[I_Like_Plants]

In town bicyclists put him in apoplectic shock by hopping curbs in and out of traffic. His heart skips a beat as they sprint through red lights. In the neighborhood, from the ankle-chopping vista of the Miata cockpit, his forehead breaks out in hives as children leave pedestrian sidewalks and run out onto the street.

The Anarchy! The Chaos! Its all too much.

That's a driver's viewpoint. In fact I've noticed it pisses drivers off if I simply don't walk in streight lines and turn at right angles. Try walking diagonally across a parking lot and watch any driver in sight seethe. At my bank I typically park my car a few slots down from where the door is, the natural route is to walk a diagonal to the front door but it's only at the price of making drivers livid and risking one even trying to hit me. Homo americanus mechanicus expects everything to be done in machine-fashion. I generally have to walk streight across the parking lot then do a 90 degree turn and walk to the front door. Like a little robot. And everyone's happy.

[BlisteredWhippet]

Roads are bad for the human condition, I'm convinced. They are boring, unnatural, and dangerous.

That said, they can be fun!

[BlisteredWhippet]

If you don't mind the (lack of) safety factor and dressing like you have a leather fetish, there's always the motorcycle option.

Some people like leather fetishes. I, for one.

[crossthread]

Drafting Semi's DO result in increased gas milage, Too a "point"
Test's were done on "Mythbusters" drafting a semi... At different lenghts. At speed (i can't remember whether it was 55/or 60/65 MPH.

If I recall correctly, about 100/125 foot driving behind a Semi results a gas savings of around 43/45 %....Any closer than that savings then drops...
The concept of drafting, is that a "Low pressure" area forms behind the trailer, thus "PULLING" the car along with it, (breaking the fricton and air in front of you...
Same thing with just 2 normal cars drafting together...
NASCAR drivers do this, it's a very WELL KNOWN fact that "drafting" pushes the car in front more effeciently, while REDUCING drag on the car thats behind...
Simple Physics...
Think driving behind a large boats wake...

IN ADDITION.........
Driving around with windows DOWN AND NO AC, results in increased drag on the car/truck/van which in turn INCREASES Gas milage...
So folks keep that AC/heat on and windows up...
CT

[BlisteredWhippet]

I'm seeing a 22% increase over average fuel economy using hypermiling.

Mostly I just turn the engine off and glide. I also started doing more intense glides, like shutting the car off and on 3 or four times, on different roads, on a trip into town. On the highway, I probably took in 6-7 miles on my last 60 mile trip. If factors allow, hypermiling is much easier and safer. For instance, an early morning trip, weekend trip, etc. there will be less traffic.

But drafting, in my compact pickup, with all-manual controls, and questionable braking capability, is out of the question.

[jdmartin]

I agree with yesplease.

Well good for you. I hope you're both very happy together.

Do a little thinking and you'll realize the vast majority of risk, accidents, traffic jams and basic shit on the highways and byways is caused by excessive speed and following too close.

Isn't one of the "tenets" of hypermiling drafting, ie following too close?

People drive too fast because they are trying to make the person they imagine behind them "happy". Fearing a "jdmartin" on their tail, and his frumpy disapproval, they sink their foot into the accelerator.

On the contrary, most people I see on the highway follow the exact opposite mindset.

I can't understand why people cannot step back and just observe the self-defeating mechanisms of their own behavior. Jack rabbit starts, stops, tailgating, speeding... its all useless. I just see them at the next stoplight... and they call me an asshole because I'm going 40-50.

Agreed.

Conformity, uniformity, and placing responsibility on others that belong to oneself is the name of jdmartin's game here. Jdmartin imagines a utopian vision where he telepathically "knows" what other drivers will do. In this vision, all drivers behave completely predictably. No one ever makes a sudden maneuver, a deer never runs into the road, no one ever changes lanes without signalling, and no one ever disagrees on just how fast is appropriate for conditions.

I don't imagine anything - I realize that most drivers, including you, are sorry sacks of shit on the highway.

In effect, jdmartin's dream is that his big fat mouth and the admonitions bellowing out of it are the magic fairy dust that causes everyone else on the road to suddenly fall in line.

See my previous comment.

Poor jdmartin. Crammed in his invisible little Miata, eating shit everyday on his shitty commute, all he can do is bang his forehead into his steering wheel and seethe at the ignoble idiocy of the people he is passing. He sweats bullets as SUVs pass, careening into his lane, loads his shorts as a Semi fills his rear view.

Actually, my commute is quite enjoyable.

"If only everyone behaved in a predictable, reasonable fashion!" he mutters, as he slings mental bullets at the Minivan which rockets past him on the right at 80mph.

In town bicyclists put him in apoplectic shock by hopping curbs in and out of traffic. His heart skips a beat as they sprint through red lights. In the neighborhood, from the ankle-chopping vista of the Miata cockpit, his forehead breaks out in hives as children leave pedestrian sidewalks and run out onto the street.

Your pathetic ravings aside, you're actually a pretty good writer. I love the "mental bullets" line.

Bottom line:

1. I often wonder what coma people like you just awoke from, to resurrect old-ass posts like this one.

2. Obviously you're one of the asshole hypermilers that swings through stop signs to save a couple bucks of gas. If not, you'd re-read my posts and see that I'm all for driving reasonably on the highway, and against unreasonable attempts to save a gallon of gas by making the highway your personal fuel conservatory.

3. If you can't comprehend any of that, put down the bong, dude.

[JoeW]

It has been a number of tanks of gas since I last posted on this thread. Since my initial attempt, I have not been able to improve significantly on my fuel economy. My best run was 410 miles followed by a 10.5 gallon fillup (39 mpg). I need to get to 420 miles/10.5 gallon to break the 40 mpg barrier. Sometimes my wife will take my car on a short trip, which destroys a perfect streak I have going (no traffic jams, etc.) where I think I'm going to make it.

I once made it to work (25 mile trip) and used the brake only 6 times, including when I parked it in the garage.

By the way, some people have a very negative view of "drafting", but I don't think they understand that this can be done safely. I live in an area where there are always other cars on the highway, so technically, you're always following someone at a safe distance. I choose to seek out the situation where it is a tractor trailer, van, or other large vehicle that I am following, in the slow lane, at a safe distance. I call that "drafting". It is not the same as "tailgating".

By the way...my car is a '99 Ford Escort. I agree with some of the other posters here that the hybrid cars are totally not worth the investment. My car cost me $2999 used and I have already gotten 50,000 miles out of it (purchase price = six cents per mile and dropping).

Someone wanted to know if there is a motorcycle that is capable of 70 or 80mpg. If there is one, it is probably the Kawasaki Ninja 250 or a similarly-styled machine. Imagine if they would make it fuel-injected diesel instead.

I own a Kawasaki KLR650 that has achieved 50+mpg. I have never ridden a whole tank of gas with the goal of getting the best fuel economy, so it may be possible to get 60mpg.

[yesplease]

Isn't one of the "tenets" of hypermiling drafting, ie following too close?

Depends on who you ask. The extreme practishuners of t3h f41th liek Wayne (jackass imo) might state it is, but the vast majority of people who do *drive efficiently tend to state it's not worth the risk of a gator tail coming through your window and head. It's also not needed unless you absolutely have to go Xmph and want to get better than average mileage. Anyone can just go 54mph instead of riding 10ft off the ass of a semi at 65mph in order to see the same difference in aerodynamic drag. Course, if the driver thinks risking their life is worth 10 minutes on the hour, well, that's their choice. Judging by the way people drive in CA, most do.

*Btw "hypermiling" was supposedly coined by Wayne. What a shock.

[BlisteredWhippet]

I propose individual speed limits based on a verbal, mathematical, and spatial ability. In other words, a REAL test of ability, intelligence and judgment.

Speed limits should be based on a formula.

Now 'scuze me as I hit this bong.

[Chesire]

I get around 40 + miles per gallon in our camry . If the govt mandated 55 mph and backed it up with action. IE no car made could exceed 55 and any car without a governor installed that limited older cars to 55 would not get an inspection sticker. We could make a lot of progress.

As far as "hypermilers" go if they have a vehicle thats standard. They can count on angry angsty gas hog drivers with nothing to lose. Ramming them at least once as the country powers down.

[ClassicSpiderman]

I drive a small car (2004 Hyundai Accent--manual transmission) and according to the internet, it gets 31 mpg on the highway.
I've been getting 35+ mpg from combined city+highway driving by "coasting in neutral" as much as possible. This has freaked out many a passenger (my wife, mostly) because being in neutral on stick shift supposedly prevents me from quickly accelerating the car in case of a sudden hazard that would require me to do so.
In all of my time spent during driving, 99% of hazards are avoided by slowing down or applying the brakes. And I'm skillful enough to go from N to a gear when needed anyway.
When going down a hill while in gear, the engine actually prevents the car to take advantage of the momentum gained from gravity that one would normally get if he/she chooses to stay in neutral.
Whenever I approach a red light, I usually coast to a stop (that requires very little use of the brake) rather than race up to it. Sometimes this pisses off the guy behind me (you know the type that always likes to drive 20+ km/h above the posted speed limit) and he races and then comes to a sudden stop at the lights. Why do people do this?
Driving stick is also more fuel efficient and makes one more conscientious about thinking ahead. Will I need to come to a complete stop 100-200 meters from now?
There are hardcore hypermilers out there who go to even greater extremes--they like to tailgate larger vehicles (to cut down wind resistance) and sometimes they even go as far as completely turning off the engine when they coast down a hill. I refuse to do this, as it sounds dangerously insane.

[kjmclark]

You know, I think it takes an engineering geek type with a manual transmission to get into hypermiling. I know I was doing a lot of what they talk about before I had ever heard of the term.

Most of the time I glide, I don't take the car out of gear, I just hit the clutch. It does most of what I want without having the gear change issue. Presumably that's still illegal, but to hell with that inane law.

My favorite way to approach a red light is to slow well before I get to the light and glide up to the light. Often the light will change before you get there, and you can avoid using lower gears. Of course, since most people are brain dead opportunists, you can only do this when there isn't some idiot prepared to cut you off to get in front of you. I think that's the type Spidey talked about. What can you do, some people are cretins.

I hadn't thought of the whole pulse and glide idea. I've tried that a few times, but it doesn't seem to make much difference at expressway speeds, since the air drag is so high you slow down really quickly. It rocks below 65mph. I just wish I had an instant fuel economy gauge. We don't drive the car enough to have any idea what our mileage is when hypermiling.

[Byron100]

Most of the time I glide, I don't take the car out of gear, I just hit the clutch. It does most of what I want without having the gear change issue. Presumably that's still illegal, but to hell with that inane law.
My favorite way to approach a red light is to slow well before I get to the light and glide up to the light. Often the light will change before you get there, and you can avoid using lower gears. Of course, since most people are brain dead opportunists, you can only do this when there isn't some idiot prepared to cut you off to get in front of you. I think that's the type Spidey talked about. What can you do, some people are cretins.
I hadn't thought of the whole pulse and glide idea. I've tried that a few times, but it doesn't seem to make much difference at expressway speeds, since the air drag is so high you slow down really quickly. It rocks below 65mph. I just wish I had an instant fuel economy gauge. We don't drive the car enough to have any idea what our mileage is when hypermiling.

Why would putting the clutch in be illegal?? I've never heard such a law Besides, enforcement of something like that is totally 100% impossible, so who cares, right? I put my car into neutral all the time to coast to a stop...it just seems a perfectly natural thing to do... .
As for the coasting downhill bit, this reminds me of a fun experience I had once in Quebec, where there was this incredibly long, but arrow-straight slope down this mountain. Coming back down, I decided to play roller coaster, slowing the car to a crawl at the top, and putting it into neutral just we started down. Boy, I was amazed how quickly that thing rocketed past 80... woowheeee!! ...LOL. Too bad I had to waste all that kinetic energy by doing some hard braking before the next curve came up...sigh. Gravity is truly an amazing energy source if you have a way to put it to use..hehe.
Another thing I've noticed about getting higher mileage is having the advantage of a stiff tail wind as opposed to running into a headwind. This makes a huge difference, especially if you can draft a semi with the tailwind blowing behind you...this adds something like an extra 10 mpg or so.

[kjmclark]

Why would putting the clutch in be illegal?? I've never heard such a law Besides, enforcement of something like that is totally 100% impossible, so who cares, right? I put my car into neutral all the time to coast to a stop...it just seems a perfectly natural thing to do... .

Someone pointed it out this summer. Apparently it's written into the Uniform Vehicle Code, and appears in most states' vehicle codes. I was shocked to find it in my state's laws. Like I said, to hell with that.

I don't want to sound too chicken so I reason that the wheels must be engaged with the drive train for proper safety performance. Is that true?

No, that's probably wrong, but you *do* need the engine running, since it runs the power steering and power brake pumps. Without the engine running the steering will be harder (probably not a problem at those speeds) but *very* importantly, your braking will be much harder. Bad idea.
Certainly the car will handle a little differently in neutral, since there won't be any engine drag, but having done it for many years, I can assure you that the car is just as controllable. I can't blame you for jumping on your friend, though. I would *never* turn the engine off while moving. Yikes!

[Polemic]

Riding the clutch is a good way to rag it out, is it not? Replacing the clutch is usually around $500.

[mgibbons19]

not as long as the pedal is completely depressed?

[JoeW]

I started a similar thread a few months ago. When I take extreme measures, my '99 ford escort (epa says 34mpg highway) gets nearly 40mpg. Without getting too extreme, I easily get around 36 or 37 mpg in mixed driving (but mostly highway). Prior to "driving smart", as I like to call it, I was regularly achieving about 27mpg.
I always calculate mpg by using the trip odometer on the car (miles) divided by gallons at the gas statin to fill the empty tank.

The whole reason I started driving smart was to save money. I save about $40/mo. just by driving smarter. I also quit cigarattes, saving at least another $75/mo.

The easy path to hypermiling is just two things:
1) The slow lane
On the highway, get in the slow lane and stay there, preferably behind a truck at a safe distance (NOT tailgating). The speed limit is your friend. If the limit's 65, do 65. If it's 55, do 55. You should never do more than 70, because after much fooling around over the summer, 75mph seems to be the magic number in my car for declining fuel economy.
2) You have no brakes.
Drive like you have no brakes. This is where the "safe distance" for highway driving is really important. You want the vehicle in front of you to cut through the air for you. But you don't want to have to hit the brake hard if he decides to slow down for whatever reason, preferring mainly to take pressure off of the throttle to slow down.
Where the 'no brakes' rule really applies is in town where you have traffic lights and stop signs. Try to hit the traffic light green without using your brake at all. Try to stop just ONCE at each stop sign, rather than stop behind a car or two that are already stopped.
In mixed driving, I used my brake only six times one morning on the way to work and was pretty proud of myself.

Other things that I have done to increase fuel economy seem to result in much smaller gains than the driving technique above. I've tried keeping the windows up at all times, and later decided that aerodynamics are not important in town at low speeds, so with no air conditioning, I put the windows down for city driving and saw no difference in fuel economy.

I test drove a used Prius a few weeks back and on a 10-mile trip, I achieved 47.4mpg with half of it on the highway. The fuel economy gains of the hybrid really don't amount to much when you consider that you could buy two Chevy Aveos for the price of one Prius.

I am not advocating any kind of driving technique, just offering my own observations. Safety always comes first.

[Rabbit]

For the past few months I have been driving a 96 Toyota Tercel with a manual transmission. It needed new tires so I put the thinest tires I could on it 165 X 85 13's. I then put 60 psi in the tires to reduce rolling resistance. With thin tires aired up like these you just don't need power steering, so I removed the power steering belt, further reducing the load on the engine. I average 40 mpg around town and 45 on the freeway. I don't shut my motor off while driving but when coming to a light I will shift to neutral to increase the coating distance to the light.

I plan to replace the Tercel with a Yaris. Hoping I can get similar mileage.

[KillTheHumans]

I plan to replace the Tercel with a Yaris. Hoping I can get similar mileage.

The best mileage I've ever gotten were with 80's era Honda Civic's, a regular 86, 4cylinder, 4 speed, no A/C, which could return a solid 50mpg at <65mph, and a Honda Civic CRX HF ( before it became just the Honda CRX ) which would return a solid 50-55mpg as well.

Its terrible we can't do similar with modern auto's. Although I've got a Camry 5 sp manual which returns a solid 36mpg at 80mph+. I have expectations of 38-40mpg if I slow down to 65mph or so, eastern US flatlander type speeds.