[claman]

I sweden, thinghs have started escalating. Our guests are so dissatisfied with the swedish society that they won't let ambulances or the firebrigades pass. The swedish police dare not interfere if the see our guests behaving inproperly. This is not anti-guest propaganda, This is facts

[ralfy]

Newfie "Fascism needs enemies to demonstrate to the people that it can be tough and make them safe and prosperous."

Don't you see that islam actually is an opponent to the Christian world ?
Come to Europe and you will se for your self.
We gave them asylum when they were in a crisis - now they clame sharia -laws . I think they should go back to the place they came from, and live happily ever after with sharia.

Shouldn't this be connected to covert support of various armed groups to keep the Middle East destabilized?

[ralfy]

And the same West that "challenges" Islam happily deals with clerico-fascist states in exchange for oil and manufacturing. Those in turn are needed to support consumer spending economies which are integral to "secular" lifestyles. And the same lifestyles that won't be sustainable due to combinations of peak oil, global warming, etc.

[SeaGypsy]

Duterte the braggart mass murderer won the Philippines Presidential election & will take over next month. He has already flip flopped on most of the positions which got him elected- 'ending crime in 3-6 months', 'fill Manila Bay with corpses of criminals', 'death penalty for petty drug offenses', etc, all being moderated in the same way Trump has begun winding back his most controversial policies.

My mother was in government jobs most of her career, I recall her telling when I was a kid- 'the public servants in government departments are the ones who actually run things, as every elected government rapidly discovers. Those who try to force change not wanted by Departmental chiefs are ousted or stonewalled.

We don't have elected Presidents here, but party appointed Prime Ministers. They get turfed easily, either by popular disgust or by public servant resistance.

This could be observed as a safety valve against populism, but surely the shift is gradually towards more fascist leadership & more draconian deployment of authority?

[Plantagenet]

The Freedom Party in Austria just missed winning control of Austria.

The Freedom Party is usually considered to be one of these "right wing" parties, but in actuality it is a leftwing anti-immigrant party. It gets its support from people in the working class in Austria.

If you are in the working class and you lose your job to an immigrant who will work for less, or your factory closes and moves overseas where the wages are peanuts, of course you are going to support parties that promise to restrict immigration and promise to stop factories going overseas.

Trump is riding the same wave in the USA. He's pulling in working class white voters, and his promise to build a wall at the USA Mexico border gets the biggest cheer at his rallies.

[Tanada]

The Freedom Party in Austria just missed winning control of Austria.

The Freedom Party is usually considered to be one of these "right wing" parties, but in actuality it is a leftwing anti-immigrant party. It gets its support from people in the working class in Austria.

If you are in the working class and you lose your job to an immigrant who will work for less, or your factory closes and moves overseas where the wages are peanuts, of course you are going to support parties that promise to restrict immigration and promise to stop factories going overseas.

Trump is riding the same wave in the USA. He's pulling in working class white voters, and his promise to build a wall at the USA Mexico border gets the biggest cheer at his rallies.

Not just working class white voters, I know a number of working class non white voters who are also in favor of keeping their jobs.

[SeaGypsy]

"Yahoo NEWS


Duterte takes on media

By Edith Regalado
By Edith Regalado
June 3, 2016

Duterte takes on media
More
Don’t f… with me – Rody
DAVAO CITY – President-elect Rodrigo Duterte not only refused to apologize yesterday for saying certain corrupt journalists deserved to be killed, but also challenged media workers to expose the “hypocrisy” in their ranks.

“Don’t f… with me,” Duterte told a press conference at past 9 last night. “You know, guys, you think too much of yourself… you want (to have) your cake and eat it too.”
He said he was ready to submit a list of journalists who served as mouthpieces of certain politicians and received bribes and “favors.”
“If worse comes to worse, we’ll expose each other,” he said. “I am ready to lose the presidency. Now. Or my honor, or my life. Just do not f… with me.”
He said the “vultures of journalism” were mostly the ones being murdered, as he challenged media groups to cleanse their ranks of corruption and “let’s unveil the hypocrisy.”
All the “lowlifes,” he said, “can die for all I care.”
Before opening himself to a profanity-laced question-and-answer portion, he said, “I’m through with my rantings.”
Earlier yesterday, his spokesman Salvador Panelo said Duterte would not say sorry.
“You only apologize if you committed something wrong, but the president-elect has not committed anything wrong with what he said,” Panelo told reporters.
During his press conference in Davao City Tuesday night, Duterte justified the killings of corrupt journalists. He even said one of them was a “son of a bitch” who deserved to die.
Panelo said what Duterte meant is that one “does not have to be a journalist to get killed. It will only happen to you if you have done something wrong and offended anyone.”
He described calls for Duterte to apologize as “misplaced.”
“Apparently, the things he said were misunderstood. They thought his statements not only justified media killings but even encouraged these incidents,” he said.
Panelo, who himself is under fire for being a lawyer of the Ampatuans who are facing trial for the 2009 Maguindanao massacre, acknowledged that “more media workers were killed because they were performing their job.
“But many of them were also killed because of personal reasons,” he added.
Panelo also maintained that the Duterte administration “is protective of the interests and rights of journalists, especially their freedom of expression.”
In a recent interview before Duterte’s controversial comment on the killings of corrupt journalists, The STAR asked the incoming president if he loved or hated the media.
“Of course, I love it. Whoever said I hated the media?” Duterte replied.
“What I said, I can have a word that you may not like me to characterize media. But it doesn’t mean to say that I do not like them,” he explained.
He also said that the media “plays a major role in a society, in a community where the voice of the people is given importance.”
“In some ways, it would be a guide and somebody who would be your partner in governance. That is why it is called the fourth estate, because if there is no media, you’ll never know that you are already sinking,” he added.
Duterte also said that in his 40-year career in government, the press has sufficiently covered him, including his personal life. “I think what is left is the good advice that you would learn from a report that is true,” he said.
“A minus, of course, is the media that are being used as a mouthpiece for the vested interest of the oligarchs, the owners of the media outlets. It could be TV or print,” he added.
What he does not like
There is one thing he particularly abhors: “It is really the angling in the media that I do not like. That is how media can be rotten.”
“For example, I was in a Rotary Club meeting and I was there to explain to the membership why I say profanities. I was already explaining that my profanities were because of the environment where I grew up. When I was young, we were in the Davao squatters’ area,” he explained.
“When it was reported by dzMM, the radio reported that Duterte does nothing but say profanities. They were there and I was explaining and yet that was what came out of their report,” he pointed out.
Duterte also said he is offended whenever he is asked about the state of his health during press conferences.
“‘How is your health?’ This question could be OK, but there was a follow-up question: ‘Can you show a medical report?’ Alam mo, pagka ganon nag-iinit ako (You know, I am pissed off by that). Because that is a very impertinent question and it has nothing to do with my health at the moment. I am not yet the president and you are interested if I will survive or not?” he said.
He also expressed dismay about his critics.
“They want to make it appear that there is a qualification that I cannot meet, that I am not healthy enough,” he fumed.
He told his critics that he would leave them to think what they want of him.
“So be it,” Duterte said. “That is the reason, my friend, why I am president and you are not.”
More flak
Duterte, however, drew more flak yesterday for his statement on media killings.
Ifugao Rep. Teddy Brawner Baguilat said Duterte’s statement was alarming because “not only does it encourage people to take the law into their own hands, it also encourages them to break the law for the wrong reason, circumstances that cannot be justified under any condition, especially in a society ruled by law.”
“The freedom of the press is one of the foundations of Philippine democracy. President-elect Duterte’s statement creates a chilling effect among journalists and threatens them to toe the line, or else. This is anathema to a democracy as it is this attitude precisely that has led to many journalists being killed,” he added.
Kabayan party-list Rep. Harry Roque warned that “the killing of journalists is the ultimate form of censorship.”
“These journalists were killed by people who are scared of the truth. Moreover, alleged corruption by members of the press does not make them legitimate targets of assassination,” he added.
Noel Sabayan, president of Kapisanan ng mga Brodkaster ng Pilipinas (KBP) Pangasinan chapter, said he does not believe journalists are killed because they are corrupt.
“The work of media is to tell the listeners or their readers the truth... Remember, any crime, violence or killing must not be tolerated and the government must exert effort to give justice to the victims,” he said.
“I think what he (Duterte) said that media men were killed because they were corrupt really came from his own thinking, but I hope such statements would have been avoided.
“I hope the government would open its eyes and heart in providing justice to victims of media killings, as many had risked their lives but no justice has been given up to now,” he added.
A group of college editors from Davao City also expressed dismay over Duterte’s statement.
The College Editors Guild of the Philippines (CEGP) Northern Mindanao chapter said Duterte cannot fully grasp the reality that media killings occur because they expose the corruption and injustices in their local government and community.
“The Guild is alarmed with the possible aggravation of atrocities done against journalists under the administration of the presumptive president,” the group said in a statement.
Despite the threat, CEGP said it would continue to condemn any form of suppression of the freedom of the press.
“There’s no room for press freedom violation that would alleviate our aspirations of using our pen for the people’s interest,” they added.
Fr. Jerome Secillano, parish priest of the Nuestra Señora del Perpetuo Socorro Parish in Sampaloc, Manila, said that even if a journalist is corrupt, it is still not a reason to end the person’s life.
“His statement against the media is a form of threat and intimidation. Granting that there are corrupt media practitioners, the state and whoever do not have the right to execute them without due process,” the priest noted.
“It will serve Duterte well if he strengthens this institution as a partner for good governance. It is also a challenge to the media to be an incorruptible institution and be authentic proclaimers of truth.
Defenders
For their part, Davao del Norte representative-elect Pantaleon Alvarez and Sen. Aquilino Pimentel III defended Duterte.
Pantaleon, Duterte’s choice to be the speaker of the House of Representatives in the 17th Congress, said Duterte was just stating facts that there are media practitioners who are corrupt.
Alvarez said he does not believe that the incoming president was endorsing the assassination of unscrupulous journalists as some reports indicated.
“There’s no such declaration – I don’t think he said it’s okay to kill media people who are corrupt,” Alvarez told reporters.
“It’s just like a statement, nothing personal, a mere observation and comment on his part,” he said.
Pimentel, president of PDP-Laban, said his partymate’s statement was just misinterpreted.
Pimentel also pointed out that Duterte has been consistent in his position to impose the stiffest penalties against drug pushers, rapists and murderers and so it was clear that he does not condone the killing of any person. – With Alexis Romero, Marvin Sy, Paolo Romero, Eva Visperas, Mayen Jaymalin, and Evelyn Macairan"

In 3 weeks it will be OK by the President to kill- anyone accused of any crime, especially 'drugs', journalists for any reason & anybody who 'gave you a good reason'.

Many Filipinos think this dirty Harry President will fix everything- my bold prediction is the Philippines will break records. Already the second most deadly country to be a journalist, already full of murder for hire cops & billionaire public servants. 9/10 chance of extreme violence overtaking the country, 50% a full blown civil war.

[Sixstrings]

Carter said the U.S. has no plans to change course.

“With respect to our relationship with the Philippines, that is an alliance relationship. We take that very seriously,” Carter said. “It is, as we say, ironclad. It is with a democracy, and so they have a new government. We look forward to working with them.”
http://www.salon.com/2016/06/02/defense_secretary_carter_us_philippines_relationship_stable/

SG: I don't think there will be any large scale chaos or "civil war" in the philippines, given its strategic importance.

As for Duterte.. wow, that sounds like failed state warlord rule, or something. Again though, because of its strategic importance to the US (and Australia, and Japan, allied pacific defense overall), I would think that the state department and obama administration will likely begin intervening in some way to keep things stable there.

edit: this isn't a geopolitics thread, but Duterte will probably triangulate between China and the US:

In this scenario, Manila would seek security benefits from the U.S. defense umbrella and economic returns from trade and investment with China. If successful, it could relieve tensions in the Philippines-U.S.-China triangular relations and, by default, in the South China Sea.

The net effect would be slightly cooler relations with Washington and warmer relations with Beijing -- but effective cooperation with each.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/opinions/duterte-us-philippines/

[Sixstrings]

I sweden, thinghs have started escalating. Our guests are so dissatisfied with the swedish society that they won't let ambulances or the firebrigades pass. The swedish police dare not interfere if the see our guests behaving inproperly. This is not anti-guest propaganda, This is facts

Sweden should probably stop immigration from problematic areas of the world, for a while.

Is there no way to do that, without it being a far right fascist thing?

Even the Dalai Lama says Europe has too many refugees:

Dalai Lama says there are 'too many refugees in Europe'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/dalai-lama-says-too-many-refugees-in-europe-a7058911.html

[SeaGypsy]

God you say some stupid shit 6. You contradict my statement with 'not gunna happen, too strategically important to the US' really if that is what you've got keep it off my thread. You are a real ignoramus on affairs in my region & should butt out.

[Sixstrings]

God you say some stupid shit 6. You contradict my statement with 'not gunna happen, too strategically important to the US' really if that is what you've got keep it off my thread. You are a real ignoramus on affairs in my region & should butt out.

If the US Navy needs a critical naval base, do you really think the US government is gonna let the country "fall into civil war?"

Why are you getting upset.

Read what defense secretary Ash Carter said -- the alliance with Philippines is "IRONCLAD." Ironclad means, "it ain't goin' away." Ergo, no, I don't think it's likely the state department and administration would allow Philippines to fall into mad max civil war.

[Tanada]

God you say some stupid shit 6. You contradict my statement with 'not gunna happen, too strategically important to the US' really if that is what you've got keep it off my thread. You are a real ignoramus on affairs in my region & should butt out.

If the US Navy needs a critical naval base, do you really think the US government is gonna let the country "fall into civil war?"

Why are you getting upset.

Read what defense secretary Ash Carter said -- the alliance with Philippines is "IRONCLAD." Ironclad means, "it ain't goin' away." Ergo, no, I don't think it's likely the state department and administration would allow Philippines to fall into mad max civil war.

First off the USA gave up most of its basing rights in the Philippines going on 30 years ago.

Second, this is not some small population country that can just be pushed around like say Jamaica. If you would pick up a history book you would know that USA army troops fought the native population for three long bloody years to suppress them and get those bases we gave up a few decades ago. At that time the natives had no outside support, just a grim hatred for the US Army forces that were conquering the islands. Since then the population has quadrupled, more or less, and the USA has lost its inclination to actually conquer and hold territory.

Third, the USA has options to base naval forces at many islands not part of the Philippines, Ash Carter is just quoting the status quo talking points like any other politicians. IOW he doesn't know his fecal exit from a hole in the ground.

[SeaGypsy]

Actually Tanada, the population was under 10 million when the US took control after the Franco American war. It has multiplied by 10+ since. Cory Aquino changed the constitution & banned all foreign military bases in her first year or so in office after the 'people power- EDSA revolution ousted Marcos.

Two close friends of mine work as US military contractors in the Philippines, one is an emergency flying doctor, the other trains front line AFP soldiers in first aid. There are two long running insurgencies, the Moro, southern Muslims- divided into the almost now mainstream MILF vs extremist Abu Sayef & the NPA, communists, working like a shadow government throughout most of the central & northern islands, growing vast amounts of hash, making amphetamines, smuggling anything there is a market for including trucks & cars & rice. Both insurgencies regularly engage in firefight with AFP, both military & police, & often many die on both sides. One morning a truckload of soldiers drove up the wrong road & went to the wrong karaoke joint, 10 miles from my wife's village, next morning all 11 of them were found bound & gagged with their genitals cut off, they bled to death like that. There was no reprisal, barely any follow up.

The Philippines is a wild country & it is ripe for revolution, thirsty for blood, & now has a leader who is giving carte blanche to the Darwin principle. It has SFA to do with America or American interests. The yanks have made & will make only token efforts at securing the Philippines, until the constitution is changed again to welcome fully foreign controlled bases- Duterte will not do it, nor would Robredo, the VP, & the people are consistently strongly against such change in the 70+% range. So no 6, the US has almost no influence on the big issues inside the Philippines, & that isn't about to change. Duterte wants business with China, not war, but he may well be too busy to do a damned thing about Panatang, Scarborough etc. He plans to kill a lot of people. He has said he expects to dump 40,000 corpses of 'criminals' into Manila bay. I promise you he won't do anything like that without provoking sheer chaos right across the country.

[Plantagenet]

Fascist-style street fighting was on full display at the Trump rally in San Jose yesterday. San Jose leftists gathered and took over the streets---burning the American flag and vandalizing cars and property and beating the people and who had come to attend a political rally.

Fascism in the 1930s was national socialism---i.e. it came from the leftist socialist movement. It began with Nazi brown shirt mobs who would attack other political groups in the street.

Similarly the neo-fascist mobs attacking people in the streets of the US today are on the left and are attacking other political groups in the street.

Coincidence? Perhaps.........

[SeaGypsy]

Duterte is aligned with CPP & NPA, having promised to bring the exiled communist leader home & amnesty thousands of murders & other crimes.

[Lore]

This is what you get when you call down the thunder. One thing you can be certain of, bullies always attract trouble.

From what I gather and the looks of the Trump protesters, all of them are at the most 30 with the majority being much younger. If they are anything, most of them seem to be young anarchists with no affiliation or agenda other then just looking for trouble.

[ROCKMAN]

Lore - Obviously fascism isn't new...been around for ever. I think what will grow is acceptance (if not outright support) by more folks who were moderates when times were better but are then faced with a significant degradation of the lifestyle. Easy to make the analogy to Germany in the 20's/30's. As life became less pleasant after WWI the Nazis party had a progressively easier time developing support from a significant portion of the population. A group that would not have normally been as anxious to punish the innocents for their situation. Had the world not punished Germany for the war as severely as it did there's a possibility that WWII might have been avoided. Likewise had the US not embargoed Japan's oil their nationalism surge might not have led to Pearl Harbor.

Just a lot of "what ifs", of course. Like want if a significant number of Americans increasing felt neglected by the govt and began supporting a rather radical new political agenda. Naa...that would never happen.

[sparky]

.
Complete ignorance of fascism as a social movement ,
it was a populist reaction against a corrupt and ineffective Italian political system led by a socialist member of parliament ( Mussolini )
the large support came from returned servicemen , disgusted by the way front line soldiers lives had been carelessly thrown away in hundred of thousand by stupid arrogant politicians and officers who would care more for their horses than for their fellow citizens .
Same happened in Germany with the steel helmet movement , in Hungary , Romania , Australia , Britain , USA , France .....

morality...... if one do not want the yokels to revolt , keep the casualties down

What is the position of each candidate on war in far off countries ?

[Loki]

Far too much has been made of the so-called rise of fascism in the media and in leftist circles. Trump is not a fascist. UKIP is not fascist. Front National is not fascist. Fascist is just an ad hom sloppily thrown around by the left, and means nothing more than someone or something they don't like. Has about as much meaning as "doody head."

If we take the narrowest definition of fascism, Mussolini's "merger of state and corporate power," we see that Hillary Clinton is a fascist through and through, as are most members of the political elite, at least in the US. But this, of course, doesn't capture the full meaning of fascism.

What we are seeing is a breakdown in the neo-liberal consensus that has governed the US and Europe for decades. I think John Greer captured this masterfully in his post Donald Trump and the Politics of Resentment. The political elite and the upper echelons of the salary class have been waging, and winning, a class war for decades. They're now experiencing the backlash. But to call this populist turn "fascist" is an abuse of language and doesn't come close to describing what's actually going on.

Not to say real fascism isn't experiencing something of a revival, but it's very much on the fringe, at least in the US and Europe (the Phillippines may be an exception, not a part of the world I pay attention to). The Guardian did a nice breakdown of the populist turn in Europe. They write: "What is on the march across Europe may not be the far right, but distrust, disillusion, even full-scale rejection of the political establishment." That's exactly what's going on in the US as well.

[Sixstrings]

First off the USA gave up most of its basing rights in the Philippines going on 30 years ago.

Well, they've been doing more and more out there lately, and they just signed up for new basing rights:

The U.S. military is moving into these 5 bases in the Philippines

A new agreement between the United States and the Philippines clears the way for a new permanent American military presence across five bases that will support rotational deployments near the contested South China Sea.

The bases include:

Antonio Bautista Air Base. Located near the capital of the island province of Palawan, which is strategically located near the contested Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.

Basa Air Base. Located about 40 miles northwest of the Philippines' capital, Manila, the air base was originally constructed by the U.S. Army Air Corps before the Second World War.

Fort Magsaysay. Located on the northern Island of Luzon, Fort Magsaysay is the largest military installation in the Philippines, and is one of the primary training areas of the Philippine Army.

Lumbia Air Base. Located on the southern island of Mindanao, the air base is connected to a civilian airport. Local media reports say construction of a new U.S. facility will begin soon.

Mactan-Benito Ebuen Air Base. Located on Mactan Island of the coast of Cebu in the central Philippines. It was originally built by the U.S. Air Force before the American pullout in the early 1990s.

The U.S. will be setting up “permanent logistics facilities to support rotational deployments,” said one defense official familiar with the agreement. The Pentagon is likely to invest heavily on construction projects to enhance capacity at those five bases.

The agreement was finalized Friday.

The rotational presence could, in effect, leave U.S. military assets and personnel on the ground in the Philippines for long periods if the missions are approved by the government in Manila.

The U.S. military presence in the Philippines, a former American colony, was once fiercely opposed by many Filipinos, partly because of notorious rowdy behavior and misconduct that was common among troops during the Vietnam era when the Philippines offered war fighters a respite from the combat zone. That led to the complete withdrawal of U.S. forces in the early 1990s.

But the Filipino government has recently sought new support from the United States as China has grown more aggressive in asserting territorial claims and conducting military-style operations near Filipino shores.

The list of bases surprised many analysts who expected it to include some of the former U.S. military outposts such as Naval Station Subic Bay and Naval Air Station Cubi Point, both strategically located on the northwest coast, or Clark Air Base near Manila. Those facilities were a backbone of logistics support during the Vietnam War.

It's likely that the American presence there will grow slowly because China's activities have threatened the stability of the region, which includes vital trade routes for global economy.

"I suspect that it will ramp up slowly," said Jan van Tol, a retired U.S. Navy captain and senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments in Washington. "A suddenly much larger U.S. presence, even if just a rotational presence, that can be seen, certainty in Beijing, that this is a ratcheting up of a U.S.-Chinese competition in the South China Sea."
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2016/03/21/us-plans-use-five-new-bases-philippines/82072138/

It's "rotational" for now, but the plan is to gradually ramp up presence.

Pentagon is planning to spend a lot of money on bases.

My opinion -- the US never should have lost a handle on the Philippines to start with, back in the 80s or whenever that was.

The Philippines is very important strategically for Pacific defense and operations. That's never changed, going back a century when the US took it from Spain to start with -- it's super strategic, sitting right there in the middle of everything, near China, southeast asia, etc.

Without the Philippines then the western defense border is HAWAII. That's not smart.

Far better to have some big US navy and air force bases on the Philippines, and let China mix it up with us out THERE. When you move defense lines back, then the adversary just advances to the new one. (potentially if we leave there then China would have bases there.. and then that's Australia starting to get hemmed in too and the Australian government wouldn't like that)

That's just my opinion, anyway. Philippines isn't even like east europe or the ME or anywhere else, the Philippines is important for our national defense in the pacific.

The US military ought to be doing a lot more out there, get those old american bases back and open those too.

And if the Chinese don't like it they can go pound salt, the Philippines was American a century before there ever was a modern China.

I'm not saying to provoke China in the south china sea, more than what's reasonable, but I am saying that Philippines is a different story -- there ought to be a lot of US navy cruising all around the maritime borders of the Philippines, it ought to be THICK with US Navy.

It's no different than it was in the 19th century, that's a very strategic location.

Back on topic to Duterte -- when Ash Carter says US alliance with the Philippines is "IRONCLAD" -- again, that means it "it ain't goin' away." That means it's strategically important.

The Pentagon is about to spend a lot of money there on those bases. It's a strategic spot. Therefore, I think the US gov would start stepping in and influencing things and therefore no there won't be "mad max civil war" in the Philippines.

P.S. Unless things change and strategy changes and we become great friends with China or something, then otherwise there's four spots important in the pacific to keep China where it is.. US presence in south korea, Japan, Philippines, and then also we've always got to keep Indonesia as a US ally.

That's what constitutes the ring of the pacific security umbrella, which protects Australia too.

It's just a very strategic spot:



It's closer to where everything is, than Australian bases are.

It's a forward operating base / presence, as far out in the pacific as we can get without truly being confrontational, like an agreement with Vietnam for bases (Obama just made an arms agreement with Vietnam and had a big visit).

But vietnam is too close. And Japan is too far north, for that to be our only presence.

Philippines is perfect location, just right, it's like the Tennessee of the pacific -- a good central hub, close to everything.