[JPL]

JPL,

Would we have international support if it looked like the Taliban were about to capture a nuclear weapon?

I think we would, at least among the suspected targets of that weapon (London, Berlin, etc.).

The Saudis might not like it, but screw'em we have bigger priorities.

But you're right. We don't really care about world opinion anymore. I guess number 8 is off the list, permanently.

International support is not impossible in such a scenario but it [support] can't be used as a concept-tool for American policy-makers. That's the point I'm trying to make - as long as it's got through then I'm happy.

Apologies for the shouting...

JP

[Schmuto]

Pretty basic 2+2 here folks. First, read this article: link

Next, see this map: Map

Finally, consider that India and China's access to the resources of the Caspian Basin is the single largest threat to U.S. hegemony.

[americandream]

India evaded talks for a reason and it has everything to do with the fact that both Pakistan and Iran are agents for elitist interest in the region (as is super factory China). Don't be taken in by the posturing. That's for the benefit of the loyal drones.

[mos6507]

The biggest thread to US hegemony are the various ways Pakistan or Iran could start WWIII.

[Schmuto]

The biggest thread to US hegemony are the various ways Pakistan or Iran could start WWIII.

Neither Pakistan nor Iran is a threat to the U.S.. We're there for the oil Mos, and you know it as a PO guy. I'm impressed that your Zionism is stronger than your Peak Oilism.

In unrelated news, 50% of Israelis that were polled recently said that they'd favor an immediate attack on Iran. If we say 75% of them were Jews and the others Goyim, then that means that we can extrapolate that 66% of all Jews in Israel are in favor of an immediate attack on Iran.

And Mos is worried about Iran starting WWIII? 2/3rds of Jews in Israel, if given the button, would push it to attack Iran, send oil to 300, start a holy war that would transcend all borders, and lead to the immediate end of life as we know it . . .

. . . and Mos thinks that Iran is the threat to America?

[mos6507]

Neither Pakistan nor Iran is a threat to the U.S..

So, um, when the Mumbai bombings went off and we were on the verge of nuclear war between India and Pakistan, that was of no concern to the US? That's not even taking into account what might happen if the taliban get access to nukes? Need I go on?

We're there for the oil Mos, and you know it as a PO guy.

Oil factors are not mutually exclusive with rogue states. Pointing all fingers back at the US is really lazy.

In unrelated news, 50% of Israelis that were polled recently said that they'd favor an immediate attack on Iran.

I don't blame them. That tiny country can't afford a mushroom cloud over one of its cities before the international community comes around. I think Obama's doing the best he can to keep a lid on this tinderbox. Iran has done everything in its power to scuttle opportunities to resolve this issue. The pending direct negotiations after Iranian elections are likely to be the last chance for a negotiated solution. If Iran walks away from the table, I'd say whatever comes next is their own damn fault.

[americandream]

Mos is not too far opff the mark in terms of his antipathy towards Islam. The muslim has a ranking system of bullying. He is afraid of the West and western culture in general simply because we have the ability of whop his ass and do it good. The islamic elite are possibly the most expendable group of humans on the planet due to their utter lack of any values other than self interest, complete lack of any redeeming values and total degeneracy. They serve a use to the West as they come at quite a nice price. We protect them and they serve our interest in keeping the mass in a state of hypnotic mesmerisiation with foney baloney while obliging with the oil.

However the muslim has an utter disregard for the Jew and hindu as lower beings, gleaned largely from said foney baloney. The Jew fortunately has checkmated the muslim in having secured some power in the US and quite rightly so. When confronted with enemies of the likes of the Saudi household of spongers, I would make sure I'm on good terms with the neighbourhood strongman.

[americandream]

And don't tell me about the sustained insurgency in Iraq or Afghanistan. If the TPTB wanted to bring the Talleyban into line, they would do it in a snap. Pakistan is nohing. These people are kept semi -feudal and doped to the eyeballs on Islam by bearded big shots who serve our interests whilst they frequent our brothels and night clubs between prayers.

[pablonite]

In unrelated news, 50% of Israelis that were polled recently said that they'd favor an immediate attack on Iran.

I believe polls are used not to gauge public opinion but to form it.

Any poll can be entirely manipulated, first pick who gets polled and then word the questions in a form that elicits the desired response.

This particular poll, carried out by an Israeli think tank that studies Iran, wants to prepare Israelite's for the day their country preemptively bombs Iran.

Chomsky calls it manufacturing consent and it's been going on for a while now, manufactured polls are one aspect of the consensus machine in the west.

[americandream]

I guess the koranic antipathy towards the Jew is a form of manufacturing consent to discriminate against the Jew and eventually terrorise him from the region.

Edit: replaced double post with a reply.

[Tyler_JC]

Both countries are large, strategically important, and are run by (in the case of Iran) or full of (in the case of Pakistan) people who are not friendly with the United States.

One is trying to build nuclear weapons, the other already has nuclear weapons.

One has a leader who has denounced the United States and its former president. The other has lots of people actively killing American soldiers in Afghanistan.

I'd say those are countries worth paying attention to and I'd say we might want to be concerned.

And if you believe that Israel is actually going to bomb Iran, you can put money on it with www.intrade.com. Current odds of a "USA and/or Israel to execute an overt Air Strike against Iran by 31 Dec 2009" are 11%.

You could make a small fortune if you're confident that it will happen.

[Homesteader]

Mos is not too far opff the mark in terms of his antipathy towards Islam. The muslim has a ranking system of bullying. He is afraid of the West and western culture in general simply because we have the ability of whop his ass and do it good. The islamic elite are possibly the most expendable group of humans on the planet due to their utter lack of any values other than self interest, complete lack of any redeeming values and total degeneracy. They serve a use to the West as they come at quite a nice price. We protect them and they serve our interest in keeping the mass in a state of hypnotic mesmerisiation with foney baloney while obliging with the oil.

However the muslim has an utter disregard for the Jew and hindu as lower beings, gleaned largely from said foney baloney. The Jew fortunately has checkmated the muslim in having secured some power in the US and quite rightly so. When confronted with enemies of the likes of the Saudi household of spongers, I would make sure I'm on good terms with the neighbourhood strongman.

From mine and others experience this is more accurate than many of you may ever imagine.

In addition to their disregard for the Jew and Hindu add Phillipinos and any other group that is here slaving for them. Most are slaves or indentured servants unable to leave since their paperwork is confiscated on arrival.

[toast]

If Iran develops a nuclear weapon, I believe it would be used as a defensive deterrent. In other words, no first strike. By nature, the Iranians are not aggressive hedonistic people. Am I wrong?

[americandream]

If Iran develops a nuclear weapon, I believe it would be used as a defensive deterrent. In other words, no first strike. By nature, the Iranians are not aggressive hedonistic people. Am I wrong?

No one's aggressive or hedonistic by nature. Dose them
up on any irrational belief system and you can cause them to believe any nonsense. Muslims hold to the belief that Jews are an evil spawn of satan and therefore warrant summary exclusion or death. Iran is muslim. Iran does not co-exist with Jews, it magnanimously tolerates them. See the difference?

[toast]

Israel has tried to bribe the large Iranian Jewish community to migrate to Israel but they are happy to live and coexist in Iran.

[americandream]

Israel has tried to bribe the large Iranian Jewish community to migrate to Israel but they are happy to live and coexist in Iran.

Unless a Mullah comes along who notches up the latent anti-jewish paranoia. Like I said, maganimous tolerance for as long as they feel the urge.

[toast]

Let me put you straight. Zionist not Judaism is the satanic spawn. Those agitator of latent anti-jewish paranoia for Jews living in surrounding Arab states has been by the hands of zionist instigators. Forcing many Jews to migrate to Israel by design.

[ForlornHope]

Why are Pakistan and Iran always in the news?
Muslim countries, 'nuff said.
F.H.

[Schmuto]

It's amazing how the analysis of why Muslims don't like the U.S., for the war hawks on this board, seems to start somewhere in the last 20 years.

We've been dicking around in the ME for 70 years.

I don't know - maybe our Creator just blessed me with an abundance of common sense.

Seems common sense to me that, if we don't want people to hate us, we should start by staying the hell out of their affairs.

So how about this:

1. We apologize to Iran for CIA activities in the 50s that lead to the overthrow of a popular leader.
2. We leave Iraq and Afghanistan.
3. We make any demands on Iran contingent upon making the same demands, and having them met, on Israel.
4. We acknowledge that we're in the region for energy and that the whole WMD was a scam.
5. We stop blocking all UN measures aimed at calling out Israel's abusive, racist policies.
6. We stop unconditionally supporting Israel.


Do these things, and the Muslim world will hate us a lot less.

[americandream]

I think its disingenuous for the Arabs in particular and Muslims generally to complain about this or other injustice whilst they preside over:

1 Elites in cahoots with the cabal on Wall Street;

2 Elites actively funding the most repressive of ideas around the world. Who was it who both actively participated in the funding and ideologising of the Islamic militant worldwide?..the Saudis!

3 Elites actively funding and propagating ideas of territorial exclusivism whilst in the next breath demanding justice from us non-muslims. Can anyone point to a single muslim majority but secular country on this entire globe apart from Turkey? One country out of a global population of one billion Islamics is abysmal.

4 Elites who openly operate some of the most unjust economies in this woefully unequal world. Dubai to name just one Islamic country is up there with the beacons of exploitation and inequity.

It's one thing to sympathise with a group with genuine grievances and at the least the pretense to clean hands. Yet how is one to take the Palestinian seriously whenever he laments his predicament as an exploited Muslim, when one casts ones eyes across the Muslim world with its demands for special privileges in the secular world (Sharia in the UK for example), its demands for exclusivism in territories it covets (Islamic Kashmir out of what is a secular country) and its record of luke warm to outright intolerance in territories where Islam rules.

How is one to point the finger at Israel when those who demand justice from it are unfathomably worse. Those who adhere to the exclusivist creed of Islam will not enjoy my support for as long as they practice duplicity. Yes, I will actively support a secular impulse for justice in Israel/Palestine whenever that arises...an Islamic one...NEVER!