[mos6507]

Hmmm... yeaaa... the families of the South Central Farm did 'something different' for more than thirteen years. Where did it get them?

You're not going to find self-reliance in an area that is that severely in overshoot.

[Ludi]

For me it was the Pierce County Council and my nimby neighbors.

What did they prevent you from doing?

[Ludi]

Hmmm... yeaaa... the families of the South Central Farm did 'something different' for more than thirteen years. Where did it get them?

The Food Bank had a revocable permit to use the land.

So if you have a revocable permit to do something and it is revoked, you're being prevented from doing something different.

Okey dokey.

[TWilliam]

Hmmm... yeaaa... the families of the South Central Farm did 'something different' for more than thirteen years. Where did it get them?

The Food Bank had a revocable permit to use the land.

So if you have a revocable permit to do something and it is revoked, you're being prevented from doing something different.

Okey dokey.

What was prevented was an opportunity for the community using the land to acquire it permanently. The City of LA had sold the land to the LA Harbor Department, who then granted the Food Bank use of it. The City later proffered a deal behind closed doors, on a piece of land it no longer even owned, without ever allowing the farmers an opportunity to to make a bid for it themselves.

So yes, in effect, they were prevented from doing something different.

[TWilliam]

Who has stopped you from changing the way you live, TWilliam?

Every greedy playground bully bureaucrat who seeks to extort a permit/license/use fee from me any time I wish to make use of what's mine as I see fit, that's who.

[Nefarious]

Who has stopped you from changing the way you live, TWilliam?

Every greedy playground bully bureaucrat who seeks to extort a permit/license/use fee from me any time I wish to make use of what's mine as I see fit, that's who.

Have to agree to that.
My mother had an old two car garage that was in a decrepit state, so one day I set to work on it with a pair of leather gloves and a sledge hammer. I took it all the way down to the slab and was loading the old timber on a trailer to haul away when a county building inspector came by(I think that's what he was anyway, not sure on the title) and he wanted to see my demolition permit! WTF!! I have to get a permit to tear a garage down on private property by hand!!

[TWilliam]

My mother had an old two car garage that was in a decrepit state, so one day I set to work on it with a pair of leather gloves and a sledge hammer. I took it all the way down to the slab and was loading the old timber on a trailer to haul away when a county building inspector came by(I think that's what he was anyway, not sure on the title) and he wanted to see my demolition permit! WTF!! I have to get a permit to tear a garage down on private property by hand!!

And you can be 99% certain that if some neighbor had complained about the 'eyesore', some 'official' would have been there in short order compelling someone to 'deal with it'. After paying the requisite fees of course...

[mos6507]

As with all of these sorts of anecdotes, your mileage may vary. I used to live in a converted garage for a year with my mother in law on my ex-wife's side. I was making good money at the time, but the intention was to save up for a house. Of course, this didn't factor in the combination of the housing boom AND my wife not controlling her spending. Anyway, the garage was certainly not permitted, and during the year that I was there, they enclosed the porch to make an extension. Also totally under the table with illegals doing the construction. Anyway, I reported this to the local authorities and as far as I know, no investigation was done. This is in an area where an earthquake could easily topple bad construction and kill people.

[Ludi]

So yes, in effect, they were prevented from doing something different.

Yep, when people want to do something illegal like squat on land they don't own, in a notorious fashion ("flouncing") they might be prevented from doing what they want.

Being prevented from doing whatever you want is not being prevented from changing. Use a little imagination here, folks. Honestly.

[careinke]

What did they prevent you from doing?

Long Story, but basically they have been sitting on my application to plant geoducks, on two acres of our tide flats, for over five years. Interestingly enough, the family bought the tide lands from the state about 80 years ago in a program to encourage aquaculture.

It would have been a great deal for us. It would more than pay for the property taxes, and in the event of a fast crash, we would have thousands of pounds of delicious protein, that can stay in the mud for hundreds of years ready to harvest on any low tide.

[Ludi]

Long Story, but basically they have been sitting on my application to plant geoducks, on two acres of our tide flats, for over five years.

Nothing you can raise there that doesn't require an application? You're just dead in the water (so to speak) because of some bureaucrat? Doesn't it just bug the hell out of you to depend utterly on a bureaucrat to do anything at all? Man, that would just fry me. I might get so darn mad I would come up with another idea.

[careinke]

I might get so darn mad I would come up with another idea.

Why do you think I haven't?

[Ludi]

I might get so darn mad I would come up with another idea.

Why do you think I haven't?

Lack of imagination.

[TWilliam]

So yes, in effect, they were prevented from doing something different.

Yep, when people want to do something illegal like squat on land they don't own, in a notorious fashion ("flouncing") they might be prevented from doing what they want.

Being prevented from doing whatever you want is not being prevented from changing. Use a little imagination here, folks. Honestly.

You're missing the larger point here. Perhaps Dale Allen Pfeiffer can make it a little clearer:

The fate of [South Central Community] Farm, taken in conjunction with the fate of New Orleans' poorer residents, demonstrates that the poor will not be cared for. Instead they will be preyed upon and will suffer the brunt of the coming collapse. In truth, the working class, and in particular the lower working class, is the alternative energy source the elite intend to use to replace their consumption of fossil fuels. And this is the system they are quietly working to set in place.

I have said elsewhere (Mountain Sentinel Vol. 1, No. 4) that we must recognize that relocalization is a radical idea. It is radical because it seeks to replace the dominant system with one that is more healthy and equitable for all. And whenever a radical movement rises to threaten the dominant system, it must fight for its survival or be crushed ruthlessly.

So far, relocalization has posed no threat to the dominant system. Where it is happening at all, it is marginalized. Most people are not even aware of it, and it holds little appeal to them. They prefer to shop at Walmart, drive their SUVs and yak on their cell phones. But when relocalization efforts do become visible, and when society has collapsed to the point that relocalization begins to appeal to the masses, then you can be certain that government and corporations will do their best to stamp it out. Either that or subvert it so that it is made profitable to them.

Tho' in this instance he's speaking specifically of relocalization, what he says is applicable to any efforts to 'do something different' that are perceived as being a threat to the established system. Sooner or later someone is going to show up who'll do their damnedest to stop it.

[mattduke]

A California student got a visit from the FBI this week after he found a secret GPS tracking device on his car, and a friend posted photos of it online. The post prompted wide speculation about whether the device was real, whether the young Arab-American was being targeted in a terrorism investigation and what the authorities would do.

It took just 48 hours to find out: The device was real, the student was being secretly tracked and the FBI wanted their expensive device back, the student told Wired.com in an interview Wednesday.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/1 ... ng-device/

[gollum]

Not that I'd ever do anything to be a target of an investigation, but I'd have destroyed it or sold it. You attach a device to my car it becomes mine if I find it. Maybe I put it in a UPS box and send it to Pakistan, or leave it on the ground next to an oil refinery?

[eXpat]

Not that I'd ever do anything to be a target of an investigation, but I'd have destroyed it or sold it. You attach a device to my car it becomes mine if I find it. Maybe I put it in a UPS box and send it to Pakistan, or leave it on the ground next to an oil refinery?

That´s a good one, or attach it to a travelling gnome.

[Dreamtwister]

Not that I'd ever do anything to be a target of an investigation

These days, just visiting this forum could make you a target.

If I found one of those things on my car, it would find it's way into a containerload of scrap bound for China. Preferably while still functioning.

[mattduke]

The anti sec hacker group has grabbed millions of user ids from the FBI and posted it for all the world to see.

http://phys.org/news/2012-09-hacker-gro ... apple.html

[autonomous]

https://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7600181/