[wisconsin_cur]

how does anyone know there isn't already a nuke or 2 here waiting the right signal !! and then well you have all saw the pictures of what a nuke blast would look like.

How do we not know that a chip has not been planted in each of our brains while we sleep waiting for the command to rise up and seize the reigns of power for the Communist Vietnamese?

If there were nukes here they would have been used. If you are a terrorist and have nuclear weapons and intend to use them, you do not wait around for them to be found. You push the button.

To the point, given the choice of letting them (potentially) fall into Taliban hands or seize them of course you must try to seize them. That being said I would guess that in those circumstances a handful of Pakistani Generals would be more than happy to let us fly in a couple C5A Galaxy's to transport the nukes out of the country in exchange for refuge for themselves and their extended families.

[Plantagenet]

If it was easy to launch a commando raid into Pakistan and secure dozens of Paki nuclear missiles, the Indians would've done it already.

The assumption that the Paki generals are reasonable men who will turn traitor and help the US crusaders invade their country and take out their own nuclear force seems overly optimistic.

There is no way the US could let the upper levels of the Paki government and military even know in advance of a US invasion because it would "leak." The invasions would have to be a complete surprise attack.

Once a US invasion begins, the Paki military would face a "use it or lose it" situation, and if they managed to fire off even a few of their nukes it would ruin everyone's day in India.

[Plantagenet]

The NY TIMES has a new article today on this issue......it says
PAKISTAN RAPIDLY BUILDING MORE NUKES

Pakistan rapidly building more nukes

The NYT says Pakistan is diverting US military aid supposedly dedicated to fighting al Qaida in order to pay for their expanded nuke program.

Hey....weren't the Pakis just in DC hitting up Obama for billions more in aid to supposedly fight Al Qaida?

[rangerone314]

I can't help but wonder at what the odds of success of such an operation would be. Special forces, while well-equipped and well-trained would be attacking extremely heavily guarded facilities. They are not numerous.

A large scale assault with huge numbers of troops would have the disadvantage of being seen coming, given the logistics.

[wisconsin_cur]

We are talking about a situation where those facilities are at risk of falling into Taliban hands... I think we would describe that situation as the crumbling of the state.

When the state is dead it changes your vision of the future. No one wants to be the last person to die in a war or a lost cause. I am convinced that in that situation a few million dollars to grease the wheels and no one fires a shot.

[rangerone314]

Given how effective and honest Pakistan has been in dealing with us with regards to the Taliban, I'm sure they have been more than forthright in telling us where all their nuclear weapons are.

I'm sure, given the accuracy of our intelligence on the location of Bin Laden, we know where all their nukes are.

[RdSnt]

You guys are so funny it hurts. The US military is the keystone cops only it's not funny considering how many civilians they manage to kill with the precision munitions. In 100 years they haven't done a military operation on their own that they haven't fucked up.
Panama? you have got to be kidding! They used loud music to get Noreiga, and then what happened.

Of course the US knows precisely where all the Pakistani nukes are at all times, right? And of course the Pakistani elite hasn't a clue what's going on in the world and the threat that the US represents. They are just a bunch of hicks come down from the hills.

You are right about one thing though, we should secure the nukes from the terrorists. I think Canada should drop in on the US unannounced and secure all the nukes there. We wouldn't want some highschool drop-out jarhead panicing and launching one of those things indescriminately, like they are trained to do with all their other ordinace.

[Fishman]

Clearly we would have to get UN approval, a consensus, oh wait, we all know that's BS.
NATO should intervene, clearly all of Europe would agree for one action, no wait, that's BS They won'tt even take those Gitmo folks they've been railing against us having.
Obama should gather data , make a decision, and act,. No that won't work, someone will have goosed the data, and clearly intervening in Pakistan would be a war crime. We might even have to ask a harsh question, some one would cry boo hoo, and then there would be terrible issues with torture. Oh well, guess New Deli goes up in smoke. Solves all those jobs outsourced to India. Wow, a win win for Obama
(I'm rotf, lmao)

[rangerone314]

You guys are so funny it hurts. The US military is the keystone cops only it's not funny considering how many civilians they manage to kill with the precision munitions. In 100 years they haven't done a military operation on their own that they haven't fucked up.
Panama? you have got to be kidding! They used loud music to get Noreiga, and then what happened.

Of course the US knows precisely where all the Pakistani nukes are at all times, right? And of course the Pakistani elite hasn't a clue what's going on in the world and the threat that the US represents. They are just a bunch of hicks come down from the hills.

You are right about one thing though, we should secure the nukes from the terrorists. I think Canada should drop in on the US unannounced and secure all the nukes there. We wouldn't want some highschool drop-out jarhead panicing and launching one of those things indescriminately, like they are trained to do with all their other ordinace.

That was a bit harsh on the mil; how about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Incheon

[Plantagenet]

The assumption that higher ups in the Pakistani military will betray their own country and help the US invade them seems unlikely.

Its rather more likely that there are many supporters of the Taliban in the Pakistani miitary who would much rather see their Muslim brothers in the Taliban get control of the nukes then have the christian crusaders from the US invade their country.

[Windmills]

Good point. A complete lack of cooperation on the part of the Pakistanis could turn the entire operation into a disaster. Given the massive amount of mistrust stirred up by the Bush administration, it's likely that a whole slew of conspiracy theories against the US would arise among the Pakistani leadership in such a case. Just one example: it's a US/Indian plot to disarm Pakistan and leave them defenseless against a follow up, Indian-led, US-backed full scale invasion.

What a mess. Plenty of people predicted that there would be a domino effect from Bush's "war" on terror in the Middle East. The pieces just fell onto each other a little more slowly than calculated.

[Plantagenet]

Good point. A complete lack of cooperation on the part of the Pakistanis could turn the entire operation into a disaster. Given the massive amount of mistrust stirred up by the Bush administration, it's likely that a whole slew of conspiracy theories against the US would arise among the Pakistani leadership in such a case. Just one example: it's a US/Indian plot to disarm Pakistan and leave them defenseless against a follow up, Indian-led, US-backed full scale invasion.

What a mess. Plenty of people predicted that there would be a domino effect from Bush's "war" on terror in the Middle East. The pieces just fell onto each other a little more slowly than calculated.

Bush's war on terror is now Obama's war on terror. Bush and Obama have essentially the same policies except in Afghanistan and Pakistan where Obama is much more aggressive and bellicose.

[mos6507]

Obama is much more aggressive and bellicose.

Bullsh*t. Bush started a war over fake weapons of mass destruction. If you're going to a fight a war, preventing the use of real weapons of mass destruction would be as good a reason as any.

[Plantagenet]

Obama is much more aggressive and bellicose.

Bullsh*t. Bush started a war over fake weapons of mass destruction. If you're going to a fight a war, preventing the use of real weapons of mass destruction would be as good a reason as any.

Your dishonest partial quote shows what a liar you are, Moss.

My post refers to Obama being more aggressive in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

[rangerone314]

Obama is much more aggressive and bellicose.

Bullsh*t. Bush started a war over fake weapons of mass destruction. If you're going to a fight a war, preventing the use of real weapons of mass destruction would be as good a reason as any.

Your dishonest partial quote shows what a liar you are, Moss.

My post refers to Obama being more aggressive in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Actually Saddam built the Death Star, the ultimate weapon of mass destruction, but we didn't find it when we invaded because it was in "a galaxy far far away"

[Plantagenet]

Obama is much more aggressive and bellicose.

Bullsh*t. Bush started a war over fake weapons of mass destruction. If you're going to a fight a war, preventing the use of real weapons of mass destruction would be as good a reason as any.

Your dishonest partial quote shows what a liar you are, Moss.

My post refers to Obama being more aggressive in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Actually Saddam built the Death Star, the ultimate weapon of mass destruction, but we didn't find it when we invaded because it was in "a galaxy far far away"

We won't have any problems locating all the nukes in Pakistan because we'll be able to use the FORCE now.

[mos6507]

When all else fails, reach for the cheap political cartoon, eh Planty? You're hopeless.

[Plantagenet]

[RdSnt]

You guys are so funny it hurts. The US military is the keystone cops only it's not funny considering how many civilians they manage to kill with the precision munitions. In 100 years they haven't done a military operation on their own that they haven't fucked up.
Panama? you have got to be kidding! They used loud music to get Noreiga, and then what happened.

Of course the US knows precisely where all the Pakistani nukes are at all times, right? And of course the Pakistani elite hasn't a clue what's going on in the world and the threat that the US represents. They are just a bunch of hicks come down from the hills.

You are right about one thing though, we should secure the nukes from the terrorists. I think Canada should drop in on the US unannounced and secure all the nukes there. We wouldn't want some highschool drop-out jarhead panicing and launching one of those things indescriminately, like they are trained to do with all their other ordinace.

That was a bit harsh on the mil; how about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Incheon

As is mentioned in the wiki, the landing was good but the advance on Seoul was a mess.
Let's keep in mind the broader picture here and see the failure of the Korean war based on the results; ie: North Korea.

Yes, I am harsh on the US military, partly because of their low quality of training and over-reliance on hardware. More specifically though, you cannot isolate the military from its government.
What other conclusion can be drawn when we look at the disasterous results of global US interference.

[JPL]

The US will send military forces into Pakiston to secure the Paki nukes if the Taliban looks like it will seize the nukes

Late to the discussion (sorry) but that dull thumping noise from the direction of Europe is me banging my head against the desk from 3000 mile away...

OH NO NOT AGAIN I CANNOT BELIEVE IT PLEASE TELL ME THIS IS NOT HAPPENING AGAIN

There. That feels better. Thanks. I shall go away now. Bye.

JP