[Cog]

If one of you ever touched my child you would pray that I would kill you before i was finished. Thank God that none of you are in charge of this country or of me. Castrating children, killing children,you guys need some serious psychological help.

[onlooker]

I think the testosterone matter is germane to the OP, is so much as we cannot probably do too much about how genetics considering we will probably fall a number of notches down technologically and scientifically after the collapse. I am one of those and I have already stated my position, that I believe nurture is far more influential then nature. I will give the analogy of a fancy car like a jaguar. If one is on a nice open highway one will be tempted to drive it to the max utilizing its impressive steering and horse drive. On the other hand if one finds oneself on a dirt and cobble road one would be very circumspect about unleashing the full might and properties of the car. Well in the same way if a group like the Emphatic Humans structures its community in a way that is strictly pacifist, enlightened and spiritual, the chances of the inherent testosterone drives of the male coming out in full bloom are much less. I would add that said group would if wise give equal power to women who tend to be more nurturing, docile and gentle. So the cultural environment would be key to establishing a group that is more evolved and less prone to outbursts of emotion or driven by base impulses.

[Tanada]

If one of you ever touched my child you would pray that I would kill you before i was finished. Thank God that none of you are in charge of this country or of me. Castrating children, killing children,you guys need some serious psychological help.

Calm yourself, I am speculating about a possible culture hundreds of years in the future that view castration at birth the same way Muslims, Jews and many other religions view circumcision at birth or shortly thereafter. Eunuchs have been a measurable percentage of many different cultures throughout history from the Ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Chinese and on and on. Some cultures actually favored Eunuchs over males for the reason that they were more calm and rational and quite capable as either soldiers or administrators.

[SeaGypsy]

Since population is actually more of a problem than testosterone, it's women need neutering not men. One man can service the reproductive needs of thousands, even millions of women, so you could remove 99.9% of males completely & still get overpopulation. The idea of monogamy surviving 80% male sterilization is pretty far fetched.

[davep]

One man can service the reproductive needs of thousands, even millions of women

I'd get my ticker checked first

[onlooker]

Yes got to interject this relevant to Sea comments. Genghis Khan was known to have sired children from thousands of women. I think, though that Tanada also chose men so as to quell their aggressive instincts via castration and subsequent testosterone deficiency.

[SeaGypsy]

The technology has come a long way since the great Khan. With modern technology he would have sired all the children.

[SeaGypsy]

One man can service the reproductive needs of thousands, even millions of women

I'd get my ticker checked first [emoji38]

All you need to do is produce sperm Dave, we can have it drawn out with modern safe procedures & your heart wouldn't even notice, bit like bear bile.

[Tanada]

Despite the way you guys keep running with the ball hither and yon I will repeat, I am talking about a hypothetical culture hundreds of years in the future striving to follow the 'commandments' inscribed on the Georgia Guidstones.

Presumably that will be after our current civilization has completed its descent and a different culture does the Phoenix routine from the ashes of our civilization. This implies that artificial insemination and modern surgery/implantation technology is not readily available to the culture I am speculating about. On the other hand knowledge of wound care and castration are not high technology. Farmers have castrated livestock for literally thousands of years, without causing the majority of castrated males to die of infection or shock.

[SeaGypsy]

My view of the Guidestones is much like Ibon's, they are not in any way more significant than any random cultural artefact, no more likely than the culture of the Luritja or Pitjanjatjarrah which have actually proved themselves over tens of thousands of years, including population control mechanisms built in, funky creation myths with animals & alien visitors, all sorts of cool stuff; to become a dominant future culture. The Guidestones are a combination of Bible Belt American hubris with an actually very shallow philosophy very widely open to interpretation. Only someone with very limited cultural education would consider the Guidestones to be particularly deep.

Edit to add, also I very much doubt such a thing as a dominant global culture will have any chance to exist once the One World Government fanatics wake up to the fact their fantasy has only ever been possible due to energy slaves which will not be around long enough to maintain anything for hundreds of years. A solar navy, airforce, army? Nuclear powered not just ships, but fighter aircraft, bombers, ATV's & tanks?

[Newfie]

If one of you ever touched my child you would pray that I would kill you before i was finished. Thank God that none of you are in charge of this country or of me. Castrating children, killing children,you guys need some serious psychological help.

Cog,

I don't expect you to understand this but what the hell, I'm feeling lucky.

What is being discussed are methodologies for mitigating the damage done to OUR children by YOUR policies and fantasies. Salvation, if possible, love come only through a long world view, not the knee jerk emotional reaction of feel good policies and imagined liberties.

No one here likes what is being discussed, but we are trying to a mature discussion on highly emotional and disturbing matters. Sort of like discussing end of life care for a parent or child.

[Newfie]

Sea,

I agree that the Guidestones are not very deep. I think I pointed out above they are repetative. And I also agree that it is unlikely we will have any new dominance cultural shift.

My bet is that we retrench into earlier forms of governance. And that will lead to a general increase in low level, regional, or territorial warfare.

Our over population is an artifact of the cheap energy we have. Mtake that's away and the population will plummet. So I suspect we are all trying to solve a proble that will not exist. The population will shrink of its own accord as the global financial structure, propped up by cheap energy, collapses.

Then the problems our dependents, if any, will face I'll be the old familiar problems of simply getting enough to eat and surviving the weather and their neighbors.

So, it is unlikely we will actually be faced with any of these despicable solutions.

[SeaGypsy]

Yep Newf. One of the angles on the Guidestones not yet discussed here is the NWO conspiracy usefulness therein. IMO the NWO is a reality, but with limited reach & even more limited success. Like other NWO artifice, will die with cheap jet travel.

[Cog]

If one of you ever touched my child you would pray that I would kill you before i was finished. Thank God that none of you are in charge of this country or of me. Castrating children, killing children,you guys need some serious psychological help.

Cog,

I don't expect you to understand this but what the hell, I'm feeling lucky.

What is being discussed are methodologies for mitigating the damage done to OUR children by YOUR policies and fantasies. Salvation, if possible, love come only through a long world view, not the knee jerk emotional reaction of feel good policies and imagined liberties.

No one here likes what is being discussed, but we are trying to a mature discussion on highly emotional and disturbing matters. Sort of like discussing end of life care for a parent or child.

Oh I understand what is being discussed here. You hold my views as archaic and that they should be dispensed with as soon as the collective has the power and the enforcement mechanism to force me to do so.

I hold these archaic and imagined liberties to be true.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."--

The social engineers and social justice warriors would destroy those words if they had the power and I am not talking about hundreds of years into the future. They would destroy them right now.

So while some of the posters have back-pedaled a bit and said they are discussing hypotheticals and hundreds of years into the future after the crash of society, I do not believe them. To consider the castration of a child, you must believe that you will have to power to enforce this on those who object. And you must believe that such a thing is something worthwhile to pursue.

My conclusion is that back-pedaling aside, that people speculating about hypotheticals, would enforce their will on me and my family RIGHT NOW if they had the power to do so. And they want the power to do so.

I will repeat my objection to the Guide stones I made previously. They seek to destroy individual rights in the pursuit of some sort of collective. Such a time may come but not while I can oppose it.

[Newfie]

Cog,

You are most assuredly dead wrong. There is no more forceful evidence of the collective than 7.3 billion people. Freedom and rights can only breath where they have sufficient free air, room for thought and action without impinging the rights of their neighbors.

You of all should understand that overpopulation is the biggest threat to the rights and liberties you say you hold so dear.

[Cog]

If you do not believe in individual liberties and you wish to force me to believe in a collective right, then you are going to have to kill me. are you willing personally to pull the trigger on me?

I believe you stated previously that I and my beliefs are personally responsible for the destruction of the planet. Therefore you should try to kill me because I am threatening everything you hold dear.

[Ibon]

If you do not believe in individual liberties and you wish to force me to believe in a collective right, then you are going to have to kill me. are you willing personally to pull the trigger on me?

I believe you stated previously that I and my beliefs are personally responsible for the destruction of the planet. Therefore you should try to kill me because I am threatening everything you hold dear.

Things will not move fast enough to force you to change your views. Mostly consequences of human overshoot will affect your offspring who will be socialized radically different than you are, in spite of how fervently you transmit to them your love of personal freedom.

Cog, the reality of 7.3 billion moving through overshoot is not fertile grounds for the continuation of personal unregulated freedom. It will be quite fertile grounds for citizens to be persuaded to sacrifice for the greater good of the commons which actually your grandfathers and lovers of the constitution actually understood quite well in our not to distant path. Personal liberty was always mixed in quite strongly with a strong civic sense of the commons up until the last couple of generations educated with consumer hedonism.

Events will cause the collective to choose collective sacrifice over personal freedom when consequences make this a pragmatic necessity rather than an ideology.

Each generation moving forward will be socialized as a result of external events that will shape ideology.

Your great grandson may very well one day say .. " If grandpa Cog would see us now, he would turn over in his grave"

[Newfie]

If you do not believe in individual liberties and you wish to force me to believe in a collective right, then you are going to have to kill me. are you willing personally to pull the trigger on me?

I believe you stated previously that I and my beliefs are personally responsible for the destruction of the planet. Therefore you should try to kill me because I am threatening everything you hold dear.

Quite the opposite, I like my personal liberties very much thank you. I am very much aware of the collective, and am more than a little wary of it. I have no desire to force you to any collective belief.

Your beliefs (and you are in the vast majority to which I also belong) ARE responisble for the destruction of the planet. And yes there are far too many people, most will die. Not npby my hand directly, but our combined wonton destruction of the Eco system.

Economic growth is genocide on a mass scale.

Let me repeat....

ECONOMIC GROWTH IS GENOCIDE ON A MASS SCALE.

[Ibon]

Let me repeat....

ECONOMIC GROWTH IS GENOCIDE ON A MASS SCALE.

Everyone is squirming trying not to look in the eye at the truth of what you are saying; Cog in the US, Hans in Germany, Mohammed in Egypt, Joao in Brazil, Pedro in Mexico, Li in China, Mr. Patel in India, all of them squirm uncomfortably trying to hold to their ideologies and cultural and religious beliefs when confronted with the hard cold truth of these words Newfie.

Nobody will be spared. At least not their children.

Get ready for some serious confrontations with those ideological truths you hold so dear.

[Newfie]

Thank you Ibon. I strive to the simple truths. They are bloody difficult. And painful.