[SeaGypsy]

Stiff. The reality is they are buying him off exactly how they buy off third world Africa. $24 billion in loans & please pledges of investment, staggered over 15 years/ About $35 per Filipino. At risk the entire BPO (business process outsourcing) industry, worth $25 billion a year, nearly 2 million jobs, which is just the tip of the iceberg. The guy is a fool. If you really think the Chinese respect this idiot, you don't know anything about Chinese people.

[Plantagenet]

If you really think the Chinese respect this idiot, you don't know anything about Chinese people.

The Chinese are showing Duterte every diplomatic respect in Beijing. They aren't lecturing him or demeaning him They don't have to "really respect" him. They just have to be diplomatic and put on a show of respect

The contrast between China's respectful treatment of Duterte and the insults from Obama and Hillary is striking

Cheers

[SeaGypsy]

Cool, you are ok with a nation being played for fools via their fool leader. My preference would be to respect the intelligent people of any country, by supporting things like- genuine rule of Law, sensible economic/ social strategy, building relationships mutually rather than tearing down old ones for the sake of appeasement of bullies.

There is literally no nation in SE Asia, Oceania, which has taken the line of deliberately destroying relationships with- ASEAN, APEC, the EU & UN, in order to curry favour with China & Russia. It's just not necessary, besides being plain stupid.

The war on drugs this moron has sold as the cure all is virtually futile tinkering. I know police there who will kill for a couple hundred bucks. There are hundreds of beneficiaries of political assassinations sitting in power from Barangay Captains to Congressmen & Senators. The children of Marcos & his widow are billionaire Senators, still comfortable & protected by money & gold stolen by Ferdinand Senior decades ago. But every day dozens of petty tricycle driver flip flop wearers with a reputation for smoking ice are murdered in cold blood, along with other random 'criminals'. It's a phucked up travesty of justice, which if it continues will ensure my children & myself will never set foot there again.

[SeaGypsy]

the reality of Duterte Dog Digong's visit to China.

[onlooker]

Duterte you idiot you have traded one master for another

[Tanada]

Duterte you idiot you have traded one master for another

If you have to be a slave picking the master of your choice is a great privilege.

[Sixstrings]

(note: I won't post any more series of articles, I'll just do this one news roundup update)

Russian ambassador is receptive to Duterte's "it's me, China, and Russia against the world" statement, Russian ambassador says Duterte can "make a wish list" for what he wants and implies that Russia would never criticize human rights abuses:

‘Make a wish list’: Russian ambassador says Moscow ready to provide assistance to Philippines

“Formulate your wish list. What kind of assistance do you expect from Russia and we will be ready to sit down with you and discuss what can and should be done,” Russian Ambassador Igor Khovaev told GMA News on Friday.

He went on to state that Russia is open to working with the Philippines in “any area, any field of possible cooperation.”

The ambassador assured the news outlet that Moscow would not “interfere with the domestic affairs of a sovereign state,” and that the “true Russia” is much different than the one portrayed in Hollywood films.

Khovaev added that the Philippines and Russia “deserve to know each other much, much better.”

He also said that Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte impressed Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev during a meeting in Laos last month, and that Moscow supports the leader’s fight against illegal drugs and criminality.
https://www.rt.com/news/363597-russia-philippines-cooperation-duterte/

Some more opposition in the Philippine senate, one senator labeling Duterte a communist:

Trillanes calls Duterte a communist

This was how Senator Antonio Trillanes IV reacted on Friday to President Rodrigo Duterte’s announcement that the Philippines would cut its ties with the United States.

“If he thinks like a communist, talks like a communist, frees the communists, and appoints the communists, then he MUST be a communist,” Trillanes said in a statement.

Asked whether he was referring to Duterte and if he was saying that the President is a communist, Trillanes answered in the affirmative.
http://globalnation.inquirer.net/147375/trillanes-calls-duterte-a-communist

And lastly.. the latest reports are that Duterte government has been backtracking, from severance with the US to now saying that it's just that they're going to have a more independent foreign policy:

Duterte, Back From China Trip, Says He’s Not Severing U.S. Ties

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said he’s not cutting the nation’s cord with the U.S. and that maintaining ties with America will be to the best interest of his country, clarifying comments he made in China during his four-day state visit.

“It’s not severance of ties,” Duterte said in a televised briefing in Davao around midnight after returning from Beijing. “It’s in the best interest of my country that I don’t do that,” he said.

Back in the Philippines, Duterte said that the remarks refer to a foreign policy that doesn’t “dovetail” with America. Duterte’s cabinet members often seek to tone down his statements - a routine they followed again on Thursday and Friday.

Finance Secretary Carlos Dominguez and Economic Planning Secretary Ernesto Pernia said hours after Duterte’s speech in Beijing that the Philippines will maintain relations with the West and that the president is “rebalancing” foreign policy and broadening the country’s alliance.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-21/duterte-back-from-china-trip-says-he-s-not-severing-u-s-ties

Behind Duterte’s Break With the U.S., a Lifetime of Resentment
Philippines president, driven by a sense of grievance over colonial history and perceived slights, threatens to undo a vital American relationship in Asia
http://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-philippine-leaders-break-with-the-u-s-a-lifetime-of-resentment-1477061118

Just to note:

Philippines has major trade ties with the US, call centers and such, which is worth $22 billion and employs 1.2 million Filipinos:

Those jobs outsourced to the Philippines could be in jeopardy if Rodrigo Duterte breaks ties with the US

If you’ve ever called customer support at Amazon, American Express, or Citibank, chances are you were speaking to someone in the Philippines. ...

The business process outsourcing (BPO) industry is the second-largest source of income for the Philippines, generating 1.2 million jobs and $22 billion in revenue in 2015. By one estimate, 77% of BPO services are for American companies.
http://qz.com/815794/if-philippine-president-rodrigo-duterte-breaks-ties-with-the-us-jobs-outsourced-to-the-philippines-could-be-in-jeopardy/

Duterte's flip-flop into bed with China is a disaster for the United States
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-wp-philippines-comment-f3cf30b6-97ad-11e6-bb29-bf2701dbe0a3-20161021-story.html

Obama White House says the rest of the Filipino government acts like "Mike Pence" does, with Trump, always re-explaining and saying the guy at the head of the thing didn't really just say what he did, etc. etc.:

‘Filipino Mike Pence’ — White House’s term for Duterte spokesman

But his latest comments, announcing a “separation” from the United States during a visit to China, appear to have unsettled Washington, even though Abella said that Duterte was simply restating a long-held desire for an independent foreign policy.

Asked for his comment, White House spokesman Josh Earnest replied: “I’ve dubbed that person the Filipino Mike Pence.”
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/filipino-mike-pence-white-houses-term-for-duterte-spokesman-2016-10-21

[Sixstrings]

Stiff. The reality is they are buying him off exactly how they buy off third world Africa. $24 billion in loans & please pledges of investment, staggered over 15 years/ About $35 per Filipino. At risk the entire BPO (business process outsourcing) industry, worth $25 billion a year, nearly 2 million jobs, which is just the tip of the iceberg. The guy is a fool. If you really think the Chinese respect this idiot, you don't know anything about Chinese people.

Well, he was literally a "village idiot." The guy was mayor of a town, and got elected president.

It's the "outsider" thing, and just to note, some of my fellow Americans have been ill advised to be so attracted to electing a total "outsider." Like, just a random physician and just make him president, even though maybe he never went to law school and doesn't know about legal principles, and knows nothing of macro economics, and geopolitics, and defense issues.

Or, Trump. A reality tv star. In that Republican primary, Republican voters were just SO ATTRACTED to wanting an "outsider" so much, just somebody with no establishment connections at all. But really, it's not such a good idea. It can be fine for congressman, but not president. It would be like hiring a car mechanic to be your stock broker, or your lawyer, or your physician.

Experience matters, education matters, civility matters, and knowledge matters.

In legislatures -- yeah, a newly elected rep doesn't know much about anything, yeah they're average folk. But then they get experience, over years, and work their way up and become more qualified.

*Outsiders*, like Duterte in the Philippines that was just a town mayor, *they just don't know much* and aren't exactly renaissance men, to put it bluntly.

Of course, historically, communist dictator leaders often come up from the fields or out in the jungle bush, a "man of the people," etc.

Bottom line about it -- it's just not the American Way, the Australian Way, the Japanese or South Korean Way, the British Way, or European Way, to just put a random village idiot in charge of everything.

Philippines actually does have a congress, and a government, and some democracy and legal tradition. What happened was a populist common people thing, and they elected Duterte -- but that doesn't make the man right, or that the educated people / leaders of the world have to agree with him, or that it's okay for him to take a piss on everyone and be so horrible.

Hopefully Duterte gets some experience fast, or else if he keeps screwing over the USA or somehow forces the Philippine congress to repeal its treaty alliances and international legal commitments (such as the ICC in the hague and basic human rights standards in the world).. then there's consequences, for that.

Ultimately -- I think hopefully democracy in the philippines will work, and Phillipine senators will oppose him etc., just as how the US constitutional system works.

And all of us, in the rest of the world -- maybe we should all think more carefully, about ever voting for "know nothing" "man of the people" "outsiders" that are also outrageous and say horrible things, and also like Putin so much.

[SeaGypsy]

Senators Trillanes, De Lima & Recto, those three only of 24 & none of 321 Congressmen/ women have critisized Duterte openly. The former two are effectively the only definite enemies Duterte has in Government. De Lima is compromised by her inept running of the Justice & Corrections departments under previous administration. Trillanes is seriously ballsy, quite brilliant, ex soldier (naval officer & coop attemp leader) with a knack for forensic accounting. He has come right out calling Duterte a communist on his return. De Lima pointed to the lack of any mandate to make the speech he made in China. Recto pointed to the unnecessary 'unfriending' of long term allies. So yes the obvious facts about the Village Idiot President are being spoken in public by Senators, but the vast majority have no such courage, all having their own skeletons to hide.

[vtsnowedin]

Given the ineptness of the Obama administrations foreign policy it is no surprise that some of our allies will change the terms of engagement between us. Economic realities will probably leave most of our business relations intact and a little experience dealing with China may well bring the Philippines back towards us if we hold out a fair deal to them.

[Sixstrings]

Trillanes is seriously ballsy, quite brilliant, ex soldier with a knack for forensic accounting. He has come right out calling Duterte a communist on his return. De Lima pointed to the lack of any mandate to make the speech he made in China. Recto pointed to the unnecessary 'unfriending' of long term allies. So yes the obvious facts about the Village Idiot President are being spoken in public by Senators, but the vast majority have no such courage, all having their own skeletons to hide.

Good info about the political situation there, SG.

Trillanes sounds like a good guy. If he's the only opposition there is, then the West should probably support him and encourage / support more sensible leaders like him.

[Sixstrings]

Given the ineptness of the Obama administrations foreign policy it is no surprise that some of our allies will change the terms of engagement between us. Economic realities will probably leave most of our business relations intact and a little experience dealing with China may well bring the Philippines back towards us if we hold out a fair deal to them.

HRC is like old HW Bush on foreign policy, she'll do a much better job around the world, than Obama has. (and he wasn't even that bad, he is just a little too much left on foreign policy, and that's what caused a lot of the problems, and his foreign policy wasn't quite assertive enough and paying enough attention)

HRC, is *not* Obama, on foreign policy. She's much closer to traditional Republican types.

Plus, she's in favor of some domestic policy things that will help working and middle class people.

P.S. -- about what could be offered to the Philippines.. what should have happened is that really, a Republican type president (but that's not Trump) that would have put some marines on Scaroborough Shoal and secured it for the Philippines (and rightfully so). And then, it would probably be a President Aquino type right now and not Duterte, the nation having seen some real benefit to American alliance and their "establishment" would be popular.

And in a perfect world, US foreign policy should be looking at corruption issues in the Philippines, to help improve some root problems there, and also help them with their drug problem, the RIGHT way, not this wrong way they're doing.

[SeaGypsy]

There's a good article on Trillanes on wiki. If the average IQ of the Philippines were above 85, there would perhaps be more people like him in Government. It is not. The education system is appalling, the endless election of the same local cabal leaders continues, of which Duterte is one. If it were up to me there would be a complete ban on any political dynasty members running for office, this would leave about 4 people running the country.

[onlooker]

I expect lots of backlash and intrigue to accompany Duterte Presidency. Beyond the polarizing personhood of Duterte and resentment of his low class background is long standing fruitful connections and relations between the upper class elites of PHIL and the US. Yet I cannot help thinking of the logic of cozing up to its giant neighbour

[SeaGypsy]

I don't know who told you his background is low class. His father was Governor of Davao Province under Marcos, his mother was a teacher & civics activist. There is no long term history of the family before this time, aside from their Moro Muslim tribal roots.

[Sixstrings]

Yet I can help thinking of the logic of cozing up to its giant neighbour

Yeah, I've thought of that too, just thinking of it objectively and not just "pro America."

The region is just not gonna be okay with China controlling that south china sea, but otherwise, if the Chinese really did want to develop it and they really did give fair profits to PH.. then that's understandable.

The US government position, by the way, is totally in favor of them having deals with China and investment from China. As long as it's not MILITARY.

And when it comes to south china sea, it's just that China also has to make things right with all the other claiments too, PER THE RULING at the international maritime court.

JUST China + Philippines, aint' gonna work. It's gotta be fair to everyone, per international law, and China genuinely work something fair out with everybody.

BY THE WAY -- everyone is so much against TPP.. but yet TPP is needed, to keep the pacific allies together. That means Australia, too.

The US has to offer tangible economic advantage, and benefit, for us to be more attractive than China is.

Lucky for us, besides just having a lot of money (our GDP is still higher though), China is also a big huge bully and everyone wants to hedge them, so that puts them in our camp.

TPP is important, though. Japan wants it, South Korea wants it, Australia wants it too.

Just because of learning about the foreign policy situation in the Pacific, I'm in favor of TPP now (if we're gonna be globalist then let's do it well! and not half-baked and fumbling).

Domestically in the US -- they ought to raise the minimum wage, do some other things to help wages, and then okay pass the TPP too.

If we don't do TPP, then China will do their own TPP and pull more nations into a new Chinese bloc.

[onlooker]

Okay thanks for the correction Sea. So then is he among the traditional wealthy ruling families of PHIL?

[onlooker]

The problem Six is Dutete came so publicly and forcefully for China and Russia and against US that it will be difficult to backtrack now without undermining his own credibility not to mention regaining trust of the US

[SeaGypsy]

In terms of political dynasty, being the son of a Governor is a very short line in the Philippines, where many dynasties go back hundreds of years. The Moro, southern Mindanao Muslims, ran their own show for most of the Spanish period, so the internal power structures are not known to the extent of the Christian Visayas & Luzon. As to Duterte regaining credibility, since his inauguration, he has continually put his foot in his mouth & had apoligists come forth & backtrack for him. He has none.

[Sixstrings]

The problem Six is Dutete came so publicly and forcefully for China and Russia and against US that it will be difficult to backtrack now without undermining his own credibility not to mention regaining trust of the US

He never had any credibility before, anyway. He's already completely backtracked and said that after all, no deals with the US will be canceled.

And as far as US interaction with Duterte, he doesn't have any real power.

Every time Duterte says something crazy, then his own cabinet secretaries pretty much say "don't listen to him, he's just crazy you know, ignore him and just talk to us."

So that's what the US has been doing. It just ignores Duterte, and deals with Philippine military counterparts, and others in the government, and the US gov doesn't have a problem with any agreements not met (so far) and has no problem with anyone it actually has to deal with, except the "crazy guy" figurehead leader at the top.

Philippines not really severing ties with US, Duterte says

"It is not severance of ties. You say severance of ties, you cut the diplomatic relations. I cannot do that.

"Why? It is in the best interest of my country that we maintain that relationship. Why? Because there are many Filipinos in the United States. Well, Americans of Filipino ancestry.

"Why? Because the people of my country [are] not ready to accept. I said separation -- what I was really saying was separation of a foreign policy. "

There was widespread shock after Duterte announced his "separation" from the United States, suggesting he would cut both economic and military ties in favor of moving closer to China.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/21/asia/duterte-china-philippines-us/

He gave that speech in China, saying "America has lost. I am in YOUR flow now, China. It's me, the big strongman, China and Russia against the world! Total divorce from USA!"

And then, the next day, he says "No, I am not leaving the US. It's not in my country's interests."

So whatever.

edit: I guess, and he gives so many different statements, Duterte WANTS the Filipino people to follow him to China and Russia.. but.. "they are not ready yet" and don't want to yet:

"Why? Because the people of my country [are] not ready to accept. I said separation -- what I was really saying was separation of a foreign policy. "

Anyhow -- no the US government is not going to cancel its treaty alliance (it would take an act of congress), with the Philippines. A TREATY alliance is very serious, it's like NATO, it's forever and all time and eternity.

So far, Duterte has not actually DONE anything, that the US gov has to respond to.

If he does, then Obama and Congress will respond.

At this time, the only problem the US gov has with Duterte is his human rights abuses, and the Hague is gonna put him on notice about that.

Other than that -- under his leadership, obviously the Philippines is a really awful ally and the worst treaty ally we have in the whole world (but it's just all HIM, not any other Filipinos). He just lobbed a big torpedo into US foreign policy in the region, and then the next day says "nevermind, just forget what I said yesterday."