[vision-master]

8) OK here is a question for you. Of the three classes of people in America, rich, middle class ,and food stamp unemployed poor, which will fair better as we bump down the cliff after peak oil. There was a "reality" show that took the credit cards away from a bunch of rich American princesses. It was pretty funny. They couldn't even figure out how to open a box of wine.
Now take your multi generational poor and cut off his food stamps etc. Will he know how to do anything else besides wait in line for some bureaucrat to help him.
Then you have the middle class mill worker that got up and went to work five and six days a week and worked under the table whenever he was laid off. He didn't design the mill or arrange for the work orders but he got his job done every shift.
I'm betting on the mill worker. All you cubicle denizens with twin computer monitors at your desk are going to take it hard.

The ones that change from mind/ ego consciousness into heart consciousness. It's happening right now. You can either change with the comming new Earth, or stay in the old World paragram.

[vtsnowedin]

[The ones that change from mind/ ego consciousness into heart consciousness. It's happening right now. You can either change with the comming new Earth, or stay in the old World paragram.

How does being heart conscious put food on the table or a roof over your head.

[vision-master]

By living within the laws of mother nature, by understanding the relationship between all things on this Planet. By learning to live in harmony with all living things. To understand, we are not seperate, but connected to everything. Mother earth is a living being as is the Sun. Our consciousness comes from the Sun, Life is from the Sun and regulated by the Moon.

If we do not change our way's, we will not be allowed to stay on this Planet. The time is near....

[KingM]

By living within the laws of mother nature, by understanding the relationship between all things on this Planet. By learning to live in harmony with all living things. To understand, we are not seperate, but connected to everything. Mother earth is a living being as is the Sun. Our consciousness comes from the Sun, Life is from the Sun and regulated by the Moon.

I'm afraid the opposite would happen in a collapse. People will either be forced to abandon their scruples or be devoured by the strong and ruthless. In times of collapse, the violent and aggressive and cunning survive and even prosper.

[vtsnowedin]

Power or gold or happiness???
Take the power then steal the gold then you will be happy.

In tune with nature?? What a crock. In nature to the victor go the spoils. It is a hard cruel world out there and as our civilization collapses with the supply of oil we will relearn that lesson or die.
There are two kinds of wild mice. The quick and the dead.

[Ludi]

Personally, I think those who are able to work well with others are most likely to survive. I'm not convinced people will need to get rid of their principles in order to do this. Good luck with being unprincipled and ruthless, if that's your plan.

[vision-master]

By living within the laws of mother nature, by understanding the relationship between all things on this Planet. By learning to live in harmony with all living things. To understand, we are not seperate, but connected to everything. Mother earth is a living being as is the Sun. Our consciousness comes from the Sun, Life is from the Sun and regulated by the Moon.

I'm afraid the opposite would happen in a collapse. People will either be forced to abandon their scruples or be devoured by the strong and ruthless. In times of collapse, the violent and aggressive and cunning survive and even prosper.

This will change, the small children of today are aware. They see what many of us don't. @ some point when enough ppl operate through heart consciousness, everything will change, the masses will follow - it's starting now. The old way's will fall down, once our money system fails, government changes, corporations fall and so does the Church. Change is Now.

[vision-master]

Power or gold or happiness???
Take the power then steal the gold then you will be happy.

In tune with nature?? What a crock. In nature to the victor go the spoils. It is a hard cruel world out there and as our civilization collapses with the supply of oil we will relearn that lesson or die.
There are two kinds of wild mice. The quick and the dead.

You will stay in the old World until your lessons are learned.

[vtsnowedin]

Personally, I think those who are able to work well with others are most likely to survive. I'm not convinced people will need to get rid of their principles in order to do this. Good luck with being unprincipled and ruthless, if that's your plan.

I think you take my point too far. I am more in the line of R. Reagan's "Trust but verify". Honest dealings with other honest people will still be the most productive but being constantly on the lookout for those that are less then honest will be much more necessary then it is today and the government or what is left of it will more then likely be the largest source of villainy.
But that has nothing to do with being in tune with nature.

[vision-master]

Forgive everyone you have hurt. Just do it in your heart.

[Ludi]

I think you take my point too far.

I was responding more to the "ruthless" comment above.

[deMolay]

deMolay wrote:
As usual no body would answer the question. Especially Ludi. Just saying.

Ludi, like most "Lets tax the rich and give to the poor" folks don't like to consider what happens when you actually enact policies that do that. Ludi is a slippery gal and you have to get up early in the morning to actually trap her into admitting anything.

No Cog, leftwing idealogues like Ludi and others of her ilk are not slippery. They are just weasels. They are intellectually dishonest and hate the facts that have shown repeatedly that they are WRONG. The only Communist Prison Camp that is still going today is North Korea, and millions of the State Owned Citizens are starved to death each year, to ensure policies like the Ludi's and others of her ilk are enforced. They think that if they can just have what they want that all will be good, and they will be allowed to live by State Theft from their fellow citizens table without contributing.They know very well, that at some point the laws of nature kick in, as in all well documented cases of the Tradegy of the Commons. In Stalins day when he was enforcing his policies in the Ukraine of Forced Starvation for political ends that they would be the Useful Idiots that would recieve the first bullets in his death squads.

[vision-master]

Do you not have a left & right brain?

[diemos]

The only Communist Prison Camp that is still going today is North Korea, and millions of the State Owned Citizens are starved to death each year, to ensure policies like the Ludi's and others of her ilk are enforced.

The fallacy of the excluded middle. It just never goes away.

Endlessly we're told that the only two options we have to choose from are 1) unregulated dog eat dog libertarian free market capitalism or 2) Stalinist death camps.

Ignoring that there are endless variations and permutations between those two extremes. Ignoring that those bastions of socialism in europe don't seem to have any death squads, spend less on health care and live better than we do.

[Livewire713]

The “Blessings and Woes” from the Sermon on the Mount, in Luke 6:20-26 – “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the Kingdom of God. Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you will be filled… But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation. Woe to you who are full now, for you will be hungry…”

[deMolay]

And woe to the those who postulate parasitism and theft, for when the money runs out they will all starve. Ludi's philosophy boiled down is the parasite on the body of the host is nurtured and protected until the host is killed.Then crawl away like a slug to die or find another host..

[diemos]

And woe to the those who postulate parasitism and theft

Sorry buddy, but the tribe has always had unproductive members. The young, the old, the sick, who survive only through the efforts of the productive. No one is arguing that the hunters shouldn't get the lion's share of the kill but there's no need to deny the unproductive the scraps.

[Serial_Worrier]

And woe to the those who postulate parasitism and theft

Sorry buddy, but the tribe has always had unproductive members. The young, the old, the sick, who survive only through the efforts of the productive. No one is arguing that the hunters shouldn't get the lion's share of the kill but there's no need to deny the unproductive the scraps.

They don't get scraps right now?

[Livewire713]

And woe to the those who postulate parasitism and theft

Sorry buddy, but the tribe has always had unproductive members. The young, the old, the sick, who survive only through the efforts of the productive. No one is arguing that the hunters shouldn't get the lion's share of the kill but there's no need to deny the unproductive the scraps.

They don't get scraps right now?

They do get scraps, it's called foodstamps. Some people on here think the poor don't deserve foodstamps because they enjoy being poor. Im not sure how anyone enjoys living on about $4 a day for food.

[diemos]

They do get scraps, it's called foodstamps.

What's truly ironic is that the productive are being eaten alive by the unproductive. But it's not the poor schlubs getting food stamps that he should be up in arms about. Here's a (by no means complete) list of the unproductive who are eating america alive:

Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankenfeld, the partners of goldman sachs, AIG, the joint chiefs of staff, raytheon, mcdonnell-douglas, Advanced integrated systems, ball corp, honeywell, halliburton, rockwell, northrop-grumman, sikorsky, pfizer, cigna, etc, etc, etc.