[AgentR11]

Beijing.. forced. Ya.
If HK does not want to be an asset to the PRC, the PRC will be content to have it be a desolate, uninhabitable rock.

Fortunately, things won't go that far. There will be no color revolution. There will be no forcing anything. The PLA will obey the command of Beijing, if Beijing says, "clear the streets", the streets will be cleared. If 100,000 need die in the process; then 100,000 will die. If 10,000,000 need die in the process, 10,000,000 will die. HK people know this. The idiots on the street will scatter when the first mob of them is squished under tank treads running full throttle into downtown.

There won't be a Tienanmen hesitation moment with a lone guy standing in front of a tank. The tank won't even slow down.

No, what is most likely is that the protests will go on for a week or few, the cops will start arresting chunks of them, a thousand here, a thousand there; they'll be shipped to spend their time and have their trials in NW China, far away from anything, they might even get lucky and get to work in Siberia doing grunt work for pipeline construction for 5 cents a day for a few years.

Eventually the streets will clear, and nothing interesting will be noted in the history of China. The West will be outraged... and Xi will smirk.

[Sixstrings]

Nice post Keith, there's some news in that article, Confederation of Trade Unions on strike in support of the protests:

This repressive turn by police backfired, as normally passive and apolitical Hong Kong residents poured out to support the embattled young protesters, bringing them food, medical supplies and water, and even standing and facing police along with the students and occupy activists.

Then today, in a big development, the Hong Kong trade union movement joined the protests, with the Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions, the only independent labor union in China, calling on its members to go on strike in support of the students and activists.

Three major unions in the confederation, representing beverage workers, teachers and dockworkers, walked off their jobs in response to the call.

This is a powerful movement, and one that clearly has China’s leaders sweating.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/30/us-refuses-to-back-democracy-activists-in-hong-kong/

[Sixstrings]

So anyhow, yeah Keith you're right about Harper and his tepid response regarding Hong Kong. And Obama, too.

If they do turn the tanks on a million kids protesting in the street, will Harper have anything to say then? Or still silence? What a sight that will be, him going on about Ukraine and maybe a major humanitarian catastrophe in Hong Kong.

Maybe world leaders should say something now, before it gets too bad.

But they're all silent, every one of them.

How about Australia? SILENT -- as usual -- the Aussies couldn't stand up out of a wet paper bag, to China, so nothing new there.

And where is the United Kingdom, the mother country to so many that were British subjects not too long ago? And they still fly union jacks in their protests, and their protest signs are in English -- so where are the British in this?

They're nowhere, they're silent, nada, nothin', just like Canada.

That one is particularly wrong. UK has a special responsibility to speak up on this, it was Britain that handed these people over to the communists to start with, and Britain is supposed to be watching that China lives up to the promises it made in 1997.

[Keith_McClary]

Critic of Hong Kong's Umbrella Revolution Waits for a Backlash
Bloomberg Businessweek

Hong Kong’s Umbrella Revolution is winning fans worldwide. In addition to supporting the student-led movement’s call for democracy in Hong Kong, admirers like the way the civil disobedience movement is so well behaved, with young people picking up litter and doing their homework. Slate calls them “the world’s politest protesters.”

Robert Chow sees things differently. A retired journalist, he is the spokesman for two groups opposed to the occupation of major parts of the city: Silent Majority for Hong Kong and the Alliance for Peace & Democracy, an umbrella group (although that term suddenly has a different meaning in Hong Kong) that includes Silent Majority as well as the leading pro-Beijing political party and several chambers of commerce among its members. With many schools shut, key thoroughfares blocked, and some shops closed, Hong Kong is going to see a backlash, he argues. “People are peeved off by the whole thing,” Chow says. “It’s really like a hostage situation.”

Although some businesses are suffering, there’s not much evidence of that anger yet in the streets of Central and other areas occupied by the pro-democracy protests. But just wait, says Chow. “If it goes on for one week, two weeks, people are really going to feel the pain.”

In August, the alliance organized a march to protest Occupy Central’s plans. Organizers said 193,000 people took part, although the University of Hong Kong’s Public Opinion Program estimated attendance at 88,000. There was also a petition drive that Chow says collected 1.5 million signatures.

Yet now that the occupation is under way, he’s not making any plans to rally all those people to launch an Umbrella Counterrevolution. “Confrontation at this moment is going to be bad for Hong Kong,” says Chow. “We want people to come to their senses.” The best strategy might be patience, according to Chow, and to wait for people to want life in the city to return to normal. His advice to Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying: “Just hang on. It may be the best tactic.”

[Sixstrings]

Critic of Hong Kong's Umbrella Revolution Waits for a Backlash

Oh, Keith, so here we go, you're backstopping Beijing now? Against protesters?

That article you just linked, you may as well join the conservative party, posting things from "the man" like that.

"These kids out protesting, it's bad for business." Sounds like the 1960s.

TPTB would LIKE there to be a backlash, sure, but that's just a narrative. Elites assuming everyone just agrees with them. The reality: the HK gov is going to crack down eventually, and when they do, more will join the protests. Same as Ukraine.

[Sixstrings]

They're starting to play dirty.

Was watching MSNBC and a Forbes Asia journalist said that apparently Beijing and the Hong Kong government got in cahoots to set the Triad mafia loose on some peaceful protesters.

It didn't work. The mafia broke up 100 protesters, and then 1,000 returned.

Hong Kong protests: Police arrest 'triad gang' members
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-29488002

[Keith_McClary]

Critic of Hong Kong's Umbrella Revolution Waits for a Backlash

Oh, Keith, so here we go, you're backstopping Beijing now? Against protesters?

The article just points out what they are up against. Like the Occupy movement in the US.

[Sixstrings]

The article just points out what they are up against. Like the Occupy movement in the US.

Well, do you have an opinion? Do you wish these protesters success? If nobody ever stood up to get some rights then nobody would ever have any rights.

[Keith_McClary]

The article just points out what they are up against. Like the Occupy movement in the US.

Well, do you have an opinion? Do you wish these protesters success? If nobody ever stood up to get some rights then nobody would ever have any rights.

Yes, and Occupy Wall Street also. Did you go out and support OWS?

[Sixstrings]

Did you go out and support OWS?

Yes, I did! I held a sign that read "reinstate Glass–Steagall." Only protest I've ever been to in my life. Was interesting. Just 30 people showing up at a designated location and nobody knew each other, and just heard about it on the internet.

Most of the cars that drove by honked and waved. If I recall, 3 people gave me the middle finger. Maybe they thought my sign said something else, I realize now that "Glass-Steagall" may be hard to understand at 50mph.

There were no drum circles nor dope smoking, nor any far out OWS hippie hand-signal group kumbaya direct democracy thingies, and the fuzz didn't show up to beat anybody.

[Sixstrings]

Forbes article contrasting Hong Kong with Ukraine:

Unlike Ukraine, The Hong Kong Protests Will Almost Certainly Fail

Ukraine’s Euromaidan protests—taking place in Kiev from November 21, 2013 to February 22, 2014—aimed to break Ukraine out of Vladimir Putin’s sphere of influence. They succeeded, although how well depends on the West’s response to Putin’s ferocious counterattack. Hong Kong’s Democracy protests (August 31—?) are being carried out by Hong Kong students protesting for a semblance of freedom from the autocratic control of Communist China under its flawed “one country, two systems” formula. These demonstrations were sparked by China’s reneging on its promise to restore the democratic election of the Hong Kong governor by 2017.

Unlike Ukraine, the Hong Kong protests will almost certainly fail. Euromaidan was a rare exception of success carried out under more propitious circumstances. The questions for Hong Kong are: how soon will the demonstrations be put down and at what cost in terms of blood and loss of economic freedom?

The parallels between Euromaidan and Hong Kong’s Umbrella Revolution (so called because demonstrators carry umbrellas) have not gone unnoticed in China. Chinese commentators dismiss what they call Maidanocracy as “the rule of the square, from the infamous Maidan in central Kiev where the Ukrainian protests began. If carried out to its full extent, it will not end well for Hong Kong.” The Communist Party of China’s (CPC) fear of Maidanocracy is reflected in its complete news blackouts of both Maidan and the Umbrella Revolution. In its official diplomatic pronouncements, China has followed the Russian line that no government established by the mob rule of Maidanocracy is legitimate. Inherent in this claim is that both Russia and China are ruled by legitimate regimes, whose overthrow would be illegal and contrary to international law.

...

Perhaps the most important lesson from Maidan for the CPC is that violence perversely increases the number and intensity of demonstrators. In downtown Kiev, the deaths of some hundred demonstrators earned them “heavenly hundred” martyrdom and forced the regime to flee. We have already seen something of the same phenomenon in Hong Kong. The use of pepper spray, tear gas, and some head knocking has so far brought larger crowds to the streets.

No matter how great the dedication and enthusiasm, the Umbrella Revolution will fail. President Xi Jinping has made his hardliner credentials a hallmark of his young regime. He could never back down on an issue as important as the control of Hong Kong. Most likely, he will wait to see if the demonstrations peter out by themselves. Only if he feels he has no alternative will he resort to the PLA, who might welcome the chance to take it out on “spoiled” Hong Kong students.

Such a crackdown will have costs. China has worked hard over the years to create the image of a benevolent one-party technocracy, which makes rational economic and political decisions. This image, it hopes, will outweigh the reality of extreme domestic repression, suppression of the media, ethnic and religious persecution, and territorial adventurism.

Regimes like China’s CPC and Russia’s Putin abhor Maidanocracy. Even though blood on the streets of Hong Kong would damage China’s image for years to come, any failure to stop the Umbrella Revolution would mean “rule of the square.” And that is intolerable.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/10/06/unlike-ukraine-the-hong-kong-protests-will-almost-certainly-fail/

[Withnail]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/mai ... d=27523791



Shortly after 2 p.m. local time, police surrounded the protest site and marched slowly in a line formation, pushing past and tearing down tents and belongings for the dump trucks that followed behind. Many of the protesters had already packed up and left the site before the police curfew, leaving behind a largely empty protest village.

[SeaGypsy]

Can you say more than this? Putting a headline containing the words you have, then linking an article which says nothing of the sort, then saying nothing about your choice of headline? Makes you look like a nutter.

[Withnail]

Can you say more than this? Putting a headline containing the words you have, then linking an article which says nothing of the sort, then saying nothing about your choice of headline? Makes you look like a nutter.

the protest camps were removed by police today, the streets are clear and the protest is over.

what more is there to say.

[GHung]

At least we can be certain that Withnail doesn't work for the MSS (Chinese Ministry of State Security). He's too dumb, and they're too busy spying on everyone else. Maybe Withnail needs to stick with reading Spy vs Spy in his vintage Mad Magazines; free speech at its best.

[Withnail]

At least we can be certain that Withnail doesn't work for the MSS (Chinese Ministry of State Security). He's too dumb, and they're too busy spying on everyone else. Maybe Withnail needs to stick with reading Spy vs Spy in his vintage Mad Magazines; free speech at its best.

Don't violate forum rules by insulting other posters please.

[SeaGypsy]

It's ok to insult the CIA & China, as you do in your headline, with squat to back it up & nothing to even say about why you said it? Are you an adult?

[Withnail]

It's ok to insult the CIA & China, as you do in your headline, with squat to back it up & nothing to even say about why you said it? Are you an adult?

Are the CIA members of this forum?

If not, I haven't violated forum rules.

And I didn't insult China. I implicitly complimented China on their action against these traitors.

Are you disputing that these 'protestors' are CIA backed? Is that the problem?

Of course they are. This was already discussed on the other thread.

[SeaGypsy]

So why start another thread, drongo?

[Withnail]

So why start another thread, drongo?

Please cease violating forum rules.