[eastbay]

I haven't gotten that far, but regarding the lines above, Kunstler is a huge smartass. He may well be saying exactly what he sees Bush thinking, and doing it deadpan. My initial reaction to Kunstler would suspect the smartass intention long long long before the pro war intention.

But again, I'm reading it slowly. He's too much fun to read fast.


Nope. He was dead serious.

The economic waste and bloodletting caused by America's military occupation of Iraq is horrifying. There is no possible moral or ethical excuse. The tens of thousands killed as a direct result of the US invasion were well-worth it right? And 150 billion dollars a year to accomplish absolutely nothing is really cool stuff. Hey, but who cares anyhow, right? It's our kids that will pay not us because it's all done with deficit spending! And a thousand dead occupation soldiers each year is nothing compared to the number killed on the road, so who will ever even notice?

Yeah, maybe Kunstler's right after all. The Iraq invasion/occupation is a good move for the USA. It's so good, in fact, the USA should invade and permanently occupy many more dictatorships! I mean, if a US military occupation of one or two nasty dictatorship-run countries is good, then occupying 10 would be much better! (kidding)

By the way, I read his book in two or three sittings. I couldn't put it down. I can't imagine anyone reading this book slowly. But after reading that pro-war section my perspective had certainly changed and it wasn't as much fun any longer.

EastBay

[HonestPessimist]

The economic waste and bloodletting caused by America's military occupation of Iraq is horrifying. There is no possible moral or ethical excuse. The tens of thousands killed as a direct result of the US invasion were well-worth it right?

And the economic waste and bloodletting the Allies inflicted on Germany and Japan in World War II and the eventual military occupations of both countries were no different than that of Iraq??

Between 1914 to 1918, approximately 30,000 British and Commonwealth soldiers were killed in the British Mesopotamian Campaign to liberate Iraq from the Ottoman Turks, then the 16 years British occupation of Iraq after the end of WW 1 which was far more bloody and brutal than the current occupation of Iraq by the American, British and coalition forces.
http://www.allianceforsecurity.org/iraq-occupation

Pretty much everything that happened to Iraq since the 1910s have been the works of the British, then which have passed onto the Americans since the end of WW2.

http://www.regiments.org/nations/mideast/iraq.htm

Sadly, not so many American students take world and 20th century history seriously nowadays. Could have been a big difference with the importance of world/20th century history with American students the past 4 decades.

[peak_ah_boo]

It is with great anticipation that I have been looking forward to read "The Long Emergency". I'm not very far into it, only chapter 3, but I'm pleased to see that so far it is not just a rehash of his previous writings. I agree that he has a very engaging style and a way of stating the situation clearly.

Most surprising to me is the photo on the back cover of the dust jacket! I have not seen any pictures of Kunstler looking like this before, like Anton La Vay. Peak Oil is spooky enough without scaring the kids like this. Must have been a bet.

[mgibbons19]

It certainly is an interesting spin on the traditional 'glamour shot'

[strider3700]

I finished it earlier this week and have since moved on to heinberg's "power down". The long emergency was the first PO book I've read and some of it was quite informative, I had never thought about running out of natural gas and had no idea that there was such a problem restarting if there was a temporary shortage.

I found the War support a little strange but I'm convinced that the official explanation on why it's happening isn't the truth so maybe he's right. It wasn't of real intrest to me anyways.

The points about disease and climate change I already knew and I found I wasn't that interested in them.

The final section on what things could be like, and how the various parts of the us will end up was shocking until I found out that I might have to deal with pirates, at that point I took all of his predictions for the mexican invasion, the fundamentalist cults, and the empty states with a grain of salt.

Overall not bad, definitely dark but that comes with the subject, I still think he is too negative though. My main issue with that book is it really didn't give me the info I was looking for. It tells me that I'm screwed but I knew that before buying the book, I was looking for some hints on how to get along a little better after things get bad and this board is infinitely more valuable for that.

[Revi]

I just finished the book and have to say that I was not that impressed. Kunstler can write, so it was a great read, but the conclusions were sometimes good: We're all going back to farming and small town life, and sometimes a bit over the top: Nascar nation will go ballistic. It was good to read this and talk to some other peak freaks, because I think I have decided to take the whole thing with a grain of salt. None of the big peak oil books tell you much on what to do about peak oil. Heinberg,
Savinar, and Kunstler just tell you that it's going to get bad, but don't tell you what to do. At this point they are just ranting to the choir. We need someone to lead us out of this wilderness of gloom and doom into some kind of a future.

[Elfstrom]

None of the big peak oil books tell you much on what to do about peak oil. Heinberg, Savinar, and Kunstler just tell you that it's going to get bad, but don't tell you what to do. At this point they are just ranting to the choir. We need someone to lead us out of this wilderness of gloom and doom into some kind of a future.

The entire idea behind Heinberg's book Powerdown is a proposal to come out of oil depletion without entering the stone age. The Post-Carbon Institute is influenced by Heinberg's suggestions.

[sunspot42]

The final section on what things could be like, and how the various parts of the us will end up was shocking until I found out that I might have to deal with pirates, at that point I took all of his predictions for the mexican invasion, the fundamentalist cults, and the empty states with a grain of salt.

Um, you do realize that piracy is already a huge problem in parts of Southeast Asia, and that it's getting worse. I wouldn't be surprised to see Asian pirates eventually expand their range to cover the whole of the Pacific. After all, Peak Oil will bankrupt the US Government - it's not like we're going to be able to afford to police the oceans anymore, as we have for the past 60 years and as the English and other major European powers had for a hundred plus years before that.

We're going to have enough trouble keeping gangs of criminals from operating on land. It's has the potential to be a return to a pre-Civil War world, only with about 10 times the population and some very dangerous technology floating around.

[Revi]

I have to say that Kunstler's book is an excellent way to get the message of peak oil out there. What peak oil needs is a spokesman like him who can really write. I guess that I have moved beyond the problem to working on the solution. I know that the odds are stacked against us, but I feel that there are things we can do. Moving into low energy consumption lifestyles can help us to be ready for peak oil. I guess I am waiting for a book that talks about the actual practical nuts and bolts things we can do to prepare for this problem. Kunstler's book was an excellent wake up call.

[mgibbons19]

I finally finished it. I dig it. But I like Kunstler's writing for the most part.

As per the Iraqui thing, it didn't bother me so much. I did get the vibe that he was saying 'this is what we are doin', moreso than 'this is what we should be doing.'

The disease and famine parts seem a little over the top, but they are certainly possible problems. The same with the pirates. I guess in the spirit of trying to envision what might happen, they are all possibilities.

Overall, a fun book. Depressing as all hell. but fun. To lighten things up, I think I'll read High Noon for Nat Gas.


Edit to add: I think expecting these authors to tell us what to do is a bit much. How does anyone know how to handle this? He offers a few suggestions, but doesn't lay out a survival plan by any means.

[Whitecrab]

eastbay, why don't you write Kunstler with your thoughts and see what he says? Might be interesting to see.

[eastbay]

WhiteCrab,

I'm sure others are thinking the same thing. He briefly explains his support for the war in his book in much the same manner as others who favored removal of Saddam by military force and supported the Iraq invasion and the ongoing military occupation.

It's the same arguments we've all heard a thousand times and there's no need for me to hear it once more.

EastBay

[mgibbons19]

Yeah, he writes back. He's cool. I've communicated with him twice and gotten real human replies from him.

[I_Like_Plants]

Kunstler IS a smartass, I've corresponded with him.

I love everything the guy writes and I admire both his energy (do some digging around on the peak oil problem on the net and you'll find he's writing for all kinds of magazines and doing all kinds of interviews).

I admire that he, unlike many people who say they care about the environment, rides a bicycle most of the time, has had his mini-truck for years and years and barely drives it, only when needed. I believe he takes the train etc. whenever possible to go to lectures etc. He walks the walk.

But, on his pro-war stance, he's NOT being a smartass, he believes that the "Islamo-fascists" really want to slaughter us all. He believes the war was The Right Thing To Do (tm) and all that. He'd dead serious on all that.

Maybe the alternative, ending unreasonable support for Israel, is too unthinkable.

[Bandidoz]

I'd give it 4/5. 5/5 for problem domain, 3/5 for solution domain.

Out of all of the books I've read so far on Peak Oil I think Kunstler has provided the best introduction to the problem domain of the lot. The scope covers everything, including Peak Oil/Gas, Global Warming, Overpopulation, and how individuals lead their lives. Thus he makes it very easy for the layperson to "connect the dots" and understand how their own lives would be affected.

He talks about entropy a lot throughout the book, although he doesn't really spell out what the word "entropy" actually represents (he refers to "high/low entropy" which would be in terms of energy states (order/chaos), but also refers to "the process of entropy" being the force of decay that drives systems from order to chaos; where an energy input was necessary to put the system into the ordered state and keep it there). You cannae cheat the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, Captain!

Although I disagree with his non-conspiratol views, the fact he believes there are "no conspiracies" makes this a good book for those who believe what the media are telling us vis-a-vis Geopolitics. Which is probably most people. I lost count of the number of times the name "Hitler" appeared so I get the feeling that he's Jewish.

I think he's overly pessimistic about alternatives. Perhaps he feels this is necessary to undo any "silver bullet / magic elixir" thinking the reader may conjure. Quite rightly he points out that currently the alternatives require fossil fuel inputs, but I believe that the various technologies will eventually support one another, albeit on a smaller scale, and probably with poorer reliability.

Reading between the lines, I think he believes that since the alternatives cannot be enjoyed by all, they cannot be egalitarian, and are thus not worth persuing. The only "solution for all" being small agricultural communities, which appears to be the future he longs for, with little or no central Government. I personally believe there will be enough alternatives to be used predominantly for infrastructure, and any leftovers rationed.

Overall it's a good read, Kunstler is an entertaining writer, and I'd recommend it as an introductory book. What becomes clear from his writing is that his vocabulary and the amount of reading he has done is immense. He mentioned "shitstorm" but not "clusterfuck" (as in "The End of Suburbia"). I've visited dictionary.com a number of times whilst reading this, in between feeling somewhat depressed occasionally as well as feeling the urge to burn down supermarkets

[BabyPeanut]

The End is Nigh
David Ehrenfeld

The Long Emergency: Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century. James Howard Kunstler. x + 307 pp. Atlantic Monthly Press, 2005. $23.

James Howard Kunstler begins The Long Emergency with the hope that "the American public will wake up from its sleepwalk and act to defend the project of civilization" while there is still time. "Throughout this book," he writes, "I will concern myself with what I believe is happening, what will happen, or what is likely to happen, not what I hope or wish will happen." The reality that our society is currently refusing to face, Kunstler says, is that time is just about up for industrial civilization as we have known it.

--More--

[FireJack]

Peak oil is getting attention, to bad no one is listening. I bet even the new york times, the washington post, and every other major news paper could do a front page news story on peak oil all on the same day and I bet most people still won't have heard of it. I fear life may get hard very soon.
I'm just glad I don't live in the US.

[I_Like_Plants]

Kunstler's pro-war views are not discussed, but then I'd not expect a "David Ehrenfeld" to rat on a fellow tribesman.

[KiddieKorral]

but then I'd not expect a "David Ehrenfeld" to rat on a fellow tribesman.

Was that particular comment necessary?