[julianj]

I think you should read my review of Short Circuit here:

Short Circuit by Richard Douthwaite

It's a free online book which deals with how to relocalise your economy and includes creating local currencies (LETS= Local Exchange Trading Systems]

cheers

Julian

[mindfarkk]

thanks for the link, sounds like a pretty cool read!

i guess my concerns about precious metals is remembering vaguely some 20-30 years ago that the market value of gold took a huge drop. so i'm wondering what it will really be worth. like real estate, i don't want to buy at hyperinflated prices.

also - not sure if you mean invest in gold, or buy gold bricks to bury under the porch.

[marek]

In 1966, Alan Greenspan wrote:

" (The) abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit…In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value, as was done in the case of gold…The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves… (This) is the shabby secret of the welfare statist's tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the 'hidden' confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights."

This reminds me of the famous statement by Keynes:

The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens.

[Falconoffury]

I just want to bump this and reinforce the message. Do not trust the banks. There will come a day where the banks tell you that you can't have your money. I would advise against keeping all your assets in one currency held in one or more bank accounts. Take a portion of your savings out of the bank while you still can. Save more than one currency. Keep some of your assets where you can physically get to them. Yes, inflation is a way that your money is secretly and quietly stolen, but don't forget that the banks can sit there and say, "all your money are belong to us". Bank vaults are not just good for keeping out thieves. They are good at keeping out people who have money in them.

[gary_malcolm]

Do not trust the banks. There will come a day where the banks tell you that you can't have your money.

Right you are my friend. Remember Argentina? At some point the debt bubble must pop and it'll be the first lemming (er... central bank) that has the needle in it's hand.

The US gov't is burdened with nearly 7 Trillion in bonds ON the books, and about 50 Trillion in future revenue promises to SSI. God only knows how many Trillions the populace holds in Consumer Debt, Auto Loans, and Home Loans that they think have some sort of intrinsic collateral value.

In the US this is called the Ownership Society.

A bump or two in the wrong direction will set up a banking system auto-destruct that will make the Savings and Loan Scandal look like a joke.

[TheGreatBankRipYouOff]

Of all the scams, banking, fiat, or fractional reserve banking is the greatest way to separate a rube (you) from your wealth. Not 1 in 100,000, maybe 1 in 1,000,000 graps the way this system works to transfer the wealth of producers into the hands of bankers.

So as a matter of fact, the premise of this thread is more misdirection. The real scam is out in the opened and hence not viewed as a scam, since it is an acceptable part of our modern world. The issue is not that some bank will not make good on its liabilities, but that the monopoly granted to banks to loan new money into existence at interest is the greatest scam ever imagined.

Just drive around the US and find me a bank building that is a falling down delapated structure. Well, in fact paritcularly in rural dieing towns, the bank building is the only one that is modern and well maintained.

I am an old man now; I have a masters degree in accounting from LSU and my first job was with Arthur Andersen & Co., back when this firm was the premier accounting firm. I specialized in tax law and one of the clients assigned to me was a major bank in the city where I lived. That is when I first found out how banking worked. This was a shock to me, since I was just an ordinary person who was attracted to accounting because my grandfather, who I admired greatly, was an accountant who was involved with the Dupont family in Delaware. I did not understand when I chose my career that accountants were privy to the most importand secrets of clients, and that this secrecy was a sacred oath. Men have died for betraying the oath that professionals have to secrecy.

The agreement between the banking industry and the major governments of the world is the invisible chain of your enslavement. I don't have the energy to describe this deal, but there are plenty of sources that describe how government grants this monopoly to a select group so that they can operate as the bankers and then the bankers get rich by trapping the majority of the population in debt to the banks via newly created paper, and also the banking system supports the government via unlimited loans to fund overspending (really a rape of taxpayers by taking purchasing power thur inflation rather than taxes).

Any of you who support government in even the smallest degree have been had. You go vote for con artist who are doing nothing but screw you. I guess you really deserve your screwing cause most of you are willing partners in what is being done to you and your children.

[Falconoffury]

Long live precious metals!

And you should have voted for Nader.

[marek]

GOLD AND US STOCKS CRASHING DOWN WITH LOW BOND YIELD– SIGNS OF DEFLATION AND ECONOMIC DEPRESSION -- by Gold News Weekly
As the new year started, the US stock market and the Gold market started crashing down. If the technical picture is correct, stock may lose 40% of its current value in the next six months. The formation of the head and shoulder pattern coupled with stocks' decisively breaking down the cannel after forming a solid straight moving average convergence and divergence line for more than seven weeks is bearish. The Gold market is showing even worse signs. Gold can test $300 an oz in next six months also.
http://www.goldnewsweekly.com/commentar ... rc_E_flash

SILVER: ABOUT 300 TIMES TOO CHEAP http://www.goldnewsweekly.com/commentar ... &src=flash
My comment last week was brought to Jim Sinclair's attention by my readers and not by me. Jim Sinclair, for those of you who don't know, is known as "Mr. Gold". He was a "leader" in the last gold bull market in 1980, selling at the exact top (or causing the top), and is widely regarded as a genius by many in the gold world. (Although many also see him as a bit eccentric.) Jim Sinclair has a wide following, and he often degrades most other "gold advisors". Most notably and recently, Jim said he would stop his commentary if gold did not exceed about $470/oz. sometime this fall. Jim was wrong,

WHEN SILVER HITS THE WALL - WILL IT REACH $100? http://www.goldnewsweekly.com/commentar ... &src=flash
We have all heard the projections for the coming silver prices, $50, $100, $200, or higher. Some claim that silver will even reach parity with gold. I have owned silver on and off nearly 30 years and have read most everything I can get my hands on regarding silver for the last 10 years.

The bullish case for silver was well made with Jim Blanchard and Franklin Sanders "Silver Bonanza" in the mid 1990s, and the case for silver has only grown much stronger since then. This piece is treating the coming silver bull as inevitable, whether this year, next year, or five years from now

[marek]

I don't doubt there will be a silver rally at some point - but why do they anticipate such a collapse in the price of gold? If technical analysis really worked, why would someone buy the gold that the "techies" were selling? The other issue is the American Question - if you're so smart, why aren't you rich? In other words, why do they give out advice instead of doing it themselves and making fortunes?

[smallpoxgirl]

The bullish case for silver was well made with Jim Blanchard and Franklin Sanders "Silver Bonanza" in the mid 1990s, and the case for silver has only grown much stronger since then. This piece is treating the coming silver bull as inevitable, whether this year, next year, or five years from now

Could you give a synopsis of the arguement? Is there some industrial importance to silver that I don't understand? I can only think of maybe four things made from silver
1. Jewlery
2. Photographic film - demand decreasing w/ upsurge in digital cameras.
3. Silver nitrate sticks - deal that looks like a fireplace match used to stop bleeding.
4. Coloidal silver - the cure-all tonic of the right wing fringe.

[BabyPeanut]

4. Coloidal silver - the cure-all tonic of the right wing fringe.

http://homepages.together.net/~rjstan/

[BabyPeanut]

Could you give a synopsis of the arguement? Is there some industrial importance to silver that I don't understand?

http://www.silverinstitute.org/supply/index.php

Industrial use of silver is the largest component of silver fabrication demand, with silver being used in a wide range of products. Stronger economic growth in 2003 helped silver industrial demand to rise 9.7 Moz to reach 351.2 Moz. Electrical and electronics applications account for the largest area of industrial silver offtake, consuming nearly 147.2 Moz, particularly in East Asia. Brazing alloys and solders are other important industrial uses of silver, taking up 37.5 Moz in 2003.

[Kingcoal]

The bullish case for silver was well made with Jim Blanchard and Franklin Sanders "Silver Bonanza" in the mid 1990s, and the case for silver has only grown much stronger since then. This piece is treating the coming silver bull as inevitable, whether this year, next year, or five years from now

Could you give a synopsis of the arguement? Is there some industrial importance to silver that I don't understand? I can only think of maybe four things made from silver
1. Jewlery
2. Photographic film - demand decreasing w/ upsurge in digital cameras.
3. Silver nitrate sticks - deal that looks like a fireplace match used to stop bleeding.
4. Coloidal silver - the cure-all tonic of the right wing fringe.

5. Silver is used extensively in the electronics industry because it is the best conductor available. Gold is used extensively in switch contacts because it is a very good conductor and does not oxidize. Unlike gold, a lot of silver is sitting in waste dumps because it is so useful.

Lenin once said that grain is the best currency. Before the Green Revolution, the US was exporting grain all over the world. In exchange for that grain, they often got gold.

[The_Virginian]

Lenin once said that grain is the best currency

Grain makes beer.

Lenin may have had Tertiary Syphylis, but his head was in the right place in regards to Grain.

Aren't gold and silver mesured in grains?

Well there ya go!

[smallpoxgirl]

http://homepages.together.net/~rjstan/

Wow! I never heard of that before. Good to know.

[spot5050]

stock may lose 40% of its current value in the next six months

The Gold market is showing even worse signs. Gold can test $300 an oz in next six months also.

Hi marek, this is interesting for me.

Would you like to place a bet on which way stocks and gold will move in the next six months? I challenged a couple of very confident posters here last year to put their money where their mouths were, but neither responded to my throwing down of the gauntlett. How confident are you?

[rerere]

Is there some industrial importance to silver that I don't understand?

If oil needs to fuel the industry - if there is no oil, how can the industry run to NEED the silver?

In a post-oil "hydrogen" economy, the catalysts that drive fuel cells will still be needed.

Gold and silver, while interesting, don't DO anything other than look prutty. If things become a survival mode - having gold/silver when you need grain/bullets/clean water/et la - well, now won't you feel silly?

[marek]

Well, these were NOT my predictions but ones distributed to precious metal investors (there are many arguments to the contrary).

I think that U.S. consumers are running out of steam due to debt. Most analysts said this might have been the last Xmas season of this magnitude. Look at this.

Stocks will probably go down, but I would hold on to energy stocks (my favorites: ExxonMobil, Suncor, Headwaters, Petrocanada, Exelon, E.ON). Recently, China has been murmuring about increasing its gold imports. If that is true, then this year might be bullish on gold. The weakening dollar will not substantially affect the trade deficit. For one, the renminbi is still fixed to the dollar, so the decline will not impact the trade with China. Secondly, the U.S. has gotten rid of so much manufacturing that it may need to import many things at any cost. So the effect of a declining dollar will be predominantly visible as inflation rather than the balancing of the current account. Sure, the deficit might go down somewhat, but not by as much as if there were a possibility of substituting domestic products for foreign ones (again, the manufacturing base has evaporated when it comes to many products). That will make the dollar fall even farther to reestablish equilibrium. This means that Germany and Japan, with their export-driven economies are screwed (unless most of their trade is protected by long-term futures contracts, in which the speculators are screwed and there might be chaos in the futures market). Therefore, I expect a big downward correction on the European and Japanese stock market by the end of the year, especially a decline in the XETRA DAX and the NIKKEI indices. Remember that since the renminbi is tied to the dollar, the appreciation of the euro against the dollar means that the Euroland is having a harder time exporting to China as well. The appreciation of the yen against the dollar and renminbi has the same consequences for Japan.

[marek]

Is there some industrial importance to silver that I don't understand?

If oil needs to fuel the industry - if there is no oil, how can the industry run to NEED the silver?

In a post-oil "hydrogen" economy, the catalysts that drive fuel cells will still be needed.

Gold and silver, while interesting, don't DO anything other than look prutty. If things become a survival mode - having gold/silver when you need grain/bullets/clean water/et la - well, now won't you feel silly?

You will need silver to produce photovoltaic systems, palladium to crack long-chained hydrocarbons (from tar sands and oil shale, say) to gasoline, platinum to produce fuel cells, etc. If the society doesn't fully collapse, the effort to switch to more sustainable systems of energy (especially electricity) production will increase demand for precious metals. Besides, silver was used as a means of payment for centuries, before the age of oil. It was useful because its stock was scarce (like that of salt in the Middle Ages).

[PenultimateManStanding]

Besides, silver was used as a means of payment for centuries, before the age of oil. It was useful because its stock was scarce (like that of salt in the Middle Ages).

For you hard core preparedness advocates, Morton salt is really cheap for now.