dohboi wrote:"knowing their origin"
But will they??
Plantagenet wrote:
The stark reality of baked-in catastrophes on earth is that large areas on earth are going to be inundated by rising sea level or severely impacted by droughts and heat waves. Mars represents an opportunity to start modern civilization over and do things right this time.
ralfy wrote:C8 wrote:everybody writing and reading this thread is going to die anyway- including me
sometimes I think people use social catastrophe as a way to divert themselves from the "stark reality" of their own coming personal catastrophe- nonexistence
Doesn't the opposite also apply, i.e., consumer spending and space age fantasies for the same reason?
There might be other points to consider, such as the level of suffering (the effects of extreme weather conditions, lack of medicine, lack of food, and so forth) that may take place as the effects of multiple crises set in, what will happen to loved ones such as children and grandchildren, etc.
dohboi wrote:How about we start by slowing down the UN-terraforming/denaturing of this, the only 'Terra' we really have.
We've been basing our decisions on ScFi fantasies for to long.
C8 wrote:
Yes, these are all great ways to deal with the subject of "things ending" while avoiding thinking about ourselves ending. In reality, everyone will suffer, everyone will die- there is no avoiding this no matter what path we choose individually or socially. There is no "gain" by any choices- only the illusion of gain. We simply re-arrange suffering.
dohboi wrote:"Mechanisms please. What triggers change in this direction? For 40 years I have been hearing statements of what we should be doing but they sound hollow and superficial after all this time.
What actually triggers a change in relationship to our biosphere?"
Look, anything I come up with, you will say it seems unlikely to impossible, and I'd probably agree with you.
But then again, just a few months ago most, including myself, would have said that it is unlikely to impossible for a self proclaimed socialist to have a fighting chance to make it to the White House...
We are facing a very hot summer in the US, and (unfortunately, for what it says about US citizens to maintain coherent though beyond their immediate experience, but fortunate perhaps for the timing) warm/hot weather has in the past corresponded to increased concern about GW.
If Bernie can stay in the race that long and keep bringing up the issue, it's going to suddenly resonate with a lot more people in a lot more basic way. So...who knows.
Likely? No?
Impossible?
Perhaps, but strange days are upon us, one way or the other.
Newfie wrote:Ibon,
Isn't the point of the thread "baked in consequences" that those "draconian of consequences" are inevitable?
Let me ask it a different way, what do you feel are the minimum consequences we will see given where we stand today?
So this doesn't come across as a set up I'll go first. From my perspective the "baked in consequence" is an approximate 90% reduction in population over the 200ish years due to the combined stress load of 7.5 billion people on the environment. That sounds pretty "draconian" to me.
It's so hard to converse about these things because so many assumptions ar built in. I'm just trying to be clear.
Newfie wrote:Ibon,
Isn't the point of the thread "baked in consequences" that those "draconian of consequences" are inevitable?
Let me ask it a different way, what do you feel are the minimum consequences we will see given where we stand today?
So this doesn't come across as a set up I'll go first. From my perspective the "baked in consequence" is an approximate 90% reduction in population over the 200ish years due to the combined stress load of 7.5 billion people on the environment. That sounds pretty "draconian" to me.
It's so hard to converse about these things because so many assumptions ar built in. I'm just trying to be clear.
Newfie wrote:Well it's difficult to discuss if we can't agree on what is baked in. For me it's a 1 billion population. That will kill our culture.
Unless we can agree to time scale and scope, even in some general way, it is very hard to discuss.
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