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THE Pakistan Thread (merged)

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Re: Pakistan ends Afghanistan supply transit

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 30 Sep 2010, 23:28:11

Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal consists of approximately 60 nuclear warheads. Pakistan continues fissile material production for weapons, and is adding to it's weapons production facilities and delivery vehicles.

When India conducted nuclear weapon tests on May 12, 1998, Pakistan’s government responded two weeks later on May 28 and May 30 with six tests at the Chagai Hills test site in western Pakistan. Test yields were about 10 kilotons and 5 kilotons, according to seismic analysis.

U.S. plans to secure Pakistani nuclear weapons in case of a loss of control by the Pakistani government were famously addressed in Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice’s confirmation hearing in January 2005. In response to a question from Senator John Kerry asking what would happen to Pakistan’s nuclear weapons in the event of a radical Islamic coup in Islamabad, Secretary Rice answered, “We have noted this problem, and we are prepared to try to deal with it.” On November 12, 2007, responding to press reports about this contingency, a Pakistan Foreign Office spokesperson said, “Pakistan possesses adequate retaliatory capacity to defend its strategic assets and Sovereignty."

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Re: Pakistan ends Afghanistan supply transit

Unread postby gollum » Fri 01 Oct 2010, 01:11:02

What percentage of supplies transit Pakistan?
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Re: Pakistan ends Afghanistan supply transit

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 01 Oct 2010, 01:12:48

Now compared to Cambodia and Laos during the Vietnam War.

video

70% of all supplies are...were delivered through Pakistan.

Since only non-lethal supplies are delivered through Russia, the percentage of military supplies is higher.
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Fri 01 Oct 2010, 01:24:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pakistan ends Afghanistan supply transit

Unread postby gollum » Fri 01 Oct 2010, 01:18:55

Cid_Yama wrote:Now compared to Cambodia and Laos during the Vietnam War.

video

70% of all supplies are delivered through Pakistan.

Since only non-lethal supplies are delivered through Russia, the percentage of military supplies is higher.



Thanks for the info, I'd say if they stick to this we have a huge problem, although I suspect most of this is geared for domestic pakistani consumption.
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Re: Pakistan ends Afghanistan supply transit

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 01 Oct 2010, 01:27:04

Please. We are no longer allowed to supply Afghanistan through Pakistan. The war is over, unless you want to go to war against a nuclear nation, who may decide the war needs to come to you.

You want to force Pakistan to ally with Iran, be my guest, but you won't like it.
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Re: Pakistan ends Afghanistan supply transit

Unread postby gollum » Fri 01 Oct 2010, 01:32:25

Cid_Yama wrote:Please. We are no longer allowed to supply Afghanistan through Pakistan. The war is over, unless you want to go to war against a nuclear nation, who may decide the war needs to come to you.



Believe you me I think this has to be the stupidest enterprise we have engaged in during the last 50 years, I just think the Pakistanis are blustering. Having said that I could be wrong, definitely worth watching the next few days.
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Re: Pakistan ends Afghanistan supply transit

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 01 Oct 2010, 01:43:04

gollum wrote:
Cid_Yama wrote:Please. We are no longer allowed to supply Afghanistan through Pakistan. The war is over, unless you want to go to war against a nuclear nation, who may decide the war needs to come to you.

Believe you me I think this has to be the stupidest enterprise we have engaged in during the last 50 years.


The reason we are there is that Pakistan has nuclear weapons and we are worried about them falling into the hands of people that will bring them to the US and set them off.

You don't tell the American people that.

But it is a real threat.
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Re: Pakistan ends Afghanistan supply transit

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 01 Oct 2010, 02:55:33

If you are confused by my position, so am I. The threat is real. The abrogation of a sovereign nation by our military forces is real.

We are right, we are wrong.

Actually we need to not creep into this. We either take out the threat immediately, or diplomatically reduce tensions and reestablish relations.

The most dangerous position for us is where we are now.
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Fri 01 Oct 2010, 04:58:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pakistan ends Afghanistan supply transit

Unread postby Shar_Lamagne » Fri 01 Oct 2010, 04:53:49

And the Band played Waltzing Matilda

Think. Then think again.
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Re: Pakistan ends Afghanistan supply transit

Unread postby gollum » Fri 01 Oct 2010, 08:45:30

Any updates on this today?
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Re: Pakistan ends Afghanistan supply transit

Unread postby efarmer » Fri 01 Oct 2010, 12:48:54

The Pakistani ISI intelligence service has been the money behind the Taliban and played al Qaeda as a chess piece to suit their purposes. This is why the Taliban offered Bush bin Laden early on in the fiasco on the condition that he be delivered to Pakistan and that they would provide a fair hearing for him and broker any evidence presented by America that he was involved in 911, it was of course refused.
Central to their thinking is an extreme fear and paranoia about India and the Taliban was a very cheap way of making sure Afghanistan remained on ice for anyone but Pakistan to use as a buffer zone.
Typical of geopolitics.

When Bush chickened out on his promise to seek out al Qaeda no matter where they were, the die was cast, he then transferred billions to the military dictator of Pakistan to buy cooperation and funded his own opposition in Afghanistan as well as spread money around to all the elite of Pakistan who double gamed America up until now. In 2008, the dictator went into exile in London, leaving a hand picked yes man in charge of the nation, and producing a puppet government to pretend they call the shots. Obama has made aid conditional to the puppet government on it not just being pilfered off by the ruling elite and military. To insure the puppet government did not negotiate peace with India, the Pak military and ISI seems to have engineered the Mumbai massacre to make sure the civilian government does not gain any real power or progress for Pakistani citizens outside of military authority.

Right now, the Pak dictator is in London, and all the wealthy elite in Pakistan are calling for his return to run the nation.

So you have a civilian government in Pakistan that has major decisions taken by the military instead of it, has a military that is hedged among every terrorist group of any importance, and has all the concentrated wealth and power in the nation calling for a return to military dictatorship. You have an Afghan leader who is so hopelessly corrupt and seen as useless by his citizens, that he is merely an installed puppet of George Bush and now Obama. (Which he is.) You have an American President who has touched the third rail in America, that is, attempting to wind down lucrative and open ended warfare for our military industrial complex. This American president is under political threat at home by groups that demanded immediate end to military action and those who wish it to continue on it's merry way for as many lucrative decades as it possibly can. And now we have a crisis.

Obama has the leverage to make huge demands on Pakistan as well as to pursue new military operations within a Pakistan that has played out a very naked double game for 9 years, and to do so before they can have a military coup or during one and reassemble a credible response.

The advantage will circulate due to passage of time and events, I assume that while Obama has most of the leverage, he will use it to extricate America from bleeding out in the Hindu Kush and under a scenario that American citizens will accept. The annihilation of al Qaeda and the Taliban in the Hindu Kush, and leaving Pakistan as screwed up as it has been for decades. Their arch rival India, has only upside from all of this, and has absorbed the Mumbai atrocity without retaliation.
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Re: Pakistan ends Afghanistan supply transit

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 01 Oct 2010, 14:09:06

gollum wrote:Any updates on this today?


The newest development is that Islamicists in Pakistan attacked twice on Friday and destroyed 28 oil tankers in a NATO (i.e. US) truck caravan headed across Pakistan to Afghanistan.

NATO tankers burned in Pakistan
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Re: Pakistan ends Afghanistan supply transit

Unread postby highlander » Fri 01 Oct 2010, 14:37:15

The Paks closed ONE route into Afganistan. The tankers were going around the blocked route when they were attacked. The US gives too much money to the Paks for them to get too uppity, nucks or not.
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U.S. Apologizes as Attacks in Pakistan Continue

Unread postby mattduke » Wed 06 Oct 2010, 18:51:17

Image
Dozens of tanker trucks carrying fuel to Afghanistan for NATO troops were torched near Quetta in western Pakistan on Wednesday, the third major attack on supplies since Pakistan closed a border crossing to Afghanistan a week ago and the first at the only checkpoint that remained open.

Idled NATO Supply Trucks in Pakistan Are Attacked Again (October 6, 2010)

The latest sabotage came as American officials for the first time offered an explicit apology to Pakistan over a shooting that led to the closing of the other border crossing, possibly laying the ground work for its reopening.


That crossing was closed last week in protest over NATO helicopter strikes against a mountainous border post at Khurram manned by Pakistani paramilitary soldiers.

But in a sign of possible movement, NATO’s International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan said a joint assessment with Pakistan showed that NATO helicopter crews had shot at Pakistani border forces in the Sept. 30 strikes, thinking that they were responding to enemy fire.


An even more explicit apology was offered by the United States ambassador to Pakistan, Anne W. Patterson. “We extend our deepest apology to Pakistan and the families of the Frontier scouts who were killed and injured” Ms. Patterson said. “Pakistan’s brave security forces are our allies in a war that threatens both Pakistan and the U.S.”


Libertarians continue calling for an end to the war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/world ... tml?src=me
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Re: U.S. Apologizes as Attacks in Pakistan Continue

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 06 Oct 2010, 21:44:40

I was just getting ready to post about this. The oil tanker truck attacks are up to SIX now, the latest being on a convoy of 24 trucks:

QUETTA, Pakistan (AP) - Gunmen torched more than two dozen tankers carrying fuel to NATO troops and killed a driver Wednesday, the sixth attack on convoys taking supplies to Afghanistan since Pakistan closed a key border crossing almost a week ago.

Islamabad shut down the Torkham crossing along the fabled Khyber Pass last Thursday after a NATO helicopter attack in the border area killed three Pakistani troops. The closure has left hundreds of trucks stranded alongside the country's highways and bottlenecked traffic heading to the one route into Afghanistan from the south that has remained open.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20101006/D9IM4OV00.html


It's starting to look like we're at war in Pakistan now too. :|

One thing is for sure.. I'm really glad I'm not a truck driver for Haliburton right now.
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Re: U.S. Apologizes as Attacks in Pakistan Continue

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 06 Oct 2010, 21:48:59

Sixstrings wrote:It's starting to look like we're at war in Pakistan now too. :|



I just don't know WTF the Commander in Chief is thinking. :(
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Re: U.S. Apologizes as Attacks in Pakistan Continue

Unread postby efarmer » Wed 06 Oct 2010, 21:57:35

http://www.longwarjournal.org

It seems that all out drone assaults are being launched against al Qaeda and Taliban command and training in the Pak tribal regions.

It could be the end game before a truce is reached or something far more ominous.
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Re: U.S. Apologizes as Attacks in Pakistan Continue

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 06 Oct 2010, 22:27:55

efarmer wrote:http://www.longwarjournal.org

It seems that all out drone assaults are being launched against al Qaeda and Taliban command and training in the Pak tribal regions.

It could be the end game before a truce is reached or something far more ominous.


And here's another question.. is it morally acceptable to wipe out innocent villagers with robotic drones just to get the few last Taliban? What if we found some Taliban in Canada, would it be okay to strafe Ottawa with drones?
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Re: U.S. Apologizes as Attacks in Pakistan Continue

Unread postby Kristen » Wed 06 Oct 2010, 22:47:35

Wow, an apology! That's a first.
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Re: U.S. Apologizes as Attacks in Pakistan Continue

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 06 Oct 2010, 23:35:19

Sixstrings wrote:
efarmer wrote:http://www.longwarjournal.org

It seems that all out drone assaults are being launched against al Qaeda and Taliban command and training in the Pak tribal regions.

It could be the end game before a truce is reached or something far more ominous.


And here's another question.. is it morally acceptable to wipe out innocent villagers with robotic drones just to get the few last Taliban? What if we found some Taliban in Canada, would it be okay to strafe Ottawa with drones?


We should strafe Ottawa even if there aren't any Taliban. 8)

But seriously, the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan is virtually non-existent. The central government of Pakistan has little to no control over this border region. If the Taliban does not respect the borders, why should we?

All of this assumes, of course, that our bombing raids are having a measurable impact on the strength of the Taliban/Al Qaeda/Bad Guys In General.

The evidence for this assumption seems a bit lacking. I feel like we just keep on chopping the heads off of a Hydra.
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