THE Hydrogen Thread pt 3 (merged)

by **americandream** » Sat 03 Apr 2010, 00:11:59

As well as erectile dysfunction.

PrestonSturges wrote:Crystals made of pixie dust. All the flavor, half the calories, and it fights tooth decay.

by **Graeme** » Sun 18 Apr 2010, 23:55:06

Hydrogen fuel cells hailed as “game changing”

Hydrogen fuel cell developer AFC Energy has revealed it is developing a 50kW hydrogen fuel cell which it claims will improve the base load of power coming from waste to energy plants and carbon capture and storage (CCS) projects.

The Surrey-based company said this week that the 50kW cell, which works by feeding air and hydrogen into a cell containing electrodes to create a chemical reaction, producing electricity, heat and water heated to around 70 degrees Celsius, should be completed in 2011.

The chief executive of AFC Energy, Ian Balchin, explained: "We are part of a transition of technologies. Some renewable sources of energy are intermittent, such as wind, and therefore there are times when there will be too much power and times when there will be too little power, so in order to level the load many of these technologies are looking at ways to store the electricity.

"Our fuel cells work a bit like an open battery, constantly being provided with a fuel - hydrogen."
According to AFC, converting hydrogen to electricity has an energy efficiency rating of between 55-60%.

newenergyfocus

by **ian807** » Mon 19 Apr 2010, 13:39:25

Yeah, uh, let me know when I or anyone else can actually buy one.

by **Timo** » Wed 21 Apr 2010, 12:07:29

A real game changer would be the invention of a fuel cell that could funtion from the gas given off by my compost pile. I'd rake all my leaves every fall down into my basement and into a gas-tight container hooked up to my fuel cell, hook that up to my brand new Fisker, drive that down to my local utility company, and laugh in the CEOs face. THAT would be a real game changer, and i'll believe it when i see it. Any guess as to when i can start making these necessary investments?

by **dinopello** » Wed 21 Apr 2010, 12:33:46

Timo wrote:A real game changer would be the invention of a fuel cell that could funtion from the gas given off by my compost pile. I'd rake all my leaves every fall down into my basement and into a gas-tight container hooked up to my fuel cell, hook that up to my brand new Fisker, drive that down to my local utility company, and laugh in the CEOs face. THAT would be a real game changer, and i'll believe it when i see it. Any guess as to when i can start making these necessary investments?

Office of Naval Research is demonstrating a microbial Fuel cell tomorrow. Is that kind of the similar ?

"Think of it as a battery that runs on mud," ONR Program Manager Dr. Linda Chrisey said.

by **dinopello** » Wed 21 Apr 2010, 17:18:27

pstarr wrote:
"Think of it as a battery that runs on mud," ONR Program Manager Dr. Linda Chrisey said.
And it would have all the embodied energy of mud. Mud is entropic waste product, reduced matter waiting for plants, photosynthesis, and the energy of the sun to bring the mud back to life.

Reanimate that mud!

And the roads are covered with a million
Little molecules
Of cigarette ashes and the school floors are covered
With pieces of pencil eraser too
Well sooner or later the ground's gonna be holdin' all
Of my ashes too
But I can't help but wonder if after I'm gone will I still have these three hundred mile per
hour, finger breaking, no answers makin', battered dirty hands, bee stung and busted up, empty
cup torrential outpour blues

by **Niagara** » Wed 21 Apr 2010, 17:44:23

"Game changer" gets my vote for most hated buzz-phrase of the 2000's

Runners up:

by **MSkalaBoy** » Sat 01 May 2010, 05:49:42

Timo wrote:A real game changer would be the invention of a fuel cell that could funtion from the gas given off by my compost pile. I'd rake all my leaves every fall down into my basement and into a gas-tight container hooked up to my fuel cell, hook that up to my brand new Fisker, drive that down to my local utility company, and laugh in the CEOs face. THAT would be a real game changer, and i'll believe it when i see it. Any guess as to when i can start making these necessary investments?

There is a company called Waste2Tricity which has an exclusive licence to use these fuel cells for gasification applications and Energy From Waste projects. So although it will be unlikely that you will be able to hook one of these fuel cells up to your own personal composting container, these fuel cells have the potential to be used in industrial scale applications to generate electricity from the contents of your compost pile. See the website below for more details:

http://waste2tricity.com/

by MD » Sat 01 May 2010, 06:20:11

Graeme wrote:According to AFC, converting hydrogen to electricity has an energy efficiency rating of between 55-60%.

Not so good.

by **MSkalaBoy** » Sat 01 May 2010, 06:38:09

MD wrote:
Graeme wrote:According to AFC, converting hydrogen to electricity has an energy efficiency rating of between 55-60%.

Not so good.

It's a hell of a lot more efficient than the traditional IGCC process which uses Combined Cycle Gas Turbines. Perhaps you should do some more research before you come out with meaningless comments like that. This might be a good start:

http://www.b9coal.com/dl/b9-coal-presen ... ber-09.pdf

by **Googolplex** » Tue 04 May 2010, 04:17:19

Yeah, sure, its a free lunch.

Technically, so is a ketchup packet from a burger joint. Hope you live a VERY low energy lifestyle. :cry:

by **EnergyUnlimited** » Tue 04 May 2010, 04:22:37

TheAntiDoomer wrote:Crystals + sound + water = clean hydrogen fuel

Must be dilithium crystals. :-D

by **Graeme** » Wed 12 May 2010, 20:29:45

Top 5 hydrogen states in the US

Washington fuel cell promotion organisation Fuel Cells 2000 has released a report about fuel cells in the US, called "State of the States: Fuel Cells in America" (link to download full report below).

In the report, it estimates that over 630 companies in the US are active in the fuel cell and related industry, and investing around $1bn a year.

It mentions the states of California, Connecticut, New York and South Carolina as being leaders in promoting fuel cells.

h2journal

by **TheAntiDoomer** » Tue 20 Sep 2011, 08:21:06

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 151317.htm

A grain of salt or two may be all that microbial electrolysis cells need to produce hydrogen from wastewater or organic byproducts, without adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere or using grid electricity, according to Penn State engineers.

"This system could produce hydrogen anyplace that there is wastewater near sea water," said Bruce E. Logan, Kappe Professor of Environmental Engineering. "It uses no grid electricity and is completely carbon neutral. It is an inexhaustible source of energy."

by **diemos** » Tue 20 Sep 2011, 08:37:46

TheAntiDoomer wrote:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110919151317.htm

A grain of salt or two may be all that microbial electrolysis cells need to produce hydrogen from wastewater or organic byproducts, without adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere or using grid electricity, according to Penn State engineers.

"This system could produce hydrogen anyplace that there is wastewater near sea water," said Bruce E. Logan, Kappe Professor of Environmental Engineering. "It uses no grid electricity and is completely carbon neutral. It is an inexhaustible source of energy."

You would expect better science from something that calls itself science daily. The energy source that drives this is the sun which converts seawater to fresh water through the hydrological cycle. When the fresh water re-enters the sea you can extract energy from the salinity gradient. The amount of energy you can extract is limited by the rate of fresh water flowing into the sea but yes, it is inexhaustible as long as the sun shines. It's just nowhere near enough to power civilization as we currently know it.

by **ian807** » Tue 20 Sep 2011, 11:02:30

Wow. Another "New discovery of an inefficient solar energy collection system using [seawater, algae, corn, etc.] whose output is [hydrogen, hydrocarbon lipids, alcohol] which doesn't scale and whose EROEI is either barely over 1, or sometimes less."

Quite unique (ahem).

by **PrestonSturges** » Tue 20 Sep 2011, 11:14:21

Actually that's pretty interesting. If you were to dismantle many metabolic systems you would not see much output, because you'd be lacking some coenzyme, ion, or some redox cofactor. But those biological systems are often much more efficient than any laboratory equivalent (anyone growing wood in a test tube using only air, water, and sunlight? Not that I know of.) So combining a fuel cell and bioreactor sounds promising.

by MD » Tue 20 Sep 2011, 12:18:33

It's another 5% solution. We'll need more in the mix, unless the magic solution appears.

by **vaseline2008** » Tue 20 Sep 2011, 12:33:51

Logan and Kim's research used platinum as a catalyst on the cathode, but subsequent experimentation showed that a non-precious metal catalyst, molybdenum sulfide, had a 51 percent energy efficiency. The King Abdullah University of Science and Technology supported this work.

It's not just all salt water and fresh water after all...so platinum or molybdenum are "inexhaustible" resources also?