[theluckycountry]

I have no time for obfuscation, or speeches, just the facts please, the Energy (not money) it takes

...But as an example, I included some overview data for steel from worldsteel below.

Thank you, now we're getting somewhere. I ran the numbers,

On average, 20 GJ of energy is consumed per tonne of crude steel produced globally

each new MW of wind power requires *120 to 180 tons of steel.

Say 150 tons, that's 3000 GJ needed for the steel per MW wind plant.
For a 1 MW nameplate capacity offshore wind, the average joules per minute will be in the range of 24 to 30 MJ/minute. I calculate this to be a 70 day period at max output to generate the 3000GJ for the steel required to build it. So it seems you are correct in your assertions as to the efficacy of Wind power to cover the costs of construction and give a massive return on investment. Again, thank you for your efforts.


https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/27/ho ... e-make-it/

[Newfie]

Orsted’s troubles are the latest in a series of struggles for the wind-power industry, just as countries around the world demand more of the clean energy technology. Rising supply chain costs have clouded the outlook for some developers’ revenue, with others facing turmoil from critical mechanical issues.

https://gcaptain.com/orsted-shares-plun ... portfolio/

auction of offshore wind development rights in the Gulf of Mexico ended with a single $5.6 million winning bid on Tuesday, reflecting meager demand for the clean energy source in a region known for oil and gas production.

Germany’s RWE won rights to 102,480 acres (41,472 hectares) off Louisiana for $5.6 million, while the other two lease areas on offer off Texas received no bids, according to results posted on the U.S. Bureau of Ocean Energy Management web site.

https://gcaptain.com/first-offshore-win ... -interest/

[theluckycountry]

Look at the scale of this stuff



Has any of it been through a hurricane yet?

Turbulent Times For Biden's Offshore Wind Farms
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... #xj4y7vzkg

Or if you don't have a bloomberg account
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/turbu ... jects-real

[Newfie]

Saw a destroyed wind farm in Puerto Rico.

Current hurricane Lee may opens some eyes. Unlikely.

[theluckycountry]

New York rejects Orsted, Equinor, BP requests to charge more for offshore wind

Someone made a mistake in the cost calculations for offshore wind power.

October 13, 2023 https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/ ... 023-10-12/

New York regulators on Thursday denied requests by European energy firms Orsted (ORSTED.CO), Equinor (EQNR.OL), BP (BP.L) and other renewable developers to charge customers billions of dollars more under future power sale contracts.

The state denial could force some developers whose contracts may not cover project costs to scrap plans to sell power to customers in New York, cancel or delay projects, as happened with a couple of offshore wind projects in Massachusetts. Developers were looking to renegotiate contracts on four offshore wind and 86 land-based renewable projects...

The New York Public Service Commission said amending contracts would have resulted in increases of as much as 6.7% for residential customers' monthly bills. New Yorkers already pay some of the highest rates for electricity in the country, according to federal energy data.

Wind power generation is a good idea, much better than digging up coal to feed a conventional power station. But then you have to dig up coal to forge the steel that goes into making them, to refine the copper, etc etc etc. They are looking like more and more like the EV. A great transition totally dependent on coal and oil and more expensive than what they are to replace.

After all these years you would think someone would have made a Renewable powered mine or foundry, since the tech is so cheap, but the simple fact they haven't proves it's not practical. There is a lot you can do with electricity, but there is a lot you cannot.

[kublikhan]

After all these years you would think someone would have made a Renewable powered mine or foundry, since the tech is so cheap, but the simple fact they haven't proves it's not practical. There is a lot you can do with electricity, but there is a lot you cannot.

The power and transportation sectors are not the only sectors starting a transition to renewable energy. Many other sectors, including mining, are also transitioning.

Yes, renewable energy is suitable for mining companies and they have been proving it for over a decade. For example, in 2011, Barrick Gold [ABX-TSX], a leader in alternative energy for mines, completed its $50 million Punta Colorada wind operation, making it the first wind farm built by a mining company in Chile. It supplies energy to the Chilean power grid. The Zaldívar copper mine in Chile will be the country’s first mine to operate with 100% renewable electricity. The mine, a joint venture between Antofagasta and Barrick, recently signed a contract Colbun S.A. to supply Zaldívar electricity derived from hydro, solar, or wind sources for 10 years starting in July 2020. That is enough power to replace greenhouse gas emissions equivalent to 350,000 tonnes per year, or about 87,000 vehicles per year.

In Western Australia, South African miner Goldfields is transitioning to renewable power for off-grid mining operations at its Agnew gold mine. The Agnew Hybrid Renewable Project is Australia’s largest hybrid renewable energy microgrid and the first to utilize wind generation at a mine site. It’s worth noting that the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, an independent agency of the Australian federal government established in 2012 to manage Australia’s renewable energy programs, has committed almost $1.2 billion towards more than 370 projects.

In Ghana, West Africa, in September 2018, UK-based solar company Cambridge Energy Partners (CEP) announced that Newmont Mining had deployed CEP’s Nomad mobile solar power array at its Akyem gold mine.

In a recent report, consultancy firm THEnergy stated that in 2019 there was an increasing number of mining companies committing to developing renewable energy at their mines. The report stated that “The year 2019 has been identified as the tipping point. The business case for partly substituting expensive fuel like diesel, heavy fuel oil (HFO) or gas by solar and wind had been positive on paper for years. However, actual projects have evolved slowly.” During 2019, nearly a dozen new projects were announced and others were under development.

At the 7th Energy and Mines World Congress in Toronto in December where some 100 miners met to discuss topics related to sustainable and environmentally-friendly solutions to their power needs, most mining companies said they are willing to decarbonize and pursue initiatives that go well beyond renewables, such as electrification of mining vehicles. Regarding electric mining vehicles, Caterpillar has over 250 patents in the electric drive and energy storage fields with products like the D7E dozer, F-Series Asphalt Pavers, 794 AC and 795F AC large mining trucks, the recently introduced 988K XE wheel loader, and integrated electric drive train technology and components for underground machines. Renewable energy for miners is no longer a concept – it is here to stay.

Mining companies successfully switching to renewable energy

One of the unintended side effects of Russia's invasion of Ukraine is it's helping drive an accelerated transition to renewable energy solutions in Australia's vast resources sector. Diesel prices are close to record highs in Australian dollar terms, and unlikely to ease soon given shortages of the transport fuel created by Europe's decision to move away from Russian supplies as part of efforts to punish Moscow for its Feb. 24 attack on its neighbour. Diesel has been the dominant source of power for Australia's mines, which are often located in remote areas and not connected to major power grids. Australia is the world's largest exporter of iron ore, lithium, gold and coking coal, ranks second in thermal coal, fifth in copper and is also a major shipper of nickel and alumina, the base material for aluminium.

It used to be that switching mine sites from diesel to renewable energy solutions was a process largely driven by the increasing need to be seen to be doing something to reach the goal of net-zero carbon emissions, with many mining companies having a target of achieving this by 2050. But at the IMARC conference in Sydney this week, it was increasingly clear that one of the main drivers for switching to clean energy solutions was their relative cost effectiveness when compared to fossil fuels such as diesel or natural gas.

What mining companies are realising is that there is a rare opportunity to score wins on multiple fronts by moving to renewable energy solutions, such as solar, wind and battery back up. Firstly is the cost advantage, with renewable power solutions cheaper over the longer term than fossil fuels. Renewable energy also provides a more fixed cost than fossil fuels, which can suffer from periods of high and sustained volatility, such as the world is currently experiencing.

Secondly, there is the reduction in carbon emissions from mining, which does help companies reach net-zero goals. There are also other benefits in embracing renewable technologies. One example is the reduced need for ventilation in underground mines if the vehicles used to extract ore are battery powered, rather than using diesel engines. The other benefits include an ability to argue that the industry is moving beyond greenwashing and is actually achieving emission reductions.

Harman also said that his company's experience is that the pace of switching to renewables is accelerating, and it's possible that most mines in Australia could be using mainly renewable power within five years, well ahead of those 2050 targets.

Miners are embracing renewables both for cost and image

Australian resources giant Fortescue Metals Group - one of the world’s largest iron ore producers - has outlined a $6 billion plan to switch to renewable energy by 2030. The plan by Fortescue is to eliminate fossil fuel use from its operations and reduce its emissions to zero by 2030.

There will be massive investment in the generation of renewable sources of energy to power its mining enterprise, including the electrification of the railway that transports its iron ore. The miner intends to ditch key fossil fuel-related operations such as diesel and gas in favor of wind and solar to hit “real zero” emissions. The ambitious project would make Fortescue the first heavy industry of its size in the world to switch to green energy by 2030.

Fortescue said in 2020 it would move towards decarbonizing its mining operations. Other major resources companies, including Rio Tinto, are also investing in wind and solar projects to power their iron ore mines in Western Australia. Tristan Edis, the director of analysis and advisory of Green Energy Markets, a research and consultancy company, says Fortescue’s plan will set the standard. “Where this is probably the next advancement is that they are talking about re-powering absolutely everything; the trucks, the rail, not just their standard electricity supplies," Edis said. "That is really where this is quite extraordinary.”

Australian Resources Giant Pledges Shift To Green Energy

The steel industry is responsible for 8 % of the CO2 emissions caused by mankind worldwide. For this reason urgent action is needed to initiate a decarbonisation process which also has the potential to be a massive economic opportunity. It is important to remember that this is one of the most polluting and energy-hungry industries on the planet.

Decarbonising steel
Two of the most promising processes revolve around renewable electricity. In Europe, there are already several projects — Hybrit and H2 Greensteel, for example — that aim to replace fossil fuels with green hydrogen, while in the United States, Boston Metal, a company that emerged from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), is developing direct electrolysis from iron ore, a process similar to that currently used for aluminium. In both cases, the electricity used would be from renewable sources, ensuring sustainability and no emissions during the process.

Green steel: a material ready for industrial decarbonisation and widening the horizons of electrification

Cleantech Solar has entered into a long-term rooftop solar power partnership with semiconductor manufacturer Global Foundries (GF) to deploy a 4.5 MWp rooftop solar system on site at GF’s Woodland’s facility. GF will benefit from on-site solar energy generated from the PV system at a pre-agreed tariff structure over the next 25 years, enabling the company to make a significant contribution towards reduced emissions, without having to invest its own capital in the system, but also without having to distract resources from its core business of delivering market-leading semiconductor solutions.

Cleantech Solar to deploy large-scale solar system in Singapore

[theluckycountry]

Diesel has been the dominant source of power for Australia's mines, which are often located in remote areas and not connected to major power grids.

Well it makes sense to use wind or solar plants to electrify mineral processing plant and accommodation facilities at remote mines far from conventional power stations. But that's only a fraction of the energy used on site compared to the earth movers that actually mine it and the transporters that get the product from the remote area to market. It's all dug out on diesel machinery, transported away on diesel trucks and diesel trains. And forget electric drag-lines. They are a niche application and only suitable at certain mines with flat terrain and softer earth. They are no use in hardrock mining.

What you have posted kub is what we call "Green Washing" Superficial blurb that gives the impression, to people who have no idea what goes on at a mine, that mines are going 100% renewable. Nothing could be further from the truth. None of those articles mention What the electricity was being used for. And for good reason, it would open up too many questions.

So ignoring the powering of the worker's dongas and the electric motors for the grinding and pumping of ore, you need Earth Moving machinery, and lots of it. That means lots of diesel. Mining without diesel is a myth, as is farming with diesel, as is making new steel from the ore in the earth. Just look at the energy used to make steel from ore!

Can electric arc furnaces use iron ore?
Blast furnaces can melt raw iron ore as well as recycled metal, while electric arc furnaces only melt recycled or scrap metal.

https://www.servicesteel.org/resources/ ... st-furnace

So you can't use electricity to make steel from ore, you need fossil fuels! And even smelting recycled steel is hellishly energy intensive using an arc furnace, that's why they use coal fired plants that can output a constant current cheaply and not go offline when the wind drops. What do you think happens to an arc furnace when the power drops? Why the steel solidifies in the pot of course! And good luck remelting it when it's one big solid mass. The world runs on steel, we all know that. You wouldn't have a single windmill without it and we need more and more every year so we need to dig up iron ore, and use coal to smelt it.

Those that think we can replace coal oil and Gas in the world's mining and manufacturing sectors with windmills are simply not thinking deep enough. Then we have all the farming usage, (fertilizer and pesticides from windmills?) then the pharmacological products, and the massive military uses. Electric fighter jets? Electric tanks? Even the modern drones are powered by gasoline and diesel, batteries simply don't give them the range, the airborne time.

So yes, you can build an electric car and power it off a windmill, and you can power the lights and the fridges on a mine site with them too. Providing you have an underlying fossil fuel economy to support their construction.

[kublikhan]

Well it makes sense to use wind or solar plants to electrify mineral processing plant and accommodation facilities at remote mines far from conventional power stations. But that's only a fraction of the energy used on site compared to the earth movers that actually mine it and the transporters that get the product from the remote area to market. It's all dug out on diesel machinery, transported away on diesel trucks and diesel trains. And forget electric drag-lines. They are a niche application and only suitable at certain mines with flat terrain and softer earth. They are no use in hardrock mining.

What you have posted kub is what we call "Green Washing" Superficial blurb that gives the impression, to people who have no idea what goes on at a mine, that mines are going 100% renewable. Nothing could be further from the truth. None of those articles mention What the electricity was being used for. And for good reason, it would open up too many questions.

So ignoring the powering of the worker's dongas and the electric motors for the grinding and pumping of ore, you need Earth Moving machinery, and lots of it. That means lots of diesel. Mining without diesel is a myth, as is farming with diesel, as is making new steel from the ore in the earth. Just look at the energy used to make steel from ore!

You must have only skimmed what I posted because it directly contradicts what you just said. They are not only using renewable energy for extracting the ore, but for everything, including moving it on trucks and trains:

There will be massive investment in the generation of renewable sources of energy to power its mining enterprise, including the electrification of the railway that transports its iron ore. The miner intends to ditch key fossil fuel-related operations such as diesel and gas in favor of wind and solar to hit “real zero” emissions.

Where this is probably the next advancement is that they are talking about re-powering absolutely everything; the trucks, the rail, not just their standard electricity supplies," Edis said. "That is really where this is quite extraordinary.”

Australian Resources Giant Pledges Shift To Green Energy

Most mining companies said they are willing to decarbonize and pursue initiatives that go well beyond renewables, such as electrification of mining vehicles. Regarding electric mining vehicles, Caterpillar has over 250 patents in the electric drive and energy storage fields with products like the D7E dozer, F-Series Asphalt Pavers, 794 AC and 795F AC large mining trucks, the recently introduced 988K XE wheel loader, and integrated electric drive train technology and components for underground machines. Renewable energy for miners is no longer a concept – it is here to stay.

Mining companies successfully switching to renewable energy

So you can't use electricity to make steel from ore, you need fossil fuels!

That is why they are developing new technologies to decarbonize steel making, because solar and wind alone won't cut it. One of these new technologies being developed is the direct electrolysis from iron ore, similar to what is already being done with aluminium. Another option being explored is using green hydrogen(hydrogen produced from renewable energy) in place of fossil fuels.

We’ve developed an electrolysis process that eliminates the need for coal in steel production. An electro-chemical process, electrolysis uses direct electric current to separate chemical compounds into their constituent parts. Our Molten Oxide Electrolysis (MOE) technology provides the most direct, scalable solution to make green steel. In the cell, an inert anode is immersed in an electrolyte containing iron ore and then it’s electrified. When the cell heats to 1600C, the electrons split the bonds in the iron oxide in the ore. The result is a clean, high purity liquid metal that can be sent directly to ladle metallurgy — no reheating required. Our MOE platform works with all iron ore grades and does not require process water, hazardous chemicals, or rare-metal catalysts to operate.

MOE converts even low- and mid-grade iron ore fines directly into high-purity molten iron. This enables the broadest possible supply of feedstock and protects against the price volatility of premium ores. Our simplified process eliminates the need for coke production, iron ore processing, blast furnace reduction, and basic oxygen furnace refinement.

Green Steel Solution - Boston Metal

With HYBRIT® technology, SSAB aims to be the first steel company in the world to bring fossil-free steel to the market already in 2026 and largely eliminate carbon dioxide emissions from our own operations in around 2030. Together with our partners and customers, SSAB aims to create a fossil-free value chain, from the mine to the end-product.

How SSAB replaces CO2 emissions with water
For thousands of years, steel has been made using coal to remove oxygen from iron ore, emitting vast amounts of CO2 in the process. But now, SSAB is set to revolutionize the industry with HYBRIT® technology, using hydrogen instead of coal in the ore reduction process, and emitting water instead of CO2.

Using HYBRIT® technology, SSAB aims to replace coking coal, traditionally needed for ore-based steelmaking, with fossil-free electricity and hydrogen. The result will be the world’s first fossil-free steelmaking technology, with virtually no carbon footprint.

HYBRIT® – A new revolutionary steelmaking technology - SSAB

[theluckycountry]

This is taken from a peakoil topic referenced below.
Steel, quality structural steel is the key to modern industry. The nub of the topic is that due to copper contamination all the recycled steel will be useless by 2050 and new steel will have to made from virgin iron ore, using fossil fuels. This may sound like bad news, but that depends of which country you live in.

Steel recycling is unsustainable
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.7b00997#
Steel is the world’s most recycled material, with end-of-life recovery rate estimates as high as 90%. (1) Making steel from scrap in an Electric Arc Furnace (EAF) leads to around one-third the greenhouse gas emissions associated with steelmaking from ore. (2) As steel production accounts for approximately 25% of industrial emissions, (3) further reliance on recycling to supply demanded products is key to climate change mitigation. (4)

Oda et al. (5) show that steel recycling has historically been constrained by the availability of scrap. Using a dynamic stock model, Pauliuk et al. (6) find that by 2050 the global supply of end-of-life scrap will triple from current volumes. From this expanding volume of scrap, Allwood (7) argues that all projected future growth in demand for steel could be met by recycling, but it is unknown whether the secondary route can supply the demanded quality requirements.

End-of-life steel scrap is often contaminated with other metals. If these cannot be extracted from the EAF melt, then they are known as “tramp elements.” Nakajima et al. (8) identify the key tramp elements in steel recycling by thermodynamic analysis, of which copper and tin are most important. Concentrations of copper over 0.1 wt % cause hot shortness, a phenomenon leading to surface cracking in hot rolling and forming. Tin exacerbates hot shortness, even at concentrations as low as 0.04 wt %. Rod et al. (9) review the mechanism of hot shortness, which is now well understood.

Copper is pervasive in end-of-life scrap, originating mostly from copper wires and motors in automobiles, appliances, and machinery that attach to steel during shredding. (10) Tin contamination originates from packaging tinplate, which makes up a much smaller (<1%) portion of the scrap stream, (11) and can be isolated and treated more readily prior to melting. The focus of this paper is therefore on copper, as it is currently the main barrier to producing high quality steel from recycled scrap.

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=78061&p=1473386&view=show#p1473386

[theluckycountry]

You must have only skimmed what I posted because it directly contradicts what you just said.

Ok... Lets go a bit deeper shall we.

The power and transportation sectors are not the only sectors starting a transition to renewable energy. Many other sectors, including mining, are also transitioning.

Yes, like I said, remote sites are going wind and solar for dongas and fridges, but what of this list of yours.

most mining companies said they are willing to decarbonize and pursue initiatives that go well beyond renewables, such as electrification of mining vehicles. Caterpillar has over 250 patents in the electric drive and energy storage fields with products like the D7E dozer, F-Series Asphalt Pavers, 794 AC and 795F AC large mining trucks, the recently introduced 988K XE wheel loader

Well lets dispense with the patents, patents are just a what if at this stage. Lets move on to Cat's Electric menu shall we.

... with products like the D7E dozer

Yes, the world's first diesel-electric hybrid bulldozer. Comes with a 235-horsepower Cat C9.3 diesel that drives a generator to produce electricity that runs to a power module. WOW! Totally like those trains we have been using for 70 years.
https://www.enr.com/articles/9256-cat-r ... ?v=preview

F-Series Asphalt Pavers

Cat F Series Asphalt Pavers
Well this one is pure diesel. 225-hp (diesel) with Eco Mode and Automatic Engine Speed Control delivers power when needed. Caterpillar doubled generator power on board its new AP1055F tracked and AP1000F wheeled asphalt pavers to 70 kw to heat the standard 8-ft. screed from 40 deg. F. to 265-deg.-F. operating temperature in 15 minutes. Previous models burned more than twice as much fuel in the 45 minutes needed to do the same thing. So Diesel to produce electricity to heat tar basically. Talk about Green Washing! https://www.forconstructionpros.com/asp ... t/12017712

Cat 794 AC and 795F AC large mining trucks

??? The first thing I saw were the massive air cleaners under the front, just above what looks suspiciously like a big diesel engine, the thing behind the radiator... Yes, another HYBRID diesel electric. AC Drive System: Generator/Alternator brushless, engine mounted, dual bearing. Sorry, no batteries, just the alternator attached to a kickass diesel engine. All these big vehicles run this way now, much more efficient than using automatic transmissions, or God forbid, a clutch and gearbox! Yet this is somehow an Electric Vehicle? https://www.empire-cat.com/equipment/ne ... cks/796-ac

the recently introduced 988K XE wheel loader...an underground machine

The key word here is Underground, like in, no exhaust emissions allowed. Running this probably costs them a fortune, must be mining gold![/quote]

That's enough thanks kub. No more please, I'm off for a bike ride.

[ralfy]

There's also peak mining. That means any transition will have to deal with switching to lower energy returns plus achieve increasing production (because industries are mostly for-profit) plus deal with diminishing returns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFyTSiCXWEE

[kublikhan]

This is taken from a peakoil topic referenced below.
Steel, quality structural steel is the key to modern industry. The nub of the topic is that due to copper contamination all the recycled steel will be useless by 2050 and new steel will have to made from virgin iron ore, using fossil fuels. This may sound like bad news, but that depends of which country you live in.

The new processes I mentioned above are for producing virgin steel, fossil fuel free.

There are methods to reduce copper contamination in scrap steel. However these methods tend to be difficult, expensive, and/or energy intensive so they are not used much now. However a combination of factors will make such methods more likely in the future including: growing steel demand, falling iron ore quality and quantity, increasing copper contamination, and environmental pressures.

Sorry, no batteries, just the alternator attached to a kickass diesel engine. All these big vehicles run this way now, much more efficient than using automatic transmissions, or God forbid, a clutch and gearbox! Yet this is somehow an Electric Vehicle?

Oh I forgot, you have this strange aversion to anything hybrid. Ok if you want to only look at BEV equipment we can do that. And yes, some of it is for underground. FYI, diesel equipment is used in underground mining as well. However they have to invest millions in ventilation to make it work and even then the air pollution is nasty. That's one of the reasons underground mine companies are transitioning to more EV vehicles and equipment.

“Each year, our Australian operations use roughly 1,500 [million] liters of diesel in over 1,000 pieces of equipment. Over half of this is used in our truck fleets. Electrification is the preferred pathway to eliminate this diesel,” said Anna Wiley, BHP’s vice president for Australian planning and technical functions. Cost savings for electric mining trucks are also higher than initially estimated.

Battery-Electric Mining Trucks
The preference for electric vehicles by BHP, Rio Tinto, and Fortescue does not mean the EV revolution in heavy equipment is complete, however. For one thing, the availability of battery-powered ultra-heavy trucks is an issue. Manufacturers are in the early stages of getting such vehicles into production.

Things are moving forward in the heavy truck industry, however. As CleanTechnica reported earlier this year, Nouveau Monde Graphite and Caterpillar have signed definitive agreements to provide a zero emission fleet of electric mining trucks to support operations at NMG’s Matawinie Mine. Volvo is also providing battery-electric mining equipment to Boliden, a Swedish mining company for its fleet of underground mining equipment.

In addition, the companies will need to expand their electric vehicle infrastructure to support an increase in the use of battery-powered machinery. BHP has already contracted for 1.2 GW of renewable energy, but may need up to four times that amount to meet its future electrical needs as it adds battery-electric equipment.

“There would be some downsides to offset this comparable efficiency advantage from electrification, such as how we resolve long term storage and constraints to mining operations due to power infrastructure,” Wiley said. “However, our view is that an electrified mining fleet is more economic and more achievable than the alternative fuel sources.”

BHP is developing what may become the world’s largest potash mine in Saskatchewan, Canada, and plans for 80% of the underground mining vehicles at that facility to be battery-electric.

Australian Mining Companies Chose Battery-Electric Over Hydrogen Fuel Cell Mining Trucks

While you may notice more electric vehicles on the road today than ever before, the technology is now making its way to miners, the companies extracting the critical minerals needed to build EVs, ensure adequate global food supply, etc.

Snow Lake Lithium outlined its plans in February to develop the world’s first all-electric lithium mine, one of the most critical minerals used to build EV batteries. The mining company’s CEO said at the time if you are going to mine for these resources that will be used to protect the environment, then obtaining them must also be done in a sustainable matter. The company is working with Meglab, an electrical equipment provider and mining solutions company, to make the dream a reality.

Miners using electric vehicles can significantly reduce the heat and carbon exposure they typically experience with diesel-powered equipment. Furthermore, EV mining technology can cost less as it requires less ventilation and cooling.

Miners are cutting CO2 emissions in half by switching to electric vehicles for extracting critical minerals

Mining industry has long been powered by diesel, but that’s changing.
Canadian mining companies are starting to cast aside the diesel-powered trucks, loaders, and drills that have long-been the backbone of the industry for electric alternatives — a move that some industry experts say could make mining safer and less polluting. Mario Santos, mining director for Unifor, Canada's largest private sector trade union representing 9,900 mining and smelting workers, said he welcomes the shift. "I think it's a positive change. It's better than the processes we were using before," he told CBC News. For workers who spend their days operating heavy-duty machinery deep beneath the earth's surface, this switch would clean up the diesel-filled air they breathe day-in and day-out. Electric equipment has been slowly trickling into mines for over a decade.

North American mines started testing out heavy-duty electric equipment — mainly vehicles attached to electric trolley lines — in the 1990s. But, Canada was one of the first countries to introduce battery-powered electric vehicles to mining in 2012. Now, after nearly a decade of use, the technology is proving its worth and hesitancy is dissipating, said Rakochy. He's seeing more mines interested in going electric. "We will have more mines coming on stream with battery-electric vehicle technology almost monthly now as we go through the years."

Two recent Sudbury, Ont., mining projects have gone the route of full electrification, and other mines in Saskatchewan, British Columbia and Quebec are in various stages of implementing electric equipment.

Most mines use complex ventilation systems — that can cost anywhere from $20 million to $400 million to install, and often require millions more per year to maintain — to regulate diesel emissions levels underground, said UBC's Madiseh. "Diesel particulate matter — DPMs — are a huge concern, and the main reason you have ventilation in a mine is to dilute the diesel emissions," By contrast, electric equipment doesn't produce fumes, which means companies don't have to spend as much on expensive ventilation. For Rakochy, the difference in air quality between mines that use diesel equipment and those that have electrified is stark. "This will be a bit crude, but you generally will get up and you'll blow your nose. When you blow your nose, your Kleenex will be full of black soot," Rakochy said. "You know that stuff has definitely gone into your nose and into your lungs. With battery-electric vehicle equipment, there's absolutely zero of that."

Is the future of mining electric? As mines transition equipment, new risks emerge

Epiroc has won a large order from Glencore in Canada for battery-electric equipment and automation solutions that will be used at what will be one of the world’s first all-electric mines. Glencore’s Sudbury Integrated Nickel Operations has ordered a full fleet of battery-electric equipment for use at the Onaping Depth Project in Ontario, Canada. The nickel and copper mine is located below the existing Craig mine and is being developed to start production in 2024. “Glencore is taking a major leap forward in the mining industry by going all-electric with its Onaping Depth Project. We are excited to collaborate with Glencore and deliver battery-electric vehicles and automation features on their journey to build a mine of the future.”

Traditionally, mining machines are diesel powered, though more and more mining companies are adding battery-electric machines to their fleets. The benefits with battery electrification are significant, including eliminating emissions in operations, reducing noise pollution, and lowering costs by lessening the need for ventilation and cooling when required; this is especially important as underground mines keep getting deeper. The 23 machines ordered include Scooptram loaders, Minetruck haulers, Boomer face drilling rigs, Boltec and Cabletec rock reinforcement rigs, and Simba production drilling rigs.

Epiroc wins equipment order for new all-electric mine in Canada

At the Borden Gold project near Chapleau in Ontario, Newmont has replaced all of its underground diesel fleet of trucks with Battery Electric Vehicles, making it one of the first all-electric underground mines in Canada. This ambitious plan will not only make the future mine more operationally efficient, but it will improve its health and safety performance and reduce its environmental footprint. Newmont teamed up with Sandvik Mining and MacLean Engineering to provide the battery-powered vehicles for almost all of the mine’s requirements. The new technology will range from battery-operated drilling and blasting equipment, to electric bolters, personnel carriers and, ultimately, a 40-metric-tonne battery-powered haul truck. This will eliminate all GHG emissions associated with the movement of ore and waste rock.

Newmont’s All-Electric Borden Mine

[theluckycountry]

Oh I forgot, you have this strange aversion to anything hybrid. Ok if you want to only look at BEV equipment we can do that.

No! I've wasted enough time on this BS. And don't try to spin all that mining equipment as Hybrid either, Cat is just using that word to greenwash it's products. We all know what a hybrid is, it has both an oil powered engine and a battery electric component, a gimmick basically, an inner city yuppies car. All that gear you referenced is powered by Diesel engines period! Just like diesel electric trains. The use the electric component, as I pointed out, is just to stabilize the drive train.

I don't care what your links claim as EV mining equipment, I have waded through enough falsehood, it will be greenwash or niche mining plant and nothing substantial. All mining of consequence uses diesel equipment and will continue to. Your promotions of a renewable "Everything" have sailed I am afraid. All that is left is marketing by corporations trying to cash in on the Green dollar.

[theluckycountry]

There's also peak mining. That means any transition will have to deal with switching to lower energy returns plus achieve increasing production (because industries are mostly for-profit) plus deal with diminishing returns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFyTSiCXWEE

Good point. All the low hanging fruit has been picked, at least outside of Russia, Australia and a few african nations. Location location location will matter in the future. If you secure a mine in a country that still has abundant resources you will turn a profit. At least until oil scarcity really kicks in.

[theluckycountry]

It's all bad news, all the truth is finally coming out as it always does eventually. You have two camps basically. The companies trying to sell the shit (Always good news). And the realists telling it how it is.

From GE to Siemens, the wind energy industry hopes billions in losses are about to end
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/17/from-ge ... o-end.html

Why wind and solar power are running out of juice
https://nypost.com/2023/09/02/why-the-p ... o-deliver/

Analysis: Wind power industry drifts off course
https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/ ... 023-09-28/





The Inadequacy of Wind Power
https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads ... energy.pdf

The plan dramatically to cut the combustion of fossil fuels was
accepted at the 2015 Paris Conference. The instinctive
reaction around the world has been to revert to ‘renewables’, the
sources of energy delivered intermittently by the power of
the Sun. Unfortunately this power, attenuated by the huge
distance that it must travel to reach the Earth, is extremely
weak. That is why, before the advent of the Industrial Revolution,
it was unable to provide the energy to sustain even a
small global population with an acceptable standard of living.

Today, modern technology is deployed to harvest these
weak sources of energy. Vast ‘farms’ that monopolise the
natural environment are built, to the detriment of other creatures.
Developments are made regardless of the damage wrought.
Hydro-electric schemes, enormous turbines and square miles
of solar panels are constructed, despite being unreliable and
ineffective; even unnecessary...

In particular, the generation of electricity by wind tells a
disappointing story. The political enthusiasm and the investor
hype are not supported by the evidence, even for offshore
wind, which can be deployed out of sight of the infamous My
Back Yard. What does such evidence actually say?

That the wind fluctuates is common knowledge. But
these fluctuations are grossly magnified to an extent that is
not immediately obvious and has nothing to do with the
technology of the wind turbine. The energy of the wind is that
of the moving air, and, as every student knows, such energy...

[mousepad]

That the wind fluctuates is common knowledge. But
these fluctuations are grossly magnified to an extent that is
not immediately obvious...

Yes. I don't think renewables will be able to support the 24/7 power on-demand life we are living now. Life will become more like planning your activities around availability of power. Wind is going strong tonite? Sweet, let's watch some TV.

[kublikhan]

No! I've wasted enough time on this BS. And don't try to spin all that mining equipment as Hybrid either, Cat is just using that word to greenwash it's products. We all know what a hybrid is, it has both an oil powered engine and a battery electric component, a gimmick basically, an inner city yuppies car. All that gear you referenced is powered by Diesel engines period! Just like diesel electric trains. The use the electric component, as I pointed out, is just to stabilize the drive train.

I don't care what your links claim as EV mining equipment, I have waded through enough falsehood, it will be greenwash or niche mining plant and nothing substantial. All mining of consequence uses diesel equipment and will continue to. Your promotions of a renewable "Everything" have sailed I am afraid. All that is left is marketing by corporations trying to cash in on the Green dollar.

When you were "digging a little deeper", that was just a list of vehicles Cat made that had an EV drivetrain, to show they have experience making EV drivetrains. If you look at the vehicles being ordered by companies that were mentioned in the articles, they are battery powered, not diesel powered. No greenwashing. No falsehoods. No BS. BEV powered:

Fortescue is testing a 240-tonne payload battery-electric haul truck developed in collaboration with German-Swiss multinational equipment manufacturer Liebherr as part of the miner’s decarbonisation strategy, which includes replacing its existing diesel-fuelled fleet with battery electric and green hydrogen powered haul trucks before 2030.

Fortescue powers ahead with battery-electric truck testing

BHP has unveiled plans to replace its fleet of diesel trucks with electric trucks.

On operating costs, BHP says electric wins
“Our initial modeling suggests the cost [of electric] will be the same or less to operate compared to diesel,” said Wiley. “As we transition from diesel to electricity, we will spend less on carbon exposure, but we will need to spend more on electricity. However we expect the cost will be less overall given the efficiency of the battery electric trucks and the expected energy price differential.” With battery technology developing rapidly, it’s no wonder the mining industry wants to get in on the massive costs savings that come with going all-electric.

BHP says battery electric cheaper than hydrogen as it dumps diesel for haul trucks

The internal combustion engine, although it was the primary driver of industrial progress for two centuries, will likely be phased out entirely over the next few decades. We’re working on several projects that will electrify the mobile fleet at our Pilbara operations – including haul trucks, mobile equipment and rail operations – by replacing existing diesel fleets with battery and other technologies.

New tech for renewable transport

Canada was one of the first countries to introduce battery-powered electric vehicles to mining in 2012. Now, after nearly a decade of use, the technology is proving its worth and hesitancy is dissipating, said Rakochy. He's seeing more mines interested in going electric. "We will have more mines coming on stream with battery-electric vehicle technology almost monthly now as we go through the years."

Is the future of mining electric?

Traditionally, mining machines are diesel powered, though more and more mining companies are adding battery-electric machines to their fleets. The benefits with battery electrification are significant, including eliminating emissions in operations, reducing noise pollution, and lowering costs by lessening the need for ventilation and cooling when required; this is especially important as underground mines keep getting deeper. The 23 machines ordered include Scooptram loaders, Minetruck haulers, Boomer face drilling rigs, Boltec and Cabletec rock reinforcement rigs, and Simba production drilling rigs.

Epiroc wins equipment order for new all-electric mine in Canada

[kublikhan]

It's all bad news, all the truth is finally coming out as it always does eventually. You have two camps basically. The companies trying to sell the shit (Always good news). And the realists telling it how it is.

It's true that the wind industry is experiencing numerous issues: supply chain disruptions form COVID and the Ukraine war, higher costs, higher interest rates, cancelled orders, etc. However despite all these issues, 2023 is still on course to be the highest year ever for new wind installations:

2023 should be the very first year to exceed 100 GW of new capacity added globally.

Global Wind Report 2023

Global wind turbine order intake reached new highs in the first half of 2023 with 69.5 gigawatts (GW) of activity, a 12% increase year-over-year. Offshore wind order intake increased 26% year-over-year in the first half to a record 12 GW of activity and 17% of all order capacity. Quarterly, offshore order capacity was up 48% year-over-year, totaling 9.1 GW, also setting a record.

We saw several really big deals officially reach a final investment decision in Q2, including orders of 2,640 MW and 1,176 MW in North America, which helped drive the record numbers and breathe some life into these markets. The fact that these deals became firm during a difficult time for OEM financials and amid the cancellation of several offtake agreements for large projects is both encouraging and significant.

Global wind turbine orders hit a new high at 69.5 GW in the first half of 2023

[theluckycountry]

Yes. I don't think renewables will be able to support the 24/7 power on-demand life we are living now. Life will become more like planning your activities around availability of power. Wind is going strong tonite? Sweet, let's watch some TV.

Ha! Yes, I never though of it in those terms. But let's hope the wind doesn't blow too hard, because then they will have to feather the windmills, or they will spin out of control and tear themselves apart. I could never understand why they didn't incorporate an electromagnetic breaking system into them or a variable pitch system, perhaps they do now? I couldn't care less less though. I long ago lost interest in them and put them in the category of niche products useful for some applications only, and almost in the category of the perceptual motion machines we see pop up from time to time. The latter by the way is how they are marketed, Just put them up and you have free electricity for ever.

[theluckycountry]

Catastrophic Failures: 300 Tonne Wind Turbines Keep On Collapsing in Terrifying Fashion

February 12, 2023
Wind industry spin doctors are struggling to explain away a troubling uptick in catastrophic and terrifying wind turbine collapses. Gravity is not kind to these 300-tonne monsters; hundreds of them have collapsed around the world and the rate of collapses appears to be increasing, over time.

Over the last few years, there have been hundreds of ‘structural failures’ – where either 10-15 tonne blades are shredded or flung in all directions; or their 90-100m towers implode, unceremoniously delivering the 80-100 tonne nacelle to terra firma, with exhilarating effect.

Then there are the hours-long pyrotechnic displays when these things self-immolate; exploding into balls of flame and toxic smoke and sending a shower of molten metal and over 1,000 litres of flaming gear oil, hydraulic fluid (see our post here) and burning plastic composites earthwards. By the way, wind turbine fires are ten times more common than the wind industry and its parasites claim

https://ajmarciniak.wordpress.com/2023/ ... g-fashion/



Wind farms are one of the worst options for providing electricity.
American Thinker https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... dents.html

Perhaps that contaminated recycled steel coming out of China is behind some of this failure?
I know it's all doom and gloom, but ya gotta call a spade a spade or you may as well lock yourself in a basement with a pile of porno tapes and just masturbate your life away.

This website was founded to alert people to the coming crisis of PeakOil, to give them a place where they could discuss their concerns, and to investigate alternatives. After the peak didn't create the havoc predicted many members left, no doubt to go back to their consumptive debt ridden existences. Others stayed on to thrash out the myriad of alternatives that were coming to the fore as solutions. Electric cars to replace oil cars, Solar power, nuclear power, bio fuels. Each one in it's turn has proved to be a red herring (whatever the hell they are?)

Biofuel the first to fall from grace. It was expensive to make and depended on, well oil and natural gas basically. The consequences of pursuing it though were tragic. Whole food markets were dislocated as the corn etc went into these fuels aided by massive government subsidies. We saw the same subsidies cruel the auto industry. At a time when we should have been transitioning to small fuel efficient cars we began building monster EV sports cars. Ridiculous, and always the promise of "We'll get it right soon". But they won't "get it right" because of the rational profit maximizer that dominates corporate planning.

I think as time passed many members of peakoil probably became disillusioned in these obvious failures and they too, moved on. It's a shame because there is much we can do, as a single generation, to take the best of this tech and incorporate it into our lives. The trouble is scale. People expected it all to work on the LARGE scale (Because that is what they were told) but many things just don't scale up well. Home solar is a win, I know from personal experience. So are e-bikes, converted pushbikes that is, not the 200HP electric race bikes idiots are making. This stuff works because it taps into the existing infrastructure and manufacturing bases, home solar without a grid is a dead end money wise, the batteries are the killer. even the ebike is a bit of a loser if you don't use it as a daily commute. Again, the dynamics of battery life verses cost.

I hope in times to come we can get realistic here and turn some of our thoughts to personal solutions that actually work rather than these huge corporate scams we see dominating discussions. After all, these solutions get notice and get uptake, home solar as an example is one winner, at least so far up here in Australia. It won't kill the conventional power plants and grid either, they will always be needed for overnight supply etc. But there will be issues once China ups it's prices, when the world's mining and fossil fuel reserve shortfalls begin to impinge on production. But that could be decades away so there is still time to party on