[SDC]

However, the very nature of peak oil will ensure a short lifespan for any type of centralized control over this continent.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, the Romans did fairly well for quite a while with that very task, and they had nothing near the level of technology we do now.

[PenultimateManStanding]

However, the very nature of peak oil will ensure a short lifespan for any type of centralized control over this continent.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, the Romans did fairly well for quite a while with that very task, and they had nothing near the level of technology we do now.

they had human capital, tradition, and plenty of continuity with the past. We have very little. The pace of change has completely wiped out the culture of 50 years ago. This is what makes the situation so dire: there is no fall back, there's nothing to fall back to. No Plan B, we're out on a tight rope with no net below us.

[gampy]

Hmmm...Roman Empire. Chicken or the egg question I think.

Did Rome begin to decay because they got too big, or did they get too big because they began to decay?

Personally, I think Rome died when the Caesars took control of the Republic. I think the same is true of the U.S. I think imperial overshoot is really the result of the death of the American Republic post WW2.

Sorry , off topic.

[Whitefang]

Well, by now it should be fairly clear to internet addicts that our worldly elite is reserving luxery seats on this Titanic going down now. About every western nation is preparing for an open military rule to control the billions of slaves instead of the democratic soap, freedom to choose model/make and date of car, elections and the rest we still enjoy today.

Russia has followed the same track, China has never left the open control of elite. Our own leaders are bombing people on the homeland and abroad. Shanghai ready to counterpunch. Climate is getting into full grown chaos, resources are dwindling, arms are up and going.

The coming is the big fat kill, the huge bill we are to pay for our collective stupidity in the use of ourselves, others and the earth with it's inhabitants. No way, with whatever private army will elite and people survive the economic crash, then attempts for control, chaos in cities and cultured lands.

Some individuals with sobriety and nature will start again work together and found the next episode of our human enterprise. Sound advice is to head North when the domino's start tumbling and create the momentum that brings civil war at your door.

2 or 3 years for economy, then in a decade or so the end of Christianity/Jews/Islam / banking/business/global politics, our precious consuming culture a failure. We'll be better of with all the s* we do and produce, but then you need to stay alive and that will not be without serious effort futurewise. Alter your self, pity in ruthlessness....

No way to steer this ship away from disaster so buckle up and prepare.

[watchdogmovement]

Source

US DOJ ALBERTO GONZALES Office of the Attorney General - 202-353-1555 [email protected]

ACLU: UNCONSTITUTIONAL PATRIOT ACT
CONGRESS DID NOT READ THE PATRIOT ACT BEFORE THEY SIGNED IT ! ! !
Some of the provisions of the Patriot Act have already been ruled unconstituional in several federal courts. Since Congress did NOT read the Patriot Act before they signed it- it makes the Patriot Act illegal, unlawful and unconstitutional and cannot be enforce if challeneged in federal court. Government agents are abusing the Patriot Act for non-terrorism purposes and to harass and destroy peoples lives.

Patriot Act used unlawfully used against Strip Club owner

Review

ACLU

article

Washington Post

Action

Ripe for abuse

[max_power29]

So is the IRS and the income tax but the government does not care.

"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun". --Mao Tse-tung

[Newsseeker]

So is the IRS and the income tax but the government does not care.

"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun". --Mao Tse-tung

Should another terrorist attack occur we will be living under the Iron Heel. Then everyone will be in for a valuable lesson about power.

[Plantagenet]

CONGRESS DID NOT READ THE PATRIOT ACT BEFORE THEY SIGNED IT ! ! !

Congress doesn't "sign" any of the acts they vote to pass.

[smallpoxgirl]

Congress doesn't "sign" any of the acts they vote to pass.

I'd bet they don't read most of them either.

I've read a few acts. It's incredibly tedious. "In section 2(d)(a) the word 'and' shall be struck and the word 'or' inserted" What's that mean? Well, after digging through the USC for 15 minutes, you find out that search warrants just became optional or some such.

[PrairieMule]

Congress doesn't "sign" any of the acts they vote to pass.

I'd bet they don't read most of them either.

I've read a few acts. It's incredibly tedious. "In section 2(d)(a) the word 'and' shall be struck and the word 'or' inserted" What's that mean? Well, after digging through the USC for 15 minutes, you find out that search warrants just became optional or some such.

I tried reading just one sub-section in the first PA regarding developing and recruiting through the education system. It was over 90 pages long.

[Plantagenet]

Good point.

And Congresspeople not only don't read it....they don't actually write all those long, boring laws themselves either. Much of that verbiage is actually written by the Congressional staffers with some of stinkiest stuff coming straight from lobbyists and special interest groups who are tailoring laws to benefit..........themselves and their clients.

[cynicalheretic]

So is the IRS and the income tax but the government does not care.

"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun". --Mao Tse-tung

Should another terrorist attack occur we will be living under the Iron Heel. Then everyone will be in for a valuable lesson about power.

Well by then, it is much to late.

[dukey]

[Jotapay]

These liberal hypocrites are no better than Bush and his Neo-Con filth. Does it even matter who I vote for any more in regards to getting my Liberty back?

http://rawstory.com/2009/10/dem-control ... rovisions/

Dem-controlled Senate Judiciary Committee extends PATRIOT Act provisions

Democratic Senator Russ Feingold said he feared handing a "blank check" to law enforcement agencies and criticized the Democrat-controlled committee for not passing safeguards that even Republicans supported during the Bush administration.

"But what was most upsetting was the apparent willingness of too many members to defer completely to behind the scenes complaints from the FBI and the Justice Department, even though the administration has yet to take a public position on any of the improvements that I and other senators have proposed. ... [While] I am left scratching my head trying to understand how a committee controlled by a wide Democratic margin could support the bill it approved today, I will continue to work with my colleagues to try to make improvements to this bill."

Michael Macleod-Ball, acting director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Washington legislative office said the rights group was "disappointed" that further moves were not made to protect civil liberties.

"This truly was a missed opportunity for the Senate Judiciary Committee to right the wrongs of the PATRIOT Act," he said.

"We urge the Senate to adopt amendments on the floor that will bring this bill in line with the Constitution."

[Homesteader]

[quote="Jotapay"]These liberal hypocrites are no better than Bush and his Neo-Con filth. Does it even matter who I vote for any more in regards to getting my Liberty back?quote]

J, I believe you answered your own question. It is truly a one party system. Even the illusion is gone now.

[flapjax]

Lets say it was lifted and then we have another attack. Who will take the blame? Voters wouldn't take the brunt of it. Sad to say, but now that it is there I don't see it going away any time soon. Wish it never happened in the first place.

[smallpoxgirl]

I think Americans have gotten to a place where we just fundamentally hate being free. The world has become so complex and interconnected that freedom just seems too scary. We're so dependent on such a big infrastructure to provide our basic needs for us that we just desperately want the illusion that someone powerful is controlling everything and taking care of us. Its the same emotional process, I think, that Germans went through during the Weimar Republic and Russians went through following the February Revolution.

[efarmer]

I agree with your conclusions SPG, we are at a time where many of us want
some overarching logic from a centralized place that addresses the observed
chaos.

Between us girls, think we are gonna get any?

Abuse of power and provisions to make it easier are only protested by
the out of power political party. Once either party is in, they can't
bear the thought of giving any power up or wait very long to try the new
stuff out and see how it works.

Think simple. This is like hillbillies with ATVs on public land with free
gas and health insurance. Their teeth are better and they do TV commercials
sometimes, but other than that...

[Roy]

But wait. What happened to the Democrats being against the wars and other Bush follies?

Oh yeah, they are for them too.

Partisan bickering is pointless. Both parties have the same goal.

People who perpetuate the partisan bickering are part of the problem and are effectively divided/conquered.

I can't believe the number of people who still believe everything is the 'other' party's fault.

Or maybe I can.

[mos6507]

People who perpetuate the partisan bickering are part of the problem and are effectively divided/conquered.

More to the point, it's ideological zealotry, something peakers are not immune to either.

Shall we paint with this?