[Plantagenet]

?....every day dozens of petty tricycle driver flip flop wearers with a reputation for smoking ice are murdered in cold blood, along with other random 'criminals'. It's a phucked up travesty of justice

Duterte's anti-drug policies raise questions in the west, but they don't seem to offend the Chinese much

Of course, The communists in China largely eradicated drug use from China ca. 60 years ago just as Duterte is trying to do in the Phillipines now

----------------

Obama has to be smarter about this ------- Insulting Duterte is counterproductive and only drives him into the arms of China

[SeaGypsy]

That is just bs propoganda. There are heaps of drugs in China, it is easy to score all kinds of amphetamines, cannabis, heroin. Upward social mobility is the primary reason China does not have the obvious drug issues of countries like the Philippines. Drugs are much more a symptom than a cause of social ills.

[Sixstrings]

Duterte's anti-drug policies raise questions in the west, but they don't seem to offend the Chinese much

Of course, The communists in China largely eradicated drug use from China ca. 60 years ago just as Duterte is trying to do in the Phillipines now

It's against international law Plant, per the ICC treaty that the Philippines is party to. And the narcotrade comes from China, anyway (citation: way upthread I posted an article by a Filipino American).

The Philippines is not China. It used to be a US territory. It's a catholic country, they speak english, if not spanish names then they have english names (or tagalog, of course).

There's a lot of family ties back and forth, and 3 million Filipino Americans in the US.

There's a lot of Europeans, Americans, Canadians and Aussies that live there too, and have family ties.

The Philippines is a treaty ally, and the Philippines has responsibilities to us, just as we do to them.

Obama has to be smarter about this ------- Insulting Duterte is counterproductive and only drives him into the arms of China

And the president of our treaty ally Philippines, will have to get smarter about listening to the same international law that all our other treaty allies adhere to.

These are our values in this alliance, and that's just how it is. They are the values shared by Australia, Japan, South Korea, Australia, and us, Europe, Canada and the UK.

And honestly -- the Philippines is a catholic country, they believe in these values too, they've just been led down a wrong path by this Duterte.

Also -- Duterte will have to get smarter about being a good team player, and not trashing the USA anymore. And he should stop picking on Australia. It's a team -- he needs to get in line with the international community and with the pacific allies, including Japan and Australia.

[Sixstrings]

In terms of political dynasty, being the son of a Governor is a very short line in the Philippines, where many dynasties go back hundreds of years. The Moro, southern Mindanao Muslims, ran their own show for most of the Spanish period, so the internal power structures are not known to the extent of the Christian Visayas & Luzon. As to Duterte regaining credibility, since his inauguration, he has continually put his foot in his mouth & had apoligists come forth & backtrack for him. He has none.

Exactly. Even China is not what China used to be and how they used to do things -- but, they don't have any human rights standards, for their allies.

Australia says that the Philippines needs to stick with the USA:

Julie Bishop calls on Philippines' Rodrigo Duterte to maintain US alliance

Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has urged Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte to maintain the country's links to the United States and end his government's extrajudicial killings after he compared himself to Hitler and threatened to kill "millions".
http://www.afr.com/news/julie-bishop-calls-on-philippines-rodrigo-duterte-to-maintain-us-alliance-20161003-grtxzt

Seriously, folks -- if Duterte were just a Hugo Chavez type but not so horrible otherwise, then there may be some room for debate.

Given how he is though, I don't see any debate about it. He's just awful.

[onlooker]

If Duterte is a figurehead and cannot be trusted even by his own allies. Who is running the Philippines.?

[Sixstrings]

If Duterte is a figurehead and cannot be trusted even by his own allies. Who is running the Philippines.?

My sense is that he was an "outsider" that got elected. And not part of the "establishment."

It would be the same way if we ever elected a total outsider -- they would actually be like a figurehead, heavily relying on cabinet secretaries and congress etc.

It's just my impression, but it seems like from these articles I read, that NOT EVEN FILIPINOS ever know what he's gonna do or say next, or even how to interpret what he says.

It doesn't seem like he's part of any political ideology or party, with a lot of other Dutertes in the congress, etc.

I'm sure SG could provide some better info on this, like the natioanlist movement in the Philippines, and are they REALLY anti US and such, or is this all getting started by Duterte, etc.

From all the US coverage -- it's like, the Obama admin was just surprised. Otherwise, the US gov and US military gets along great with Filipino officials. And so, they haven't been talking to Duterte, but rather just his various cabinet secretaries and Philippine military counterparts.

[Sixstrings]

Anyhow, I'm tired of this topic.

Obama administration should get tough about the Duterte thing, that's all I know.

If they don't get tough, then it's going to turn into a codependent type thing like what we have with Russia -- and if the US has to go round and round with Duterte, like that, then that's just ridiculous.

The world does not revolve, around the Philippines.

And they're supposed to be an ally, and actually helping the USA, not making all of these problems. And the human rights issues too, and them picking on Australia, it's just ridiculous.

[Plantagenet]

- Duterte will have to get smarter about being a good team player, and not trashing the USA anymore. And he should stop picking on Australia. It's a team -- he needs to get in line with the international community and with the pacific allies, including Japan and Australia.

Obama and "the team" sold the Phillipines out

Bloomberg News---a pro business pro Obama site ---- puts the blame squarely on Obama for this mess

Remember that when China started seizing Philippine Islands a few years ago Obama told the Philippinos to take their case to the ICC in The Hague

Well the ruling was issued in July that China was illegally seizing Philipino territory. And when the Phillipinos came to Obama for help he told them the US would do nothing. Obama told the Phillipinos "you'll have to work this out with the Chinese yourself"

The team wasn't there for the Phillipines

So Duterte is doing what Obama told him to do-----he's gone to Beijing to try to get the best deal he can for the Phillipines from the Chinese

Of course this blows up Obama's much ballyhooed "pivot to Asia" but that's Obama's own fault----he was a wimp and abandoned the Phillipines when they needed help to stop China taking Philipino territory

Cheers!

[SeaGypsy]

What blather. In fact the US has been upping military aid, NGO support & strongly affirmed the UN recognition of Philippines sovereignty over bs Chinese claims which Duterte has just ignored & sold out. Bloomberg provide the most up to date tickers on Asian markets, they don't give a sh#t about human rights. Duterte is a braggart murderer deserving the same treatment his moron cronies have dished out to thousands.

[SeaGypsy]

If Duterte is a figurehead and cannot be trusted even by his own allies. Who is running the Philippines.?

My sense is that he was an "outsider" that got elected. And not part of the "establishment."

It would be the same way if we ever elected a total outsider -- they would actually be like a figurehead, heavily relying on cabinet secretaries and congress etc.

It's just my impression, but it seems like from these articles I read, that NOT EVEN FILIPINOS ever know what he's gonna do or say next, or even how to interpret what he says.

It doesn't seem like he's part of any political ideology or party, with a lot of other Dutertes in the congress, etc.

I'm sure SG could provide some better info on this, like the natioanlist movement in the Philippines, and are they REALLY anti US and such, or is this all getting started by Duterte, etc.

From all the US coverage -- it's like, the Obama admin was just surprised. Otherwise, the US gov and US military gets along great with Filipino officials. And so, they haven't been talking to Duterte, but rather just his various cabinet secretaries and Philippine military counterparts.

There is a deep schism in the Philippines. 8 years ago I applied for Australian residency for my wife, told our Department of Foreign Affairs I believe there will be a violent revolution soon in the Philippines, based on personal experiences there. The Communist underground represented by the NPA & CPP is a hell of a lot bigger & stronger than publicly available statistics wpuld lead us to believe. NPA are virtually everywhere, running protection rackets, doing robberies & drug business. Duterte is the closet CPP/ NPA candidate, he is the revolution. The fact that what has held back the communists, namely international remittances & investment, is still severely at risk, has not prevented the election of this wanna be communist stooge, indicates desperation has overtaken rationality. The Philippines cannot anywhere near feed itself. The rural provinces are nearly self sufficient, but the big cities would starve to death very quickly without imports.

I just got off the phone to a friend there. He has been going there from Australia for 10 years, says the mood has never been less friendly, everyone not born there is trying to get out. My foresight got my wife & kids out years ago, all are Aussies now. I dont think we will ever go back.

[Sixstrings]

U.S. Warship Challenges China’s Claims In South China Sea: Officials
The guided-missile destroyer USS Decatur challenged “excessive maritime claims” near the Paracel Islands

(CNN)A US Navy guided-missile destroyer, the USS Decatur, sailed through the South China Sea on Friday in a freedom of navigation operation intended to send a blunt message to China.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said the point was to let China know that it cannot "unlawfully restrict the navigation rights, freedoms and lawful uses of the sea that the United States and all states are entitled to exercise under international law."

The Pentagon, in a statement, called the USS Decatur's trip "routine" and said it took place "without incident."

The Chinese Defense Ministry said the operation was "illegal" and "provocative" and that two Chinese warships warned the Decatur to leave, according to Reuters.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/21/politics/us-guided-missile-destroyer-south-china-sea/

Some other news:

President Rodrigo Duterte's colorful language was in full swing on Friday as he hammered the European Union again on Friday for allegedly threatening to cut aid.

'P********!' Duterte blasts E.U. anew

'P********!' Ganyang kaliit ang tingin n'yo sa amin?"
(Son of a b*tch. Is that how low you think of us?)

"Assistance, U.S. aid, you can go to hell. E.U., no wonder you are in shambles now. You cannot even agree to be together or not. Whether to form still a European community or disintegrate. Why? because all your lawyers are all stupid and idiots," Duterte said.

'F*** you,' Duterte tells European Union
http://news.abs-cbn.com/video/news/10/21/16/p-duterte-blasts-eu-anew

Duterte wants to start requiring American travelers to have a visa:

Why Duterte wants PH visa for Americans
http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/10/21/16/why-duterte-wants-ph-visa-for-americans

This guy.. this is definitely an anti-american, anti westerner regime.

[SeaGypsy]

Like I said a few posts ago. The guy needs deading asap, just a dangerous sh#t talking moron, murdering braggart. He can't stop running off at the mouth.

[Sixstrings]

The Communist underground represented by the NPA & CPP is a hell of a lot bigger & stronger than publicly available statistics wpuld lead us to believe. NPA are virtually everywhere, running protection rackets, doing robberies & drug business. Duterte is the closet CPP/ NPA candidate, he is the revolution. The fact that what has held back the communists, namely international remittances & investment, is still severely at risk, has not prevented the election of this wanna be communist stooge, indicates desperation has overtaken rationality.

That's some good background SG, thanks for the post. I'll take your word for it -- drug trafficking connections, and apparently he really does have communist guerilla ties. No wonder he can't act right.

Likely, Duterte just can't last in office.. he's likely to wind up indicted by the Hague eventually, and / or he'll do some worse things, and the US gov will have to force him out out office.

[Plantagenet]

...... the US gov will have to force him out out office.

Great idea!

Maybe Hillary/Obama will start funneling money and weapons to the Islamist insurgents in the Philippines to overthrow Duterte like they've been doing with the Islamist insurgents in Syria to overthrow Assad for the last 6 years

[SeaGypsy]

It's a lot easier than that. Simply a banking freeze, 4 million US resident Pinoy sending $2 billion a month there. That stops, the asswipe is gone in a week or two.

[Sixstrings]

LP senators to Duterte: Senate nod needed to end treaty with US

Four Liberal Party (LP) senators on Friday reminded President Rodrigo Duterte that the power to shape the country’s foreign policy does not rest on him alone.

“Taking the President's statement literally entails an abrogation of the 1951 Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT) with the United States, a binding security and military agreement,” they said in a statement. ...

The senators said Duterte must also consider international realities every time he makes pronouncements that affect the country’s foreign policy. ...

“The Filipino people deserve to know what the official position of the administration is and how these affect the lives of our countrymen residing in all corners of the globe,”said.http://www.rappler.com/nation/149938-duterte-treaties-need-senate-concurrence-lp-senators

Senators caution Duterte on implications of PH-US split

Crossing partylines, senators on Friday warned President Rodrigo Duterte of the implications of the Philippines cutting ties with the United States, saying such a presidential pronouncement should have been well-studied and well-thought-out and not simply “blurted out.”

“Any drastic shift in our foreign policy direction should be well-thought-out and not simply blurted out. It should be a product of deep study and wide discussion. Because of its far-reaching implications, it cannot be an announce now, study later thing,” Senate Minority Leader Ralph Recto said in a statement.

Recto said crafting an independent foreign policy requires introspection, and not impetuousness.

“Yes, our relations with the United States may not be perfect. But a country which has illegally built a great wall of sand in our seas is not, and far from, the epitome of a good friend either,” he said.
http://globalnation.inquirer.net/147399/senators-caution-duterte-on-implications-of-ph-us-split

Philippine senator: "It's time that the President is reminded he is not God. His power emanates from the Constitution:"

Despite Duterte's clarification, senators still worried over 'separate' foreign policy

Senator Leila De Lima argued that strong diplomatic ties will only stand if the military, economic and human rights interests between two states are all pursued. ...

“Obviously, lalong wala s'yang interest to align our foreign policy on the morals/justice/human rights plane with the US, as he prefers to "ideologically align" himself with China and Russia. ...

However, De Lima said that given his often confusing statements, the president is endangering the nation’s interests.

She said Duterte has no absolute power over the country’s foreign policies, even if he is the highest official of the land.

“It's time that the President is reminded he is not god. His power emanates from the Constitution. Irespeto at sundin niya iyon tulad ng ipinangako niya,” she added.

Senator Risa Hontiveros shared the same view, saying an independent foreign policy must uphold the principles of human rights and must serve the interest of the Filipinos.

“He missed the chance to represent the collective aspirations and independence of the Filipino people. Behind President Duterte's fiery anti-west rhetoric is a confused foreign policy riddled with contradictions,” Hontiveros said in a statement.

She encouraged the president to conduct further discussions with stakeholders to iron out the foreign policy.

“An extremely important matter such as this simply cannot be left to the mere judgment of one man alone,” she said.
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/586032/news/nation/despite-duterte-s-clarification-senators-still-worried-over-separate-foreign-policy

Some Filipinos expressed "fear and alarm" at the idea, of separation from the US. In a Facebook poll, 65% of Filipinos said PH is better off with the US, versus China:

Facebook poll: Is the Philippines better off with China than the US?

Naturally, however, comments were already flying fast on social media. Some expressed fear and alarm over the President's decision to "split" from the US, while the President's supporters came to his defense.

Out of more than 5,500 votes as of writing, 65% say that the country is not better off with China.
http://www.rappler.com/technology/social-media/149991-philippines-united-states-china-facebook-poll

[Plantagenet]

LP senators to Duterte: Senate nod needed to end treaty with US

“Taking the President's statement literally entails an abrogation of the 1951 Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT) with the United States, a binding security and military agreement,” they said in a statement. ...

]

Obams has already effectively abrogated the treaty by refusing to help the Philippines boot the Chinese off the Philippine islands they have occupied.

Obams told Duterte to handle it himself when Duterte asked the US for help. That's why Duterte went to Beijing in the first place

[SeaGypsy]

newsinfo.inquirer.net/780836/law-student-duterte-shot-frat-brod-on-campus-in-72.

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/sout ... hilippines

Including remittances, the US is worth about $50 billion a year to retarded Duterte, who is really pissed off with the USA because he was refused a visa over his record fo shooting another student at university in 1972.

Your last post is utter bullshit Planty.

[Plantagenet]

Your last post is utter bullshit Planty.

I posted the link to the story in Bloomberg above documenting Obama's failure to do anything about Chinese aggression and occupation of Phillipines Islands above, gyp. It's not my fault if your reading comprehension is so poor you don't understand the news,

There's a news story today in the New York Times documenting Hillary's involvement in the Philippine mess. The Chinese started this aggression way back in 2010. Sec. Of State Clinton denounced the Chinese moves, and in particular Hillary denounced Chinese occupation of Scarborough shoals. In 2012 Hillary actually went to Manile and gave a speech from the deck of a US destroyer Jin Manila Bay promising the US would help the Philipinos against China.

That was then.....this is now. Six years have gone by since this started, and 4 years have gone by since Hillary raised hopes in Manila by "showing the flag" on a US destroyer. The ICC in The Hauge ruled against China in July 2016 and said the islands belong to the Philippines. Duterte asked Obama for help after the ICC ruling against China and Obama refused and told Duterte to work something out with the Chinese himself.

The New York Times says this is a disaster for Obama's pivot to Asia. If the US wo't stand with the Philippines then we won't stand with Malaysia or Indonesia or Singapore or Japan or any of the other Asian countries facing Chinese aggressions.

Obama has done it again-----this time he's destroyed US credibility in Asia.

Cheers!

[SeaGypsy]

The fact is the Chinese were/ are exploiting a joint exploration contract signed by the recently released from prison former President Arroyo. The UN response to President Aquino's application for recognition of Filipino sovereignty had to take this contract into account (for which Arroyo accepted $2 billion). Duterte fantasticly asked the US to go to war with China over the shoals, did not receive a response, instead the impetus was & still is, that neighboring nations form a consensus in support of Philippines sovereignty, gradually pressuring China to pull back. The US sensibly took a back seat, awaiting a regional response. Duterte went spastic, chucked a burko, swore his head off & went to China to give them an extended contract of exploration, running for 15 years, for less than half the annual value of the US/Phil trade relationship. The guy is a petulant turd with dementia & no basic mathematic or diplomatic ability, totally out of his depth. The sooner he is gone the better.