[SeaGypsy]

I just get tired of arguing with children. I'm ok thanks. Now off to school dear and don't forget your sandwichs

[Lore]

I just get tired of arguing with children. I'm ok thanks. Now off to school dear and don't forget your sandwichs

Snappy adult comback.

[dohboi]

SG wrote: "It's pretty broadly accepted that languages like Murin Patha are the oldest surviving languages in the world."

All languages (except made up ones, and by some analyses, pidgins and creoles) are equally old, so your statement as worded here does not make sense and would certainly not be "broadly accepted" by linguists.

That said, these cultures are precious heritages, and I envy you the opportunity of working closely with them.

If I could distract you from your sniping with lore for a moment, what do you see as the most important lessons these folks can teach the rest of us, from your experience among them?

[SeaGypsy]

SG wrote: "It's pretty broadly accepted that languages like Murin Patha are the oldest surviving languages in the world."

All languages (except made up ones, and by some analyses, pidgins and creoles) are equally old, so your statement as worded here does not make sense and would certainly not be "broadly accepted" by linguists.

That said, these cultures are precious heritages, and I envy you the opportunity of working closely with them.

If I could distract you from your sniping with lore for a moment, what do you see as the most important lessons these folks can teach the rest of us, from your experience among them?

1st I don't see how it can be argued that Pidgin or Creole (which are directly the result of relatively recent colonisations of indigenous peoples) are in any way equal to ancient pure languages. I speak both Northern Australian Creole (don't tell me there's no such thing, there is even a translation of the bible in it) and Centralian Pidgin. These developed as working languages between the white settlers and local indigenous peoples. These are of almost no help at all when it comes to learning the original languages. There are approximately 170 surviving languages of an original 500 plus in Australia; some are only spoken by a few dozen people. Murin Patha is used by about 3,000 people and has only ever been mastered by a handfull of outsiders. It's age is unknown. There are 5 languages spoken within 50 miles of here; Murin Patha is by far the strongest and most likely to survive.

These people are not particularly interested in teaching 'us' anything. It takes time to earn their trust and most people coming here don't last long enough or make the effort. It is too easy to dismiss the culture on face value because of the absolute filth the majority of people here live in with not a care in the world about what anyone else thinks about them The vast majority of aboriginal people here don't give a damn about white society or it's expectations of them.

The aboriginals I have worked with across a vast area of northern and central Australia are extremely socialistic. They share everything without question. There is no 'I' outside of 'we'. They feel that since the 'dreamtime' they have been on a descent culminating in whitefella's arrival. They feel that when (not if) we go they will be able to reconnect with the ancestors and go back to what they have always done; which is contrary to whitefella thinking in every way. The 'dreaming' says that by acts of selfishness and foolishness the people fell from a spiritual base to the material. The effort of the culture is to ascend to the spiritual platform again; to the rightfull place. This is of course a common theme in many other cultures around the globe, particularly Hinduism and even the Ibrahamic religions. The modern culture we have brought along is irrelavent. There is a broad acceptance the 'That Jesus fella was on our side, a goodfella' lip service to Christianity.

There is no agricultural culture here at all besides that introduced by the invaders. Since the advent of social security, local agriculture promoted by missionaries has almost completly died away. The people get their social security checks and royalty payments and blow them in a day or 2, sharing everything. When they have nothing left they go hunting for 'bush tucker'. Bush tucker is revered. It is the grail of the people here still and is treated with utmost respect; where the whitefella tucker is consumed with an air of disdain.

If you want to be like an aboriginal: share everything you have with no thought for the future, live in the moment and for the day, take as a given that the rewards and punishments in your life come from pleasing or displeasing the ancestors and spirit people, expect and anticipate the demise of modernity, be ready to walk away from all the trappings of modernity and return to nomadic hunter gathering.

Because 99.9% of whitefellas think this is crazy there is not much respect between the 2 cultures on the ground in the communities. It is easy to find urban dreamers who think this is a nice fantasy but in reality when they come here and try to live and understand it, the vast majority fade away quietly and quickly. To survive in this culture you have to be a 'hard bastard' with an excellent sense of humour; otherwise you are screwed.

As for sniping with Lore, I just get annoyed with people preaching from ivory towers about what they saw on 'the news' who have obviously spent no time at all anywhere with any indigenous people. There is too much of this in the world and I am sick of it. Those who are interested should go and get to know one or more of these old cultures. Those who are not interested can just shut up fo all I care, their opinions are not worth 2 cents to me or to the people I work with.

[dohboi]

"share everything you have with no thought for the future, live in the moment and for the day, take as a given that the rewards and punishments in your life come from pleasing or displeasing the ancestors and spirit people, expect and anticipate the demise of modernity, be ready to walk away from all the trappings of modernity and return to nomadic hunter gathering."

Thanks. The first part does sound a bit like some of the preachings of that Jesus fella, the parts most X'n assiduously ignore.

You have my (at least) great envy that you have had both the inclination and fortitude (and humor) to follow this path.

[SeaGypsy]

I am the kind of person who rates extremely high on standard stress tests but wouldn't have it any other way. I am very easily bored, particularly by mainstream culture. I call provincial Philippines home, I work in remote Australia, I spend about 5% of my time in Darwin and haven't been out of the tropics in many years. I laugh very easily and have cried once in the last 25 years.

I love being here. It's really another world. I love the freedom of the bush here and the freedom of the wacky system in the Philippines.

Anyone who really wants to check out living with indigenous people should do it. You may be one of the 1% who can not only handle it but really enjoy it.

I am slowly writing a book or series of essays about my experience with indigenous Australians over the last 40 years; if it is ever finished and published peakoil.com will hear about it, don't worry.

[dohboi]

Please do let us know when you are ready to share it, or any parts.

[SeaGypsy]

When I get enough time off and my wife gets used to the fact she married a writer; it will happen. Anyone who knows anything about Australia over the last couple of years would know we have a thing called "The emergency intervention on aboriginal communities in the Northern Territory". It's been a hodge podge of mismanagement and a lot of grist for the mill, so to speak. Plus I am subject to both privacy laws and traditional customary law as an employee and adopted Warlpiri. It is a very complex project to write well.