[dohboi]

Less charismatic but more vital is the loss of the organisms that provide most of the oxygen for the planet: plankton. I mourn those little guys deeply.

The little fellers also represent the largest carbon sink in the world, so their demise also represents a giant feedback loop (though I think the term "death spiral" rings truer here) accelerating both gw and ocean acidification.

[Sixstrings]

Less charismatic but more vital is the loss of the organisms that provide most of the oxygen for the planet. I mourn those little guys deeply.

I think I mentioned that in the "Home" documentary thread. A little factoid in that movie stuck out at me, that 70% of our oxygen comes from sea algae?

I'm no biologist, but the implications there are scary. Are there scenarios (such as ocean acidification) that could literally have us dying for lack of oxygen?

[Cid_Yama]

Oxygen in the upper layers of the Ocean prevent hydrogen sulphide from being released.

Reduce oxygen enough, and the hydrogen sulphide reaches the atmosphere.

[rangerone314]

Its not all gloomy. If there is a huge die off, people will rebound eventually, and so will the Earth, although it may take tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of years...

Once, the human species had a genetic bottleneck of about 10,000 breeding pairs I think it was...

Its hard to imagine a catastrophe bad enough to knock us back to that point, given how versatile and adaptable humans are... not even Yellowstone erupting or most big asteroid impacts.

[hillsidedigger]

Oxygen in the upper layers of the Ocean prevent hydrogen sulphide from being released. Reduce oxygen enough, and the hydrogen sulphide reaches the atmosphere.

That would smell really bad, I think.

[Kylon]

It would smell like the entire planet farted!

Everywhere you go, it would be like the worst, most raunchy, most disgusting fart you've ever smelled, EVERYWHERE.

You wouldn't be able to escape it without a gas mask.

[mos6507]

Its not all gloomy. If there is a huge die off, people will rebound eventually, and so will the Earth, although it may take tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of years...
Once, the human species had a genetic bottleneck of about 10,000 breeding pairs I think it was...
Its hard to imagine a catastrophe bad enough to knock us back to that point, given how versatile and adaptable humans are... not even Yellowstone erupting or most big asteroid impacts.

Yes, but if all we are to concern ourselves with is the collective survival of the species, why attend to our personal preps? The sheer number of humans will be all the defense humanity needs. So it's not humanity that we need to look after, it's our personal survival. So it is gloomy, because the survival odds of going from 6-9 billion down to wherever we wind up in a massive die-off ain't so hot. I just can't put a positive spin on that kind of scenario.

And really, the whole reason we got into this mess is that we thought about ourselves instead of the species (tragedy of the commons). What makes you think everybody's going to change gears and die quietly and peacefully, content in the knowledge of the renewal that awaits mankind? No. We're not going to go down without a fight, which is perfectly understandable.

[Cid_Yama]

Putting people into a state of suspended animation is a mainstay of science fiction, but a new study may have brought the idea closer to reality. By exposing mice to low concentrations of hydrogen sulfide gas in air, researchers slowed the animals' metabolic rate to a near standstill with no apparent ill effects.

Many animals undergo periods of extreme metabolic slowdown, or torpor, in which heart rate drops, breathing slows, and body temperature plunges. For some organisms, such as several species of hummingbirds, this drop in metabolic rate is a daily event. Other animals, such as bears, experience a seasonal slowdown for months while they hibernate.

By administering room air laced with 80 parts-per-million of hydrogen sulfide, a noxious gas that smells like rotten eggs, the researchers induced mice to enter a hibernation-like state. Within minutes of breathing the gas in an enclosed chamber, the mice stopped moving and appeared to lose consciousness. Their respiration gradually dropped over the next 6 hours from the normal 120 breaths per minute to fewer than 10 breaths per minute. Moreover, the rodents' body temperatures dropped from the normal 37°C to as low as 11°C, depending on the air temperature within the chamber.

After the researchers shut off the gas and pumped in normal room air, the mice progressively regained their normal activity levels. A battery of behavioral and functional tests showed no difference between mice that had been metabolically suspended and those that hadn't.

Since mammalian cells normally produce some hydrogen sulfide, the results could indicate how hibernators and other animals naturally enter torpor, says Hannah Carey, a researcher at the University of Wisconsin–Madison who studies hibernating ground squirrels.

Roth notes that experiments with a variety of mammals are needed to determine whether gas-induced torpor will be feasible in people. "We think this may be a latent ability that all mammals have," he says.

If this ability is indeed an ancient adaptation, it might explain how the precursors of small mammals, reptiles, and birds could have survived the Cretaceous and Permian extinctions. Hydrogen sulfide would have been a fairly ubiquitous by-product of the massive die-off of vegetation.

link

[Grautr]

Today comes the startling news of a British government report showing a drop in oceanic zooplankton of 73 percent since 1960.

We were profoundly shocked to read that zooplankton abundance has declined by about 73% since 1960 and about 50% since 1990. “This is a biodiversity disaster of enormous proportions.” A graph shown in the report charts a steady decline in zooplankton from 1990 to 2006.

For many people, this may seem relatively inconsequential as compared to daily cataclysmic revelations about the state of the national and global economy. This reaction is understandable: we care first and foremost about our own immediate survival prospects, and a new and greater Depression will mean millions losing their homes, millions more their jobs. It's nothing to look forward to.

It takes some scientific literacy to appreciate the implications of the catastrophic loss of microscopic sea animals. We need to understand that these are food for crustaceans and fish, which are food for sea birds and mammals. We need to appreciate the importance of the oceanic food web in the planetary biosphere.

link

The movie Soylent Green forsaw this, the death of the base of the food chain leading to the necessity for the drastic measure of "Soylent Green". The die-off of the plankton was the "big secret" Saul discovered that led to the "horrible secret" of Soylent Green.

Numbers of zooplankton, tiny organisms that form the base of the ocean's food chain, have plummeted 70 percent since the 1960s, according to numbers collected by the British Department for Environment Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA).

The data were included without further comment in a graph on page nine of DEFRA's 2008-2009 Marine Program Plan. The nonprofit organization Buglife noticed this graph, however, and began sounding the alarm.

link

There are many types pf plankton, zooplankton being one. What about other forms of plankton? are they suffering just as badly?

[dohboi]

Phytoplankton, the little guys that supply us with about half of our atmospheric oxygen, are also strongly affected by acidification, as are all calcifiers.

[Lore]

One of the myths of the denialosphere is that during the MWP grapes were grown in Great Britain unlike today. Although, mysteriously, I can pop a cork on a fine British wine right now while I write this.

So much for the past, I recommend those over there get ahead of the curve!

Subtropical crops such as dates, figs and rice could become staples of British agriculture within 20 years, according to government forecasts.

The assessment, produced by officials at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra), outlines future possibilities for British food production based on recent climate data.

The forecasts highlight some of the unexpected benefits of a warmer climate. It means the British diet will in future be able to include produce currently imported from as far away as China and the Philippines, without incurring massive food miles
.
However, some existing crops such as potatoes will struggle, as temperatures are predicted to rise by about 2C within 20 years.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/e ... 719157.ece

[essex]

Yeah, and mangoes and pineapples will be grown hydroponically in the arctic.
But keep the nonsense coming to amuse us all.

[kiwichick]

essex; why use hydroponics?

wouldn't we just plant them in the soil?

[dorlomin]

Bleeding machine ate my response anyway......

Drinking British wines have a reputation of being more an excersize in stoic patriotism than an epicurian odyessy. Wines have probibly been grown here since Roman times and through the dark age climate pessimism to the end of the early modern era and the medievel climate optimum. A few hardy vinters held out into the depths of the little ice age but the last of them dies out in the early 20th centuary. As I understand it the last of them were in Wales, a nation famous for only having two food groups: sheep and non sheep. But their is only a limited amount of info that can be guessed from the pressence of British vinyards as they were necesssary for religous observaton (the Euchrist) so it could have tasted of cats piss (could.... still does...... ) and it would have found a market. That there were never more than about 130 of them even during the very peak we can guess that they were not a thriving industry.

The revival started in the 50s so cannot really be put down to AGW although perhaps a rebound in temperatures from the depths of the recent climactic minimums and dramaticaly improved technologies may have a role.

But the UK climate generaly is a very poor indicator of European let alone world temperatures. Our summers can vary in average temperature a pretty meaty 2C between years depending on weather. We can literaly experiance a little ice age summer one year and a medievel climate optimum one the next. This is due to the UK being close to the jet stream, if its too our north it drive those big mean old Altantic low pressure systems to our north and gives us glorious long summer days of clear skies, when conditions are optimal it can also draw warm dry air from the continent with only the coastal breezes providing relief... cue pictures of chubby tourists with hankies round their head on Brighton and Weston Super Mare beaches. When the jet steam comes south it brings those big mean old weather systems in steady succession of cloudy rainy days and cooling sea air from the Atlantic and all the world is treated to rained off Wimbledon (thank god the new roof saves us from Cliff Richard), rained off and drawn cricket tests and muddy Glastonburies are on the tele. Hell its not even different years, this June was a scorther with the jet stream to the north and july a damp squib as it had settled overhead.

The irony is the exact opposite happens in winter! This year we had a very clear dry January, this led to bitterly cold (by the standards of southern faeries) weather due to cloudless, long dark nights leaking heat off into space. These conditions are amplified if the high pressure systems pull in cold continental air. But if the Atlantic lows are rolling in then clouds cover the night sky and the air is tended to come from the Atlantic which moderates the cold and we have a damp 5-10C January days.

Offcourse the other great weather forcing agent around our coast is that little bit of Florida sunshine and Disney magic that washes up along the Scottish coast, the gulf stream. Grapes in England? Phew I can top that and then some... along the Western Scottish coast many of the more sheltered towns are home to sub tropical plants like palm trees!

Palm Trees
The west coast of Scotland has its very own weather phenomenon that results in unusually high temperatures and flourishing Palm trees. One place affected by this is the small fishing village of Plockton.

Plockton, an 18th century planned village is one of the most beautifully situated villages in Scotland. Not only is it surrounded by mountains but it also enjoys a mild climate. This mild climate can be attributed to several factors. Firstly the village can be found on the east side of a great headland protruding out of Loch Carron, and therefore enjoys a position that protects it from sea gales. Secondly, it enjoys the warm waters of the Gulf Stream which make landfall on the west coast of Scotland. Hence, the reason its pretty harbour is unexpectedly fringed with Palm trees.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/features/u ... d_02.shtml

Here is a picture from Largs near Glasgow.


Other towns along the Dumfries and Galloway, Ayreshire and Strathclyde coasts are similarly blessed with often near frost free winters as the gulf stream and shelter from nothern winds can produce rather suprising microclimates....... Just dont think its warm enough for t-shirts in January.

Meandering post but hopefully a bit of information to enhance the quality of the debate.

[essex]

Interesting pic dorlomin , it shows native cabbage trees from New Zealand - Tī kōuka in Maori. These are very hardy plants and can stand the cold. Lots of info here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabbage_tree_(New_Zealand)

[Quinny]

My newly plated vines are growing, but no fruit, about 2ft growth though form a 6in plant, quite pleased really. Hope they live through the winter.

[yeahbut]

Interesting pic dorlomin , it shows native cabbage trees from New Zealand - Tī kōuka in Maori. These are very hardy plants and can stand the cold.

Yeah, I remember being astounded to see them growing all over the place in Ireland- they are kind of an iconic plant here, they couldn't be more 'new zealand', and to see them there was really weird. Later, I worked for a company that created and maintained gardens for commercial properties and I was amazed how many nz plants they used. Cabbage trees(or cordylines as they are also known) like the ones pictured, were used all the time, as were the purple leafed variety. Shrubs called hebes, flaxes and astelias, a hedging plant called griselinia, and lots of nz grasses were commonplace also. Any tough alpine or coastal plant seemed to thrive.

As for hot or cold UK summers, and wet or dry Glastos, I experienced both kinds. The hot and dry ones were great, the other- well the less said the better. To make it thru one of those long, miserable winters and then get no summer to speak of is fairly grim. I imagine that the difference between a good and a bad vintage for a uk winemaker must be pretty extreme...

[yeahbut]

My newly plated vines are growing, but no fruit, about 2ft growth though form a 6in plant, quite pleased really. Hope they live through the winter.

What variety are you growing? Sounds like they're off to a reasonable start, are you planning to make wine? I've worked in a few vineyards and have a bit of an interest, both in production and consumption!

[Lore]

Yes, we Brits love a good WHINE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, as far as England is concerned, global warming is a complete load of bollocks.

I've just spent a week in the "sunny south of England" (Somerset) - Some days warm, but cloudy, and some days wet & cold. We have had 2 "hot" weeks this year, when it didn't rain - TWO, (early June).

Its July, and, yes, the heating is back on occasionally as it's cold when it rains (even in "sunny" Somerset). I am also still paying off last winter's (till end of may) gas and electric bills.

Global warming, CO2, etc - COBBLERS.
Peak Oil (i.e. >=50% of reserves burned) - FACT (Thats why I'm here)

Yes we have a 2 deg climate change here - 2 deg COLDER.

Gasmon

Another fact filled weather report from GASMON that just demolishes the argument for climate change's existence.