[davep]

Frankly, it's a political manouevre to destabilise the Euro to avoid looking too hard at the dollar which has higher per-capita debt.

These are the only high profile currencies and both are in trouble. It serves the US interests to keep the focus elsewhere.

[ItalyRules]

We prefer the economic austerity that comes from overthrowing the status quo to that imposed by economic overlords.

We prefer the hard times that brings change and improvement for the 99% to that of refilling the coffers of the 1%.

[Loki]

Always fun to read the post of someone who has obviously failed Economics 101. Here's BBC's assessment
"While Italy's deficit is relatively low, investors are concerned that the combination of Italy's low growth rate and 1.9tn euro (£1.63tn; $2.6tn) debt could make it the next country to fall in the eurozone debt crisis."

So Italy, what would you have the Italians do? Refuse to pay their debt? Sorry, no one lends you any more. And you face your own self imposed "austerity", or have someone else "impose austerity on the Italian slave workers and make them pay their foreign debts." Either way austerity is the outcome. For those countries in debt, the post peak oil world will really be tough.

So "taxation without representation" is fine and dandy with you as long as the bankers are made whole?

[The Practician]

We prefer the economic austerity that comes from overthrowing the status quo to that imposed by economic overlords.

We prefer the hard times that brings change and improvement for the 99% to that of refilling the coffers of the 1%.

Thats the spirit! And If the banksters complain to loudly, you can offer them 100% Haircuts

[Sixstrings]

Am I the only one who thinks it's a problem that democracies in Europe are falling to dictatorship, one after the other?

Nobody is else troubled by this?

I mean in general by the way, not this forum per se.. but out there in the zeitgeist it's just ok, completely necessary to end democracy in favor of what must be done for the bankers.

I just don't get it. Communist dictatorship is bad and we spent trillions and fought a Cold War over that, yet it all ends in banker dictatorship and nobody has a problem with that.

[Oneaboveall]

Am I the only one who thinks it's a problem that democracies in Europe are falling to dictatorship, one after the other?

Nobody is else troubled by this?

I mean in general by the way, not this forum per se.. but out there in the zeitgeist it's just ok, completely necessary to end democracy in favor of what must be done for the bankers.

I just don't get it. Communist dictatorship is bad and we spent trillions and fought a Cold War over that, yet it all ends in banker dictatorship and nobody has a problem with that.

Exactly. I noticed the "libertarians" are pretty silent about this.

[ItalyRules]

Italy moves closer to Dictatorship

PRIME MINISTER in waiting, former European commissioner Mario Monti appeared to edge closer to government office yesterday when he received a warm ovation in the Italian senate, on the day the upper house ratified an emergency austerity budget designed to reassure both EU partners and the bond markets.

Appointed senator for life by state president Giorgio Napolitano on Wednesday evening, Prof Monti was ostensibly taking up his senate seat for the first time. In reality, the sustained applause that greeted Prof Monti and the greeting offered to him by senate speaker Renato Schifani, both suggested that this was something more than just the first day in parliament for a new senator.

Italy's love for Dictatorship is showing.

Prof Monti is expected to head an emergency “technical” government for at least the next six months, if not all the way through to the end of the legislature in the spring of 2013.

This austerity law is Monti's own Enabling Act.

Enabling Act of 1933

Monti is known for his achievements as a "Eurocrat," at the heart of Europe's institutions.

Dubbed Super Mario for his work in international finance, he served as a leading European Commission member for a decade -- including as commissioner for its financial services, market and taxation committee between 1995 and 1999 and as head of its competition committee from 1999 to 2004.

Banker Dictatorship is a good description. The President is a ceremonial position. The Power resides with the Prime Minister.

Napolitano is a good von Hindenburg.

[Plantagenet]

Next will be EU troops coming in to impose slavery on the Italian people.

Thats a nice fantasy.

However, in the real world the Italians are begging the EU to come rescue them and bail them out. Thats why the Italians put an EU banker in charge of their country--- the EU told them they had to do it if Italy was going to get any more bailouts.

[ItalyRules]

For one that considers only the 1% as being people, that may be correct. But the 99% are not desiring this by a long shot.

They want to vote down the austerity measures and default.

It is the ruling class that is asking the EU for salvation. Not the people that matter.

It was the ruling class that put a banker in charge. It's also the ruling class that's wanting to sell off Italy's water resources.

That's about as evil as you can get.

In the most recent Flash Gordon series, Ming the Merciless rules by controlling the access to clean water. There's prophetic for you.

[Fishman]

Italy, didn't said country VOTE to join the EU? Go bankrupt, who gives a s&%t. Read a little about history, what disease did the northern Italians get from eating polenta all the time in prior times of austerity? When your own self induced austerity means hungry bellies, go to the Chinese. They have a long history of kindness and value of human rights.
And your post "We prefer the economic austerity that comes from overthrowing the status quo to that imposed by economic overlords. We prefer the hard times that brings change and improvement for the 99% to that of refilling the coffers of the 1%." I think Lenin said as much. The "dictatorship of the people " is far worse.

[Outcast_Searcher]

For one that considers only the 1% as being people, that may be correct. But the 99% are not desiring this by a long shot.

They want to vote down the austerity measures and default.

As usual, brilliant idea by ItalyRules.

If you want to see economic pain and people really suffer, go ahead and default.

See how eager folks are to lend money to Italy, and perhaps to trade with Italy after that. See what retirees savings look like when arbitrarily changed into the new Lyra, or whatever arbitrary confiscatory plan the defaulting Italian mobsters come up with. See what great social programs a morally and fiscally bankrupt new currency support. See how trusting the public is to work hard and support the austerity efforts when they can't trust their leaders not just to default.

Screw up the world's financial system via the banks while you're at it. That should garner LOTS of supporters and trading partners.

Have great fun with that. Instead of some austerity and coming to props with reality and paying the debts Italy incurrred, default and leap toward likely third world living standards for years. Worse case, maybe decades.

But it will all be justified because you don't like wealthy successful people who earned their money. Terrific.

[vision-master]

But it will all be justified because you don't like wealthy successful people who earned their money. Terrific.

* Suffers from the classic wealth envy disorder............. *

I luz how 'wealthy successful' is used.

[EnergyUnlimited]

They[average Italians - EU] want to vote down the austerity measures and default.

We should let them do it and face consequences.
They would be taught to live within their means at least, something what they are not fit to even contemplate at the moment.

Anyway, as long as EU exists in crumbling economy it is reasonable to expect that Germany will have Chancellor, France will have President, Britain - Prime Minister and other countries like Italy, Greece, Spain etc will enjoy governors.

[vision-master]

We should let them do it and face consequences.
They would be taught to live within their means at least, something what they are not fit to even contemplate at the moment.

and pull the rug out from under the 1%er's?

[ItalyRules]

THAT is their Achilles heel. All it takes is one of these nations to declare default and the house of cards comes tumbling down.

That is why they are preemptively imposing debt repayment.

The 1% remain the 1% only so long as everyone else continues to play THEIR game.

When a debt is incurred due to financial fraud, since when is the victim still required to pay?

When it was the gambling losses of the 1% that created the debt, how is it the 99%'s responsibility to cover their loses.

We refuse to shower with the 1%.

[JohnRM]

Am I the only one who thinks it's a problem that democracies in Europe are falling to dictatorship, one after the other?

No, not at all. The European Union has been trending toward dictatorship for ten years, at least, so it is none too surprising.

[Daniel_Plainview]

Fitch: Italy 'already in recession'
Italy is probably already in recession, ratings agency Fitch said on Thursday, adding that it would cut the country's credit rating further if Europe's third largest economy was shut out of the debt markets.

"Italy is likely already in recession and the downturn in activity across the euro zone has rendered the task of the new government much more difficult," Fthe ratings agency said in a statement.

Fitch, which downgraded Italy to A+ from AA- with a negative outlook last month, warned it would cut the country's ratings to the low investment grade category if it were unable to borrow at sustainable rates on the markets.
"Sustaining political and public support for structural reforms and austerity will be challenging in the face of rising unemployment. Convincing investors that the reforms will be effectively implemented and will boost economic growth over the medium term will be equally if not more challenging," it added.

Italy's borrowing costs hovered close to euro-era highs on Thursday, with yields on 10-year bonds touching 7.1pc early in the day - past the levels that forced its smaller neighbours Greece and Portugal to seek a bail-out.

The country has to refinance €312bn (£267bn) of debt next year. Fitch said Italian bond yields had risen to a level which, if protracted, would place public debt on an unsustainable path. "In the event that the Italian government loses market access -- not Fitch's base case -- the ratings would be lowered, likely to the low investment grade category."

Telegraph

[argyle]

Frankly, it's a political manouevre to destabilise the Euro to avoid looking too hard at the dollar which has higher per-capita debt.

These are the only high profile currencies and both are in trouble. It serves the US interests to keep the focus elsewhere.

Spot on

http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/m ... /1.1149139

[sjn]

Plenty of cognitive dissonance demonstrated in this thread from those fully bought into the system.

Some thoughts:

Debt backed fiat currencies *require* deficit spending (nominally living beyond fiscal means) to bring the currency into existence and support the upward transfer of wealth to the top of the pyramid.

Economic Growth is *required* to offset the expansion in money supply and enable the lower tiers to be enfranchised into the system. Hard work is rewarded by opportunity to move up the pyramid, promise of material consumer products and access to the commercial entertainment industry.

This system has been refined over the last few centuries to maintain the privilige of the elite (aka the "1%"), within an environment of increasing resource/wealth extraction and labour productivity, it was never designed, no end goal was envisaged and no provision was made for the risk that limits to growth exist.

To advocate in favour of the banks, the financial system, and its proxy Governments/NGOs is to dismiss the limitations of reality, in particular the consquences of Peak Oil and ecological damage resulting from climax natural wealth extraction.

[M_B_S]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/italian-i ... 29750.html


ROME (AP) -- Italy is implementing emergency measures to ensure homes stay warm as a fall in Russian gas supplies has coincided with an unusually cold spell.

The Ministry for Economic Development said Monday some thermal power plants have been ordered to burn oil instead of methane gas while some industrial clients will also see their gas supplies temporarily cut.

(ANSA) - Milan, February 6 - Italy is sure of having enough gas until Wednesday, officials said Monday after the wave of cold weather and snow caused demand to soar and imports to decrease.

"The situation is certainly critical because supplies have diminished from Russia and France," said Industry Minister Corrado Passera. "But the situation is being monitored well".

http://www.anhourago.eu/show.aspx?l=55902395&d=504
*************
Italy plans to cut gas supply next week to industial customers because of a accute shortage and high domestic demand for home heating while russia cuts his exports to italy because of record low temperatures in his homeland too.

An energy crisis in Europe enfolds!