If I can... Where can I buy a new BEV and replacement battery pack for less than what MDI is stating will be the cost of the air car?
Wrong again. The Aveo5 and the Aveo are different vehicles.
Shh.....Frank wrote:I don't understand your cost analysis. If a 6-volt golf cart battery (Trojan T-125) is used with your assumptions I calculate battery costs of $.025/mile. With electricity at $.20/kwh and 100 whr/mile that's $.02/mile electricity cost or $.045/mile total.
If an air car is five times less efficient wouldn't it use $.10/mile electricity which is twice as expensive as the BEV in this example?
T-125s peak in terms of capacity at 775 cycles@60% DOD according to this. Any more or less and you get less out of the battery. In that respect my estimate was about 30-40% above. They also won't given the 20hr rate unless you actually plan to draw them down over the course of 20 hours. I think 175ah over an hour or two is reasonable. There are plenty of calculators for Peukert's if you wanna figure out the exact figure over whatever your route is.Frank wrote:- 80% DOD gives ~1100 watt-hr available, call it good for 10 miles range at 100 wh/mi
- 800 cycles would therefore provide 8000 miles range
It's actually a horrible assumption for a city car IMO. One of these, either an EV or CA (compressed air) version would only weigh around 5000N with a driver and average about 20mph. With LRR tires (Crr=.007) it would only use around 20Wh/mile at a steady cruise, or assuming the energy requirements double because of stop and go driving, only about 40Wh/mile.Frank wrote:Most vehicles would use 2-3 times the energy but the 100 whr/mi is probably a good assumption for the smaller prototypes.
I'd say it's a necessity. It'll have a higher operating cost per mile if charged at home at ~$.06/mile. The only way for it to drop below would be to cut electricity costs in half, which seems reasonable since MDI proposes CA filling stations, which as business', have access to TOD metering for their filling equipment, and compressing air in large volumes is cheap in terms of energy storage compared to doing the same for electricity. So... It's major advantages must come from being able to use many different kinds of fuel efficiently and having cheap off-peak energy storage.Frank wrote:I think the most interesting thing that may develop from this is the so-called hybrid version.
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
The same place you can buy an EV version of that platform.JRP3 wrote:Where can I buy an Air car at any price?
It does if you expect your statements to be interpreted correctly.JRP3 wrote:Obviously the Aveo I was referring to the whole time was the Aveo5, and the omission of the "5" does nothing to change my numbers.yesplease wrote:Wrong again. The Aveo5 and the Aveo are different vehicles.
What attempt at deflection? I'm just responding to your posts in the same way you've been responding to my posts. If you want to show a small glider can be built quite cheaply then link to the pertinent figures/material that shows this, and, hopefully, use the right terms/names.JRP3 wrote:Nice attempt at deflecting from the real issue, which is, to be clear, that a small glider can be built quite cheaply.
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
The ZPM compressed air vehicle is built with the high performance Compressed Air Engine (CAE) technology developed by Formula One race car engineer Guy Negre.
The technology has been tested, prototypes have been running. and the Air Car is now entering its final development stage.
ZPM will begin taking reservations in mid-2009 for US deliveries of our compressed air vehicle in 2010.
Range: 848 miles (8 gal tank)
Power source: Electronically injected compressed air
Fuel Characteristics:
Compressed Air: 3200 ft3 @ 4500 psi
Charger: On board 5.5 kwh 110/220 v compressor generating 812 ft3 /hr.
Range: 848 miles (8 gal tank)
JRP3 wrote:Range: 848 miles (8 gal tank)
I seriously doubt that.
MDI Enterprises wrote:Following serious commercial misconducts from Mr. Miguel Celades, MDI had to officially stop all relationships with him since 3rd February 2008.
Any reference by Mr Miguel CELADES and/or his companies « Motor de Aire Comprimido S.L. »and “Air Cars Factories SL” and/or his websites “motordeaire . com” and “www.theaircar.com” , whether directly or indirectly to construction or sales of compressed air engines and/or vehicles using this technology in relation with MDI (Motor Development International constitutes serious charges of unfair competition and fraud.
Mr Miguel CELADES, former MDI agent in Spain and Spanish-speaking countries, is attempting to use the goodwill and success of MDI in order to mislead potential investors for his own benefit.
tsakach wrote:
Range: 848 miles (8 gal tank)
Power source: Electronically injected compressed air
Fuel Characteristics:
Compressed Air: 3200 ft3 @ 4500 psi
Charger: On board 5.5 kwh 110/220 v compressor generating 812 ft3 /hr.
lper100km wrote:There is something seriously wrong with those numbers.
8 US Galls is equivalent to 1 cu.ft. To travel the claimed 845 miles, it would be necessary to recharge the tank 3,200 times.
It says that the onboard charger can refill at a rate of 812 cu.ft per hour. Presumably it means to the pressure of 4 500psi. This would charge the tank in 4.5 secs. Without taking into account any of the inefficiencies, the straight power conversion requires that the charger is rated at 200kWh, yet the blurb claims it is only 5.5kWh. With inefficiencies brought in, the charging motor should have about an 800 – 1 000kWh rating, (nominal 750hp). So what gives?
A 5.5kWh charger might develop 5 cu.ft at 4 500 psi over an hour in practical terms, giving a recharge rate of around 12 mins.
Presumably the vehicle has to stop to recharge, since the onboard charger is indicated as being electrically powered (110 v no less). 3 200 stops of 12 mins each to go 845 miles? That's 640 hours minimum round the clock! There’s something sadly amiss with this whole thing. It’s completely nonsensical.
For Electricity Production Generator (EPG) the engine is operated by continuous external combustion (in a similar manner to the dual-energy CATs engines) using the least expensive fossil or bio-fuel, LPG or gas. The unit continuously compresses the air that runs the engine.
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