[vision-master]

UR here! lol

[Sixstrings]

And the cry goes forth. If only we would tax the rich, the world would be fair for once.

Well, it would be more fair. The Unites States is the richest nation on earth, that money has to be distributed somehow -- it doesn't have to pool in the top 2% you know.

In the 60's, top bracket on the rich was something like 90%. We had a broad middle class. Doctors and hospitals didn't make a lot of money, and therefore healthcare was affordable without insurance.

There would be no poor.

There would be less poor.

We would live in harmony with each other without conflict. The poor would not use crack, beat their wives, sexually abuse their children, and not smell bad.

There would be less crime and dysfunction. Poverty is the cause of most crime and substance abuse.

Yes the world would be perfect if we just showed those evil rich people we aren't going to take it anymore and make them just like the rest of us.

I agree. We need a larger, broad middle class and fewer super rich.

I'm not sure whether to cry or laugh. Its like no one on this board ever heard about the ramifications of peak oil. Do you really think it matters who has money and who doesn't anymore?

Oh, not that old line again -- using peak oil to somehow justify a third world elites / serfs paradigm. If you and me were Nicaraguans I might agree with you, that no there isn't enough money for our nation to a have a broad middle class. But this isn't Nicaragua, this is supposedly the richest nation on earth -- if Finland and Germany can employ their people I don't see why we can't.

[Ludi]

Where is the Taxed Enough Already (TEA) party on this? The fools often complain about the government taking all their tax money but they don't comprehend what is going on in the world around them.

They hate Marxism and socialism, but they're just fine with Neo-feudalism, apparently. At least they certainly argue strenuously on its behalf.

They seem to identify strongly with the wealthy, because they see wealth as representing the virtue of hard work and they think of themselves as virtuous hard workers. They see the lack of wealth as representing a lack of virtue and hard work. Even though neither of these positions has any basis in reality.

[Ludi]

Oh, not that old line again -- using peak oil to somehow justify a third world elites / serfs paradigm.

Yes, as if peak oil itself weren't going to be bad enough, we have to fight to protect Neo-feudalism in the US!

Apparently.

[Livewire713]

Cog wrote "Do you really think it matters who has money and who doesn't anymore?"

Yes it does matter because you still need money to survive. If you don't think it matters anymore then why are you so against the poor? If it doesnt matter then lets just print up a $hit load and start giving it to the poor.

And theres plenty of rich that do drugs, beat their wives, sexually abuse children and yes even smell. Wake up or shut up.

[Sixstrings]

They hate Marxism and socialism, but they're just fine with Neo-feudalism, apparently. At least they certainly argue strenuously on its behalf.

Was watching MSNBC the other day. One of the pundits said "it's remarkable how much empathy the poor have for the rich," since in poll after poll the lower classes oppose raising taxes on the rich.

Another pundit said it's because Americans are "aspirational," meaning the lower 98% honestly think they'll be super-rich one day too. I remember someone saying something like that on this forum one time, that he doesn't support higher taxes on the rich in case he wins the lottery one day.

[eastbay]

Quick fact:

Vast personal wealth is always a result of inheritance, exploitation of labor, and/or theft. It has very little relationship with ones high morals or 'hard work'.

[Pretorian]

"Children from low-income families have only a 1 percent chance of reaching the top 5 percent of the income distribution, versus children of the rich who have about a 22 percent chance...

How does increasing taxes on the rich make the low income familie's probability of reaching the top 5% bracket increase?

Probably by helping the rich to go to the gutters I guess. Giving a helping hand to the enthropy, which does its work regardless or rich men's wishes. Once you step down from top 5%, someone takes your place, and we have another complaining on everything specimen. Thats how.

[Ludi]

Another pundit said it's because Americans are "aspirational," meaning the lower 98% honestly think they'll be super-rich one day too.

Apparently they have a 1% chance of that happening.

[Ludi]

Cog wrote "Do you really think it matters who has money and who doesn't anymore?"

He really said that? Wow, I'm missing some super stuff having him on ignore! That's the stupidest thing I've seen in a long time. I guess he doesn't know "preps" and "survivalist gear" take money to buy and the more money you have the better prepared you can be with land, guns, stored food, private army, private island, whatever else you think is important to survival.

[diemos]

basis in reality.

There you go again. Don't you know that the conservative mantra is, "Keep your reality off my ideology".

[vtsnowedin]

OK here is a question for you. Of the three classes of people in America, rich, middle class ,and food stamp unemployed poor, which will fair better as we bump down the cliff after peak oil.
There was a "reality" show that took the credit cards away from a bunch of rich American princesses. It was pretty funny. They couldn't even figure out how to open a box of wine.
Now take your multi generational poor and cut off his food stamps etc. Will he know how to do anything else besides wait in line for some bureaucrat to help him.
Then you have the middle class mill worker that got up and went to work five and six days a week and worked under the table whenever he was laid off. He didn't design the mill or arrange for the work orders but he got his job done every shift.
I'm betting on the mill worker. All you cubicle denizens with twin computer monitors at your desk are going to take it hard.

[Pretorian]

Quick fact:

Vast personal wealth is always a result of inheritance, exploitation of labor, and/or theft. It has very little relationship with ones high morals or 'hard work'.

And by raping Gaia of course, though this one is hard to do without exploitation of labor. Define ""vast". What about Tiger woods, Brad Pitt, Edison?

[Ludi]

I'm betting on the mill worker.

Not many of those guys left anymore.

[vtsnowedin]

I'm betting on the mill worker.

Not many of those guys left anymore.

Sad but true. But those guys (and gals) didn't go anywhere when the mill closed they just moved on to the next best thing. They have already had lesson one in post peak survival and are ahead of the rest of us on the learning curve.

[Ludi]

Sad but true. But those guys (and gals) didn't go anywhere when the mill closed they just moved on to the next best thing. They have already had lesson one in post peak survival and are ahead of the rest of us on the learning curve.

Many or most of them are probably at retirement age and either already collecting or looking forward to their "entitlements." Which the TeaParty/Republicans seem to want to take away from them.

I worked with some of those kinds of folks, who moved from aerospace to the special effects industry. Guys who worked on the lathe/mill. They're definitely of retirement age by now.

[vtsnowedin]

Sad but true. But those guys (and gals) didn't go anywhere when the mill closed they just moved on to the next best thing. They have already had lesson one in post peak survival and are ahead of the rest of us on the learning curve.

Many or most of them are probably at retirement age and either already collecting or looking forward to their "entitlements." Which the TeaParty/Republicans seem to want to take away from them.

I worked with some of those kinds of folks, who moved from aerospace to the special effects industry. Guys who worked on the lathe/mill. They're definitely of retirement age by now.

I don't know about the age distribution but even if they are retired or about to their children have the advantage of the work ethic their parents demonstrated to them as they grew up. Lets modify my bet to" the mill workers class and their extended families being the best prepared for what's in store."

[Ludi]

I don't know about the age distribution but even if they are retired or about to their children have the advantage of the work ethic their parents demonstrated to them as they grew up. Lets modify my bet to" the mill workers class and their extended families being the best prepared for what's in store."

Those of us who worked our 8 to 6 jobs might be better prepared than some others. Let's hope so!

[Cog]

Ever once in a while its useful to throw a rock into a dogpile and see who yelps.

[Livewire713]

Ever once in a while its useful to throw a rock into a dogpile and see who yelps.

It's also a good way to get attacked by a group of dogs.