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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 19 Sep 2018, 11:09:27

I believe YOUR analysis is too shallow, OS. For one thing, the plug-in hybrid and the ICE-only version of the SAME CHASSIS are in fact different classes of vehicles, performance-wise. The ICE in a PHEV is smaller than the version in the ICE-only vehicle, with lower output. The extra 700 lbs of powertrain pieces and battery does indeed hamper acceleration and handling and impose greater stresses on suspension, brakes, and tires.

If you are enamored of PHEV tech, you tend to overlook the realities imposed by Physics. Note I AM enamored of PHEVs and EVs in general. But I'm also a realist. PHEVs and HEVs are slow and ponderous, unless they have a "performance mode" where BOTH ICE and electric motor are used for acceleration. In that case forget about 25% fuel savings.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 00:30:59

asg70 wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:And where does this automated car pick you up today?

If there's one universal constant in the thought-process of doomers, is the notion that we've reached the end of progress and all predictions of the future should be treated as vaporware.

The reason it's a talking point today is that the pace of change in technology is fast. The world tends to talk about what's around the next bend and then...it's here. It's happened enough times that it's fair to say that it's likely to come to pass, especially considering the literal arms-race in R&D being invested towards it. The likelihood nobody will crack autonomy and it will be in industry-wide boondoggle is low. It's only a matter of time.

True enough.

But as an enthusiastic follower of the progress in various technologies, I think it's a FAR different thing to have doubts about fully automated cars (true level 5 tech needed for fully automated taxis) being here any time soon (not for a small area, but for everywhere), and the Cassandras who, for example, deny that BEV's can work because they can't work for a subset of the population -- today.

And not only do you have the technology issue -- truly getting them to where they're, say, 10X better than people overall, and able to handle virtually all driving conditions a person can -- but then you have to get government, insurance, the legal community, etc. to WAKE UP and figure out how to make it all work during the transitional people, when random human drivers are a big issue for the safety of all cars on the road.

I was close on what happened with computers on the road to being better than humans at chess, despite getting yelled at by various chess grandmasters who were convinced that because they were (much) better than I am at chess, that my insight and practical experience as a serious computer programmer (including writing chess programs before many existed), somehow didn't matter. (They universally thought that somehow, no chess program could ever beat THEM, Moore's law be damned, and full-tilt on the emotion. Sheesh.)

While my confidence level for fully self driving prediction to be good enough to make fully automated cabs commonplace is lower, I think we're talking in terms of decades, given all the issues.

Unlike with BEV's and PHEV's which are here and working, and now it's just a question of the speed of the cost and battery efficiency improvement curve, as far as the rate of uptake by consumers.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 00:47:20

KaiserJeep wrote:I believe YOUR analysis is too shallow, OS. For one thing, the plug-in hybrid and the ICE-only version of the SAME CHASSIS are in fact different classes of vehicles, performance-wise. The ICE in a PHEV is smaller than the version in the ICE-only vehicle, with lower output. The extra 700 lbs of powertrain pieces and battery does indeed hamper acceleration and handling and impose greater stresses on suspension, brakes, and tires.

If you are enamored of PHEV tech, you tend to overlook the realities imposed by Physics. Note I AM enamored of PHEVs and EVs in general. But I'm also a realist. PHEVs and HEVs are slow and ponderous, unless they have a "performance mode" where BOTH ICE and electric motor are used for acceleration. In that case forget about 25% fuel savings.

With respect, given your position and arguments re things like AGW, I don't think you're in a position to argue "the realities imposed by physics" without some serious citations.

Well, we can forget about the 25% fuel savings, since the fuel savings is actually significantly higher, as I pointed out, so there's that. And the good, late generation HEV's DO use both motors for acceleration, and have a higher horsepower output with those motors combined where I've looked than the pure ICE version. Which is a key reason WHY they're not slow and ponderous. I just verified this for both the modern Camry and Accord 4 cylinder ICE vs. hybrid HP output.

As I said, the PHEV is more ponderous, less comfortable, etc. due to lugging the big battery. No argument there.

OTOH, in BEV mode, getting an MPG equivalent (MPGe) of over 100 is more like a 300% improvement over the ICE re efficiency, not the 25% number you're claiming. So for the PHEV class, you're 25% number makes no sense to me at all.

Show me real world data from real car reviewers that shows that current generation HEV's are "slow and ponderous" and I'll buy it. They were 10 years ago. Many of them still were 5 years ago. Not so much anymore -- the car companies compete, and they want to sell cars.

I think the professional car reviewers as a class have a fair amount on the ball -- they have to in order to make a living reporting on cars.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 04:43:24

Speaking as somebody who retired in Silicon Valley after a 37 year career in the computer business, of which 29 years were in the valley (plus 3 years of retirement, also in the valley), that is a pile of stinking bovine crap you just posted.

I am not a member of the Musk-worshippers, but Tesla is a well-regarded place to work here in the valley. Anybody who believes that the working conditions, attitudes about organised labor, or employee relations at Tesla are in any way different from any typical Silly Valley firm is ignorant beyond belief. The Silly Valley has the highest productivity per employee of any place in the USA, and it isn't from working 40 hour weeks.

Note also that Tesla makes a vehicle called a "BEV". That stands for "Battery Electric Vehicle", a form of zero emissions vehicle that burns no fuel and emits no greenhouse gases in operation, which anybody with two brain cells to rub together would understand. Before you bring it up, 90% of the Teslas and other BEVs are registered here in California, the only place where we make most of our electric grid energy without burning Fossil Fuels.

If you want any respect here in this Forum, learn to think before you post, and be prepared to defend anything you cut and paste.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 08:33:11

Why post someone's rant from last year, it has nothing to do with the virtues of EV's or anything about their usage, power consumption, range etc.
It's just one person's rant!
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 08:39:50

Actually, it's a rant from one silly ignoramus. .
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 09:11:04

Yonnipun wrote:Of course capitalists are all pieces of crap. That goes without saying.


Is this supposed to be an appeal to authority or something? There's little about this blog rant that has any value in this debate. It carries no more weight than a Starving Lion rant.

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-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 09:25:57

I suspect that "Yonnipun" either IS this Robert Lindsy person, or is somebody trying to publicise his site and increase his web traffic. Certainly Yonnipun has never conributed much here that I can remember.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Yonnipun » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 10:13:41

KaiserJeep wrote:I suspect that "Yonnipun" either IS this Robert Lindsy person, or is somebody trying to publicise his site and increase his web traffic. Certainly Yonnipun has never conributed much here that I can remember.


I just found his website. He is a genius with iq over 150. I only cut n pasted some relevant staff from his homepage.

Another goldmine I found lately :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBZQgtEnyLo

Rick Rosner iq is over 190. Just listen those guys. They talk much about staff that is relevant on this forum.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby GHung » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 10:21:30

Moved to the capitalism thread.
Last edited by GHung on Sun 23 Sep 2018, 10:31:08, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 10:26:36

Image

Porsche reportedly hopes to shift its sales volume almost exclusively over to electrified vehicles in the next several years.

The switchover of these models would reportedly occur in a window between 2022 and 2025, laying the foundation for 75 percent of Porsche sales to be electrified sometime early next decade.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 10:30:29

Veering back on course, Porsche are to stop producing diesel vehicles.
The German carmaker Porsche says it will stop making diesel cars, and concentrate on petrol, electric and hybrid engines instead.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45619994
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 18 Oct 2018, 14:24:22

Google Maps adds EV charging locations around the world


Google announced that it will add electric vehicle charging stations to Google Maps from several networks around the world.

A quick search for keywords like “EV charging”, “EV charging stations” or any other similar term on Google Maps will display the nearest supported stations.

To help you make a quick decision about which station to use, Google Maps will show you information about the business where the station is located, the types of ports available, charging speeds, and how many ports there are. You’ll also see information about the station from drivers, including photos, ratings, reviews and questions.

In addition, businesses that have EV charging stations will now feature a link to information about the chargers.

Google Maps now supports charging stations around the world, including:

Global: Tesla, Chargepoint
US: SemaConnect, EVgo, Blink
UK: Chargemaster, Pod Point
AU & NZ: Chargefox

https://electriccarsreport.com/2018/10/ ... the-world/
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 26 Oct 2018, 08:55:02

"we are coming for you"

Let's get real. Solar cars are glorified bikes. If you want to feel like you're part of a movement, fine, but they're no threat. The "we" in the "we are coming for you" is going to be a transition executed primarily by the legacy automakers themselves.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 26 Oct 2018, 11:56:27

pstarr wrote:Guys like asgy...


Guys like pstarr rot away in pot county California banging on a keyboard telling everyone else how inferior their lifestyle is and how the suburbs will crash and burn somewhere in the perpetually near-future. How pathetic.

Image

See, I can do ad homs too, and it doesn't really accomplish anything.

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-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 04 Nov 2018, 22:50:14

Enough quadricycle silliness. Back to REAL news. Here's the first interview I've seen with the guy leading Electrify America's fast-charging network in the US:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub22gyybWhg

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-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Cog » Mon 05 Nov 2018, 05:16:58

What source are you going to use for total global production for 2018 and 2019? I'm guessing you are referring to just crude oil and not corn liquor.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 05 Nov 2018, 10:52:34

Baha, don't forget the basics.

A charging station that recharges from the (78% FF-powered) grid is simply moving pollution from a car exhaust to a FF power plant. A solar charging kiosk is no good at night, when most BEVs need daily recharging. Battery storage for rechargers increases costs so much that (considering overall lifecycle costs) a simple small fuel-efficient car harms the environment the least today.

Yes, I understand that times are changing, ever so slowly. But an Advocate pretty much blinds himself more than anyone else.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 05 Nov 2018, 13:24:02

pstarr wrote:Same deal i offered some other d#ck troll: $1,000 says peak called before the end of 2019? You in?
...
Off topic.


First, you're the one who is off-topic inserting peak-oil bets into an EV thread.
Second, given that you are the ideological twin of Short, the odds of you covering a bet are slim to none.

Thirdly, when was the last time you had something useful to contribute here?

Image

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Cog » Mon 05 Nov 2018, 15:40:24

pstarr wrote:
Cog wrote:What source are you going to use for total global production for 2018 and 2019? I'm guessing you are referring to just crude oil and not corn liquor.

Off topic.

You already ran from the same bet. If you include me in your signature like asgy, I will raise it to $1,500. On? Then we can discuss details. BTW, as per our original bet . . . you set it up. Collateral and all



Yes this is off topic but in order to consider wagering with you, I need to know from what source of total global production for 2018 and 2019 that we are basing this wager on. If I am satisfied it's a legit based site, I will consider making the wager with you and escrow the money for it.

What I'm saying Pete is we need to agree on a source for total gobal oil production for 2018 and 2019 before we lock in the wager. That way there is no quibbling and argument like with shorty.
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