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THE James Lovelock Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby eXpat » Sat 28 Nov 2009, 19:33:19

Garrett says colleagues generally support his theory, while some economists are critical. One economist, who reviewed the study, wrote: "I am afraid the author will need to study harder before he can contribute."

ahhhh, but if an economist says is not valid, is not valid then :badgrin:
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw

You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby dissident » Sat 28 Nov 2009, 19:49:19

Economists think that the human mind creates reality. They are true Rovian cultists.
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby patience » Sat 28 Nov 2009, 21:04:19

"Economists think that the human mind creates reality."

Yeah, and like daipers and politicians, economists need to be changed frequently, and for the same reason..... :P
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby ian807 » Sat 28 Nov 2009, 21:30:04

Scientist vs. economist (soothsayer). Guess who wins?
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby kpeavey » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 01:48:21

Garrest says
"No," he says. "Ultimately, it's not clear that policy decisions have the capacity to change the future course of civilization."
Thats a hell of a statement.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
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twenty centuries of stony sleep were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, and what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 02:53:15

"Fundamentally, I believe the system is deterministic," says Garrett. "Changes in population and standard of living are only a function of the current energy efficiency. That leaves only switching to a non-carbon-dioxide-emitting power source as an available option."

"The problem is that, in order to stabilize emissions, not even reduce them, we have to switch to non-carbonized energy sources at a rate about 2.1 percent per year. That comes out to almost one new nuclear power plant per day."

"If society invests sufficient resources into alternative and new, non-carbon energy supplies, then perhaps it can continue growing without increasing global warming," Garrett says.

Does Garrett fear global warming deniers will use his work to justify inaction?"No," he says. "Ultimately, it's not clear that policy decisions have the capacity to change the future course of civilization."

First off, power plants only last about 50 years. Meaning, we already replace around 2.1% of our existing energy infrastructure every year.

Moreover, a new nuclear power plant costs $2 billion. $2 billion/day would be around $700 billion a year.

That's a big number but it's not an impossible number. If the US health care system spent as much money per capita as the Canadian system, it would free up more than a trillion dollars a year.

The world spends $2.4 trillion a year on oil at $80/barrel. The fuel savings from switching from a coal/gas power grid to a nuclear/renewable power grid would pay for a large share of the bill.

We don't need more wealth, we just need to redirect existing wealth into more productive enterprises.

Don't get too gloomy. :)
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby eastbay » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 03:57:17

Let's not forget we could finance half if the USA and Europe didn't have to fund the idiotic wars on Islam.
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby Stonemason » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 04:56:38

Most economists aren't taught economics, at least, I must assume this by the keynesian Expletive deleted. I hear on the retarded MSM.
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby Crazy_Dad » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 07:25:16

Lovelock is on the money in my opinion. Let the apathy of the world hegemony cause the EEE.
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby cipi604 » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 09:39:17

Is Global Warming Unstoppable?
ScienceDaily (Nov. 24, 2009) — In a provocative new study, a University of Utah scientist argues that rising carbon dioxide emissions -- the major cause of global warming -- cannot be stabilized unless the world's economy collapses or society builds the equivalent of one new nuclear power plant each day.
The economy will collapse all right , why? Because peak-oil means that we already are on borrowed time here.
The peak is already visible in the rear-view mirror. No plan B folks. Plan A is too big to fail.
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby mcgowanjm » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 10:02:02

The fuel savings from switching from a coal/gas power grid to a nuclear/renewable power grid would pay for a large share of the bill.
We don't need more wealth, we just need to redirect existing wealth into more productive enterprises. Don't get too gloomy. :)
The only thing that can keep up with exponential growth is something that itself grows exponentially.
The oil industry’s only model is growth. The only large-scale economic model known is for growth, made possible in the past from petroleum supplies in ever-increasing abundance. These sources are collapsing in oil-producing countries, and demand will never be met by tar sands, heavy oils, or biofuels. As oil supply plummets, the industry will be unable to adapt. It cannot just ratchet down its refining output to follow a smooth depletion curve. Refineries must utilize their capacity at high levels to produce a balance of products (gasoline, distillates, fuel oils). This need will remain even as lower-producing wells are capped and already rusting facilities require ever-growing investments and retrofits.
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 14:42:47

The only thing that can keep up with exponential growth is something that itself grows exponentially.
Good point. Maybe cornies can find us an exponentially growing planet to move to!
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby Pretorian » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 17:16:05

Oh, there is nothing as refreshing as selective racism isnt it.
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby americandream » Mon 30 Nov 2009, 01:48:44

Well I guess when you're trying to cadge a few trillions from the religion opiated masses, a tinge of metaphyscis can't go wrong!

dissident wrote:Economists think that the human mind creates reality. They are true Rovian cultists.
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby americandream » Mon 30 Nov 2009, 01:50:20

Even more effervescent, is the flavour of unadulterated lumpenproletarianism.

Pretorian wrote:Oh, there is nothing as refreshing as selective racism isnt it.
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby americandream » Mon 30 Nov 2009, 01:52:00

Said Idiot muslims who in turn are funded by fat cat muslim sovereign funds with ties to western wealth pools. 8O
GASMON wrote:
eastbay wrote:Let's not forget we could finance half if the USA and Europe didn't have to fund the idiotic wars on Islam.
AND we could finance the other half if the idiot muslims left the west alone.
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby americandream » Mon 30 Nov 2009, 01:53:57

Wonder what you're gonna do when the economy does not collapse on cue cip?
cipi604 wrote:The economy will collapse all right , why? Because peak-oil means that we already are on borrowed time here. The peak is already visible in the rear-view mirror. No plan B folks. Plan A is too big to fail.
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby eastbay » Mon 30 Nov 2009, 03:24:36

GASMON wrote:AND we could finance the other half if the idiot muslims left the west alone.
If the idiot Westerners would not have imported Islam ....
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Re: Lovelock is right! We are doomed!!!

Unread postby americandream » Mon 30 Nov 2009, 03:37:04

Stupid suckers fought the Soviets for the bankster racketeers. Idiots alright.
eastbay wrote:
GASMON wrote:
eastbay wrote:Let's not forget we could finance half if the USA and Europe didn't have to fund the idiotic wars on Islam.
AND we could finance the other half if the idiot muslims left the west alone.
If the idiot Westerners would not have imported Islam ....
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