
Police confirm officers investigating 'network' behind bomber
Attacker's father breaks silence to claim son is innocent
Man with knife arrested at Buckingham Palace as UK on alert
The bomber: University dropout who turned to terror
The victims: Girl, eight, among 22 people killed as scores hurt
Everything we know about attack targeting Ariana Grande gig

[evilgenius]

You might gain some traction by figuring out what stopped the anarchists who were such a threat at one point in world history. One of them even managed to start WWI. They were once everywhere. The authorities once sought them out, to no avail. I think, in the end, the very thing they wrought ended them. But people's propensity to seek such luminaries in their lives may have only switched to far brighter candles than it did for them to bring the stuff of such arguments inside themselves, thinking for themselves and figuring out the world in a manner where they could place bias on the back burner.

I get very riled by the Sharia arguments. To me, secular law can't have such a rival. It is an enemy of the order that society requires to function in a manner that can be characterized as civil. Religious law should be able to inform the law upon which society functions (by means of the norms the people operate from), but, with its endless permutations onto death, it should not have any direct rule over secular law.

Guess what, today's conspiracy theorists and Illuminati wranglers are just as dangerous to the secular order as Islamic extremism. Christian home schoolers who don't want to entertain the idea that people have fundamental rights are no less keen to erase what makes us great. Nobody wants to round all of those people up. And I don't want to either. The issue is the effectiveness of the secular norm in dealing with aberrant ideology, whether people understand how their government functions and participate within it and how deeply reason is embedded in the national psyche. What do Western children really learn in school?

[Cog]

The UK doesn't have to bomb and kill every Muslim in sight. They can handle it the way Mossad did after Israeli athletes were killed at the 1972 Olympic games. MI6 and the SAS can track down every person who had any tangential relationship with the Manchester bombing suspect and simply execute them on the spot. His family, his friends, his Imam, should all be put on that target list. It sends the right message.

[Plantagenet]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/manchester-attack-latest-detectives-hunt-152428896.html
Manchester bomber's father Ramadan​ detained in Tripoli, Libya
Follows Tripoli arrest of bomber's younger brother Hashem
Fifth suspect arrested in Wigan in connection with attack
Almost 1,000 British soldiers being deployed on streets today
Military guard Buckingham Palace, Downing St, Westminster
Soldiers arrive as Theresa May launches Operation Temperer
Threat level raised to critical, suggesting attack 'imminent'
Police confirm officers investigating 'network' behind bomber
Attacker's father breaks silence to claim son is innocent
Man with knife arrested at Buckingham Palace as UK on alert
The bomber: University dropout who turned to terror
The victims: Girl, eight, among 22 people killed as scores hurt
Everything we know about attack targeting Ariana Grande gig

There's a few more things we know that should be in that list.

For instance, the attack was clearly Islamic Terrorism.

I find it bizarre when the MSM discusses these terror attacks without even noting that it was an Islamic terror attack. We can't control what the MSM does, but lets be honest here---this was a "martyr" attack by an Muslim suicide bomber.

ISIS has claimed responsibility and is cheering the attack on-line.

The reason for the attack, according to ISIS, is to kill the "Followers of the Cross."

AND FINALLY, some are speculating that ISIS chose to attack this concert because Ms. Ariana performs in skimpy costumes, and Islamists find this immoral and offensive because they believe that women should be covered up.


Did Islamists target Ariana's show in Manchester because they are offended by her skimpy costumes?

[Outcast_Searcher]

The UK doesn't have to bomb and kill every Muslim in sight. They can handle it the way Mossad did after Israeli athletes were killed at the 1972 Olympic games. MI6 and the SAS can track down every person who had any tangential relationship with the Manchester bombing suspect and simply execute them on the spot. His family, his friends, his Imam, should all be put on that target list. It sends the right message.

So if a family member, say, gets caught driving drunk, they should take away YOUR driver's license? Killing all of someone's family and friends (without any due process) goes WAY beyond the reasonable or sane -- especially in a supposedly democratic country.

If you believe in that kind of thinking, why don't you move to someplace like say Russia or Venezuela, and take up a career as a government informant? Oh, and be very sure to most carefully watch your back, while you're at it.

[asg70]

Cog does have a reasonable point to make which is that terrorism usually arises within the center of layers of increasing sympathy to the underlying cause. I say "usually" because there are some cases of those who are radicalized in isolation via the internet. But to claim that the surrounding community plays no role in fostering radicalization is naive.

[Cog]

The UK doesn't have to bomb and kill every Muslim in sight. They can handle it the way Mossad did after Israeli athletes were killed at the 1972 Olympic games. MI6 and the SAS can track down every person who had any tangential relationship with the Manchester bombing suspect and simply execute them on the spot. His family, his friends, his Imam, should all be put on that target list. It sends the right message.

So if a family member, say, gets caught driving drunk, they should take away YOUR driver's license? Killing all of someone's family and friends (without any due process) goes WAY beyond the reasonable or sane -- especially in a supposedly democratic country.

If you believe in that kind of thinking, why don't you move to someplace like say Russia or Venezuela, and take up a career as a government informant? Oh, and be very sure to most carefully watch your back, while you're at it.

What due process was afforded those dead children in Manchester?

[Plantagenet]

Cog does have a reasonable point to make which is that terrorism usually arises within the center of layers of increasing sympathy to the underlying cause. I say "usually" because there are some cases of those who are radicalized in isolation via the internet. But to claim that the surrounding community plays no role in fostering radicalization is naive.

The underlying cause isn't exactly secret, either.

There are multiple radical imams heading up Islamist mosques in various parts of England. These imams promulgate traditional Islamist teachings that encourage violent extremism.

And, of course, there are similar Islamist teachings on the internet.

And, young Muslims can become radicalized when they encounter people affiliated with ISIS or Al Qaida or similar jihadi groups overseas.

And many terrorists come from families with radical Islamist views.

In the case of the Manchester bomber, he seems to have all these Islamist influences in his background. You really have to wonder why he wasn't under surveillance already.

manchester-bomber-s-father-says-son-made-regular-visits-to-libya-family-ties-to-ISIS-al qaida

Cheers!

[dolanbaker]

Some people just don't think before speaking!

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/24/ex-ukip-m ... s-6658334/
A former Ukip politician has demanded the death penalty be introduced – for suicide bombers.

Janice Atkinson, who stood for Ukip in Folkstone and Hythe before becoming an independent politician, made the comments following the Manchester terror attack which claimed 22 lives on Monday night.

She is currently an independent elected MEP for the South East of England.

Calling for the death penalty, Atkinson said: ‘Much needs to be done to eradicate this evil.

‘But there is one simple step which we can take now: we must bring back the death penalty.

[Plantagenet]

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/24/ex-ukip-m ... s-6658334/
A former Ukip politician has demanded the death penalty be introduced – for suicide bombers.

Janice Atkinson, who stood for Ukip in Folkstone and Hythe before becoming an independent politician, made the comments following the Manchester terror attack which claimed 22 lives on Monday night.

She is currently an independent elected MEP for the South East of England.

Calling for the death penalty, Atkinson said: ‘Much needs to be done to eradicate this evil.

‘But there is one simple step which we can take now: we must bring back the death penalty.

Somewhere out there on the run is the guy who built the suicide vest for the Manchester terrorist.

I think it makes a lot of sense for you Brits to bring back the death penalty so you can execute the bomb-maker. He's just as guilty as the guy who wore the suicide vest.

Cheers!

[evilgenius]

Cog does have a reasonable point to make which is that terrorism usually arises within the center of layers of increasing sympathy to the underlying cause. I say "usually" because there are some cases of those who are radicalized in isolation via the internet. But to claim that the surrounding community plays no role in fostering radicalization is naive.

And from what I've heard about the perpetrator he was either retarded or borderline retarded. That almost certainly means he didn't make his own explosives or whatever vest type thing he may have worn. I think the hatred was, however, his own. The point is that anyone who does something like this as part of a larger group of people all engaged in the activity must expose themselves to the view of those in the community who aren't part of that group. Somebody had to see or hear something. Should it be a crime to reasonably suspect something like this is afoot and not report it?

Does the UK have an anonymous system for someone in a community who fears retribution from other members within that community if they do report something to report what they see or hear? What about education or marketing paid for by the government to convince people of their allegiance to the greater secular community as a whole? I know that the UK has a problem with ghettoization of Muslims in certain parts of the country. They live and work separate lives from the greater population in many cases. What are they doing to integrate them more thoroughly? Why are they having such a problem with people who were born there as opposed to those who moved there from somewhere else? Are they simply using expectation alone to mainstream these people? Expectation is a powerful tool for reinforcing class distinctions, which are prevalent within the UK, but it may not be such a good thing all by itself when attempting to mainstream people with the kinds of questions running around in these people's heads.