[TheDude]

Commentor at Green Car Congress sez:

I've personal inside info with a friend @ Ford Motor Corp....she told me a few months ago that the New Ford F150/Hydraulic Hybrid will be rolled out on time....for the 2009 model year as promised after full testing is done for reliablity testing.....release date of the truck will be in Sept or Oct 2008 and will be the 2009 model year.....I"ve heard it averages 60mpg.....that's how America will beat the Bad Guys....with what most of you don't believe in nor understand.....American ingenuity......

"Bad Guys"? Posted on Nov 10, 2007.

[yesplease]

As an electro-mechanical engineer, I can't help but feel this is a greenwash hoax. First, hydraulic fluids don't compress, so you can't 'store' energy in a hydraulic cylinder, unless you use height, like in a hydro plant. Second, the weight and high drag coefficient of an F-150 combine to make it near impossible to create a 60 mpg powerplant that will have the ability to attain highway speeds and acceleration to the same under 60 seconds.

Supposedly the 60mpg claim was for city only. FWIW, if they really did make a truck with stop/start functionality, a CVT, and better energy storage than battery (NiMH) electric hybrids, 60mpg over the EPA city test at the time the articles released isn't very far out of line with what's possible since the truck's horrendous drag coefficient doesn't play nearly as much of a part, and if the EPA reports about the increase in fuel efficiency from this system in a diesel box truck are valid, then it is more efficient than a energy storage in batteries. In any event, 25-30% BTE should be good enough for one of these things to see 60mpg over the old EPA city cycle. As for whether the claims are valid, that remains to be seen.

[steam_cannon]

The hydraulic hybrid uses a cylinder with a bladder and nitrogen
bubble in it that the hydraulic fluid compresses to store energy.
Otherwise the system works much like a battery storage device,
except that the hydraulic hybrid is more efficient for larger vehicles.
When braking, the regenerative brake can generate a lot of energy
that would need to be stored to recover the energy from braking.
However, electric batteries are poor at storing a lot of energy quickly,
especially for larger vehicles. Hydraulic hybrids are capable of storing
a lot of instantaneous energy, hence it is more appropriate for larger vehicles.

Hybrids technology can double or even triple the fuel economy of even very large vehicles,
[s]which can save the day post oil peak.[/s]

A good description, though I don't fully agree with the last part.
You're right that technologies like this can make a big difference.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EPA pioneering hybrid patents

"The hydraulics then add power to or take power away from that
drivetrain. With a series system, we get rid of the transmission and
drivetrain — it's just hydraulics. The engine is now disconnected
from the wheels. This allows us to run the engine at the sweet
spot, and shut the engine off more readily when it's not needed."
Kargul sees series systems as the next generation hybrids.

http://tinyurl.com/6xxllx

[web]http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/IndZone/RailTrucking/Article/False/11985/IndZone-RailTrucking[/web]

[mos6507]

It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.

I am not sure you meant this for me or for people in general. I live 1.5 miles from work and ride my bike each way to and from work. Me and my wife are putting in a ground source heat pump for heating/cooling the house, and heating the hot water. Despite the actions I take, I want more energy efficient means for moving food from the farms to the city where I live. I am pleased that our office is on the cutting edge of hybrid technology as it gives us hope that we will be able to function post oil peak.

What are you doing?

Retsel

[vaseline2008]

I think some are mis-understanding. The addition of new ideas/concepts to an already existing product is really what this is all about. Take for example the radio, over time we have added media players (tape decks, CD players, etc...) and "enhanced" it. This is just another one of those things...to make the existing product "better".

One other thing that one can not ignore is that change happens gradually, not overnight. The invention of the CD didn't mean we all bought CD players and threw out our Cassette Tapes (some of you probably don't even know what this is let alone an "8-track"). There was a time when TVs didn't have remotes. This is just another example of "trying to make it better", I say more power to them. Let's review some points:

1. The storage cylinders that get compressed upon braking will offer resistance of some sort - this helps in slowing down the vehicle in addition to the brakes. This means less wear on the entire braking system (ever have to replace your brakes on your car?)
2. Additonal weight due to the added "parts" can be offset by a smaller engine which uses less fuel.
3. The most amount of fuel is used to "accelerate" a vehicle up to cruising speeds. Doesn't GM offer some system where the 8 cylinder engine shuts off 4 of the cylinders to improve fuel economy during cruising speeds? From what I know garbage trucks very seldom do any sort of highway driving, mostly door-to-door neighborhood service. Remember (with the exception of some current hybrid models) that City mileage always is less than HWY mileage claims on cars. This is the "300%" (3x, 10mpg v 30mpg) improvement.
4. Here in Southern California, our freeways are pretty much "stop and go" most of the day...only hours where there is "no traffic" is sometime between 3am and 6am. The rest of the day is "Rush Hour".
5. This idea was NOT intended to get rid of the ICE, just help the current situation, kind of like what Hamburger Helper does for your bland hamburger meat.

Proponents of this system claim that 80% of the kinetic energy is re-claimed, however with a "smart transmission" system that would optimize the gear ratio, during braking it would be in "high" gear and during acceleration it would be in "low" gear, that may help improve the efficiency of the system even in spite of the fact that adding more components to any system weighs it down and therefore loses efficiency.

Now if this "pressurized drive" system is coupled with an electric car (preferably the Tesla), the ICE may be eliminated.

Now for the kicker - does anyone know what happens to a tank that is pressurized to 3000psi and it explodes? Afterall, we do get in car accidents...

[heroineworshipper]

Hydrolic Hybrids sound almost as good as last year's silicon nanotube breakthrough.

[wisconsin_cur]

Farmers in the Indian state of Rajasthan are rediscovering the humble camel.

As the cost of running gas-guzzling tractors soars, even-toed ungulates are making a comeback, raising hopes that a fall in the population of the desert state’s signature animal can be reversed.

“It’s excellent for the camel population if the price of oil continues to go up because demand for camels will also go up,” says Ilse Kohler-Rollefson of the League for Pastoral Peoples and Endogenous Livestock Development. “Two years ago, a camel cost little more than a goat, which is nothing. The price has since trebled.”

The shift comes not a moment too soon for a national camel population that has fallen more than 50 per cent over the past decade, to about 450,000, according to government figures.

Market prices for these “ships of the desert”, which crashed with the growing affordability of motorised transport, are rising again as oil prices soar.

FT.com

[manu]

Yes, and the next animals that will make a comeback will be the oxen, and horses.

[misterno]

woow doomers were right

[alokin]

there is a big problem: all animals need food and as population grew a lot we don't have grass land left over for feeding all those animals.

But besides: what special requirements do camels have? I reckon they dislike warm and humid climates.

[AlexdeLarge]

Good Morning !

Considering buying the 2008 Prius. Whats your thoughts in todays market? Toyota does not have to bargain at all in this market as people are trading in their SUV's to go to a more fuel efficient vehicle.

Considerations are that SUV's are dropping in value, and demand plus cost of raw materials is growing....cost/price of Prius is going up!

However, there may be some new tax incentives this year and detroit is finally gearing up to go into the market in a big way. (Maybe still three years out.) Honda is also making new plans.

Would it be worth waiting for the new lythium ion battery technology and plug in features.( 2010 models) I also don't think that the 08 Prius can use flexfuel. Therefore, my thoughts of making my own ethanol at home would go down the drain.

Any thoughts???

Thanks!

[Cashmere]

My thoughts:

Your thinking seems scattered.

With regard to your comment:

"Toyota does not have to bargain at all in this market as people are trading in their SUV's to go to a more fuel efficient vehicle. "

If you believe that, then you're a sucker, but no fears - so are most people.

[AlexdeLarge]

A Sucker to buy a Prius?

A Sucker to buy a Prius in this market??

A Sucker to think Toyota will not bargain???

[Cashmere]

A sucker for thinking that car dealers won't deal.

[AlexdeLarge]

LOL Go to a Toyota Dealership today. You must have more clout than me !!

You will find out that due to high demand, there is a waiting list a Prius. They do not have to drop price. Also, low milage vehicles are dropping in value as the market for SUV's drys up. I don't see this changing soon, unless new players come into the market increasing supply of hybrids.

So if price on a Prius is fixed in the current market........you must consider other factors on making a buy decision. Sale price of your current vehicle, raw material cost and greater demand driving hybrid sale prices higher. Savings in fuel costs between current vehicle and a hybrid. Tax consideratiosn etc.

[GeoJAP]

I understand your reasoning. You are trying to be thorough and consider all facets of the issue. I sold a truck last year and bought a Toyota Matrix. If plug-in cars with a range of 100+ miles existed, I would have bought one of those. I consider hybrids to be a short-lived technology for commuter cars, as plug-in cars will be available soon. I would have preferred to have a plug-in car, but decided to buy an efficient gas car in the interim until an acceptable plug-in solution is made available. I hope that helps.

[AlexdeLarge]

Thanks Geo!

I would rather wait for the plug In's too, but I'm thinking that it will be at least 4 to 5 years before they have the kinks worked out. Meanwhile, if oil isn't peaking.....it sure is plateauing! Demand destruction will not be enough here in the States to offset increasing demand in Asia. Therefore, prices will continue to rise.

Currently, I will take a hit on a trade in and pay a primium for a prius...but at $3.75/gal I can still save $150.00/month in fuel cost. That will increase as fuel prices go up and if I increase my driving.

lots of factors to consider!

[peasea]

Thanks Geo!

I would rather wait for the plug In's too, but I'm thinking that it will be at least 4 to 5 years before they have the kinks worked out. Meanwhile, if oil isn't peaking.....it sure is plateauing! Demand destruction will not be enough here in the States to offset increasing demand in Asia. Therefore, prices will continue to rise.

Currently, I will take a hit on a trade in and pay a primium for a prius...but at $3.75/gal I can still save $150.00/month in fuel cost. That will increase as fuel prices go up and if I increase my driving.

lots of factors to consider!

welcome AlexdeLarge,

in the current climate a scooter may be better , 50cc give 100mpg+

if you need a car for famaly , carrying capacity , etc then factor in the size required smaller cars , at least in Europe , can give 70mpg, which is good ( but prepare to be flamed for not riding a push bike ).

cheers

P.

[GeoJAP]

My decision was based primarily on financial reasons. I owned a Toyota Tundra (paid off). I was spending about $320/month on gas when it was $3/gallon.

I traded in the Tundra and got a Toyota Matrix. My gas usage was cut in half. My monthly payment on the Matrix was $170 after trade in. With gas at $3/gallon, the new set up was basically a wash as far as the monthly budget is concerned until the Matrix is paid off. So the more efficient car paid for itself.

[skyemoor]

You might want to see if you can pre-order a 2009 Prius; many claims to fuel economy in the 70-94 mpg range.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/ca ... ch-94-MPG/