[rwwff]

The rest of the 'merka. Forget it. You will not be out in slush, ice, and snow. and that is what places have 6 months of the year.

You're talking about that stuff where water gets hard and slippery, like the stuff they make for the penguins at the zoo. Is that the same stuff that comes out of the ice maker?

I think I saw some of that on the road about twenty years ago, wierd stuff. It made little crunchy things on my antenna. What was that?

You could live fifty miles out of Houston and still do fine with a scooter, year round really.

Kinda one of the reasons I couldn't figure out the "best places" threads that keep suggesting all these places that routinely get snowed on.

[nwildmand]

scooters are cool and they will extend our commuting abilitys. they are already picking up in popularity here. being in a low wage state means we get crunched by gas prices a litle more. they are popping up everywhere. my friend has an electric shwinn that is a blast. i told him ill help him replace the battery with golf cart batteries when they go out. there is a guy in town who is putting chainsaw motors on regular bicycles. quick dirty and loud but we will see this more and more in the future. a quiet little town down the highway seems to have embraced the scooter as almost a status symbol -no lie- i must have seen 30 different scooters in a town no bigger than 7000. i get a real kick when i see a fatass with 6 inch of fat hanging below the seat, always cracks me up.

they are cool and will help commuters do thier dirty deeds longer but that doesnt solve all the problems. the trucking industry cannot be fixed. everything will still get super expensive.

Kinda one of the reasons I couldn't figure out the "best places" threads that keep suggesting all these places that routinely get snowed on.

well it keeps the population lower and it makes it difficult for the zombies to get anywhere. i consider the bitter -20 degrees one of my biggest allies

[BlisteredWhippet]

I'll up the tire pressure to near the maximun today... ty for the tip.

Whoa buddy I said pump the tires UP not to the max....

A word on tire pressures here... OEM tire pressures are only suggestions, and only applicable to the tires that came OEM. Other tires have different pressure needs. Further, different bikes, different suspensions, and different load weights need different tire pressures.

Pumping tires to the max will adversely affect suspension, handling, and braking. It will increase the chance of "floating" on road debris, gravel, etc. It will also decrease tire life. SO DON'T PUMP TO THE MAX!

Pump the tire up until it performs the best for your bike and you. What does that mean? Its hard to explain how to "feel" this, especially on a new bike. In general though, if you can identify "cupping' from underinflation then you need to go higher than oem. Under load, the tire should retain a circular curvature. For example I was running a newer tire using OEM pressure and my local MC mech was immediately able to identify cupping. I boosted pressure to 34 from 28 and immediately noticed an improvement in handling and rolling... but this is for my bike and my tires. Your results may vary.

On scooters most need a rear pressure higher than the front by about 1/3. The relatively light front end needs the tire to give a little to absorb shock. With relatively dinky suspensions tire pressure makes a big difference to performance.

In terms of mpg, you're looking at getting tires to a more ideal inflation. If the manual thinks an "avg. rider" is 160 lbs and you weigh 220, then you should probably bump up the pressure a little.

[BlisteredWhippet]

I live in a small town surrounded by country. I am moving out of town and plan on getting an electric scooter and power it off my solar panels.

The rest of the 'merka. Forget it. You will not be out in slush, ice, and snow. and that is what places have 6 months of the year. Big bikes are good for the desert southwest and where folks are too spread out for scooters. Scooters are for tight livable European cities and not 'merkan suburban sprawl.

I totally disagree. In fact, scooters are very well suited to suburban sprawl. The wide American boulevards are like racecourses for scooters. Sidwalks have wheelchair on-ramps for easy parking. Having run scooters in American sprawl for 5 years and then looking at, say, Rome, I can't imagine that they have it better.

As far as distance and practicality, most 150s can get on freeways here. 150s can achieve highway speeds, even 125s can do it. Safety depends foremost on the rider's skills. The freeways are lame because of the speed limit and cars, but 200 and up should be able to handle them easily. I do freeway and highway riding all the time on a 250.

I love the scoots, but I sold a 125 getting 90mpg for a 250 getting 65mpg, simply because I bought a bicycle which replaces the need for an engine for most small trips and gives me better health. The 250 will give me 70mpg and the option of freeway or city speed & hauling.

As far as "real" bikes vs. scooters, whatever. I've never ridden a "real" bike. Therefore I feel totally comfortable doing 65 on a scooter. Scooters require slightly different skills, although a lot of the skills are applicable and the basics are the same.

The difference between a scooter and a "real" bike are basically mechanical from what I can tell. A scooter's CVT transmission excels in the city with stop and go conditions. CVTs require much less maintenance and attention. There is rider position, wind protection, hauling capacity, and all that as well... but to me, all the small displacement 2 wheelers are tons of fun.

[BlisteredWhippet]

The Honda passport C70 or CT90 will return something around 110+ from what I've read.

The single best modification I know of is a windshield. It makes the bike far more practical and enjoyable. It might make a few mpgs too.

For mpg with a CVT scoot, some additional tips would be accelerate before hills, use "engine braking", drive gently to warm up, don't let it idle, clean the carb...

There are also possibilities messing around with variator weights (lighter or heavier), clutch springs, carb jetting, and exhaust modifications but thats beyond my ken at this point.

[OneLoneClone]

I like scooters too, but recently a study shwoed that the old 2stroke scooter emit more pollution than SUV's.

You may be getting great gas mileage but don't pretend is eco-friendly or anything.

The newer ones are more efficient...but those lefty hipsters on vespas aren't hipsters they''re hippocrits.

I suggest getting a skateboard or a bike for cities. I prefer a skateboard because its easy to use with buses, subways, and cabs if you need to go faster. I'm thinking about getting one of these new electric skateboards or teh new electric goped.

Anyway, I dont mean to harsh on the scooter buzz...just get a newer one not a 2stroke.

You get up to 100 miles per gallon, on top of the hipster factor and the feel of the wind in your hair. But there's one imperfection to these sassy little two-wheeled machines: A March 2005 study by the Environmental Protection Agency shows most scooters on the road pollute more than SUVs.

That sounded so counterintuitive that WW decided to test a few scooters, with help from the crew at Esquire Motors in Goose Hollow, which donated its time and emissions-testing equipment.

Then came the hard part.

Telephone calls and emails seeking scooters to test from scooter shops and groups went unanswered; other scooter owners proved willing to talk—until the story's angle was revealed. Finally, however, we persuaded three scooter lovers to volunteer their vehicles.

Patrick Fitzgibbons, co-owner and founder of P-Town Scooters, let us test his vintage scooter, which established just how bad older models are. Although he knew his pride and joy wasn't the cleanest of motorized vehicles, Fitzgibbons was still surprised by the results.

"How bad is it?" he asked.

Pretty bad. His 1968 Piaggio Gran Turismo, with a two-stroke, 150-cc engine, registered 4,900 parts per million of hydrocarbons and 8.6 percent carbon dioxide emissions. That was 29 times the hydrocarbon levels and nearly three times the carbon dioxide rate of another scooter WW tested—a 2006 MotoFino 150T-10D with a four-stroke engine, courtesy of Prestige Motors in Southeast Portland. The MotoFino kicked out 168 ppm of hydrocarbons and 3.1 percent CO2.

Four-strokes tend to burn cleaner than two-stroke engines, which run on a mixture of fuel and oil. One of Fitzgibbons' customers, Shayne Weinstein, offered up for testing his more modern two-stroke, a 2005 Stella also made by Piaggio. Its levels of 1,100 ppm of unburned hydrocarbons and 7.1 percent CO2 fell in between the older two-stroke engine and the four-stroke.

source

[rwwff]

ppm's and percentages are only useful for comparing equivalent volumes of exhaust. Since the volume of exhaust produced by the SUV is much higher than the volume of exhaust by the 2 stroke scooter, it is useless to compare the two without directly stating the volume and temperature.

A real comparison would tell how many pounds of CO2 were released over a tested 100 mile trip.

[BlisteredWhippet]

For me, I just don't see that the hassle of 2-stroke ownership is worth it. The plug chops, the noisy, smelly exhaust, the lack of power... I would say a 125cc 4-stroke is minimum in terms of practicality.

[BlisteredWhippet]

there is a guy in town who is putting chainsaw motors on regular bicycles. quick dirty and loud but we will see this more and more in the future.

This I don't get at all. Total retardation.

Super low gearing on a bicycle is what I recommend for fatasses that can't get up hills. I have a 34 tooth Shimano hill climbing gear on my cassette that makes really steep hills slow but relatively effortless.

[rwwff]

For me, I just don't see that the hassle of 2-stroke ownership is worth it. The plug chops, the noisy, smelly exhaust, the lack of power... I would say a 125cc 4-stroke is minimum in terms of practicality.

I don't disagree, I just hate mathematically dishonest presentations.

[gnm]

Scooters are okay if you live in town but since I have 8 miles of unimproved forest road to get home this is my other car.... although mine is a 2000 (all green).



Oh and what he said about the 2 strokes.... Ick.

-G

[eastbay]

BW,

Thanks again. I didn't get around to it because I rode the bicycle instead today. I'm a big mechanical clutz so when it requires service I'll take it in and have an 'expert' check the pressure. It looks fine for now so I'll just leave it alone.

[TommyJefferson]

Crash-porn pictures like that can be assembled for bicyclists and pedestrians too, in fact for any human activity such images can be assembled. Why put them here? We all know what injuries look like.

That's not true. I know many, many people who ran across a cheap scooter and thought "that'll be fun" without any comprehension of what damage a low-speed get-off can cause.

I thought you were one of them. I was doing my part to raise awareness. I see you have two-wheel experience, so nevermind.

[ColossalContrarian]

I bought my Vespa P200E for $500, rebuit the engine (it has the malosi kit) and spent an addition $600 on parts.

It can go 70mph (although running at that speed for more than a few minutes causes the engine to soft sieze...)

It gets about 68mpg so long as gas doesn't drip out the carb...

[strider3700]

I ride my honda CBR 600 a fair amount. I recently got a chance to ride the brother in laws new scooter. They are different handling wise and I found the scooter to be twitchy and kind of scary but I guess it's what you get used to.

Anyways my biggest complaint about scooters is up here they don't require a special license. you need a motorcycle license for anything over I think 199cc.

My issue is even on the 100cc you still have to turn the same way as on a bike, the danger of coming off at speed is the same, the risks from other drivers is the same basically they are motorcycles that don't have the same top speed and should be licensed as such.

There are far too many people on scooters that don't have the first clue about how to safely ride.

[eastbay]

TJ,

All is cool. People should be fully aware of the dangers of moving unprotected across pavement at more than 10 mph. I nearly lost my arm as the result of a 25 mph bike accident at age 14. The scar is terrible (or neat looking... heh ) looking after nearly 40 years. No more throwing, but I can still lift like a forklift.

Hey!!! I just bought insurance... $93.00 for a year! Registration was $33.00 for 2 years. Scooters are the way to go, for sure.

I strongly recommend one as a cheap and fun manner to locally move your body from A to B and back to A.

[BlisteredWhippet]

A real comparison would tell how many pounds of CO2 were released over a tested 100 mile trip.

Well, we can come close, cant' we?

1968 Piaggio Gran Turismo, with a two-stroke, 150-cc engine, registered 4,900 parts per million of hydrocarbons and 8.6 percent carbon dioxide emissions.

Vs.:

Chevy Suburban

RPM A/F Ratio CO HC CO2 O2

854 14.0 1.50 106 14.6 0.00
2135 13.9 1.79 55 14.4 0.00

CO2 is represented as a percentage of the total. So the 'burban releases more CO2-much more. But the 'burban beat both scoots releasing less HCs per unit of fuel: 106ppm vs. 168 for a "new tech" 2-stroke. The amount of CO and O2 emitted from the GT is probably fairly obscenely greater than the burban as well, and probably greater for the newer scooter.

The old 2-strokes are as bad as weedwhackers in terms of smog pollutants, and the new ones are only a bit worse than a huge SUV..

Its not surprising. 4-strokes are inherently cleaner. The Burban has fuel injection, multiple up and downstream sensors, A/F computers, rare earth catalytic convertors....

If you factor in the amount of energy used and emissions from the act of making the SUV, it might make a difference. Still, the sheer amount of just HCs put off by the GT means the construction process would have to be pretty inefficient. They don't use 2-stroke motors to mine palladium do they?

[eastbay]

I understand the newer 2 stroke scooter engines dump an excessive amount of co2 too. The local paper had an article about it recently but I didn't pay attention to the details, but the general message was to avoid them if you're concerned about contributing excessively to the co2 buildup while you ride.

[Grimnir]

I posted this table last time this topic came up. Basically, 2-stroke scooters pollute more than just about anything out there (yes, even in per-mile comparisons), while 4-stroke ones pollute the least.

http://www.bajajusa.com/emissions.htm

[rwwff]

I posted this table last time this topic came up. Basically, 2-stroke scooters pollute more than just about anything out there (yes, even in per-mile comparisons), while 4-stroke ones pollute the least.

http://www.bajajusa.com/emissions.htm

Much better, though the lack of a listing for CO and mpg for the 2 stroke scooter makes the table look biased.

The important point of course, is that the 4 stroke scooters are way better than anything else out there.