[Plantagenet]

Cuba was the only sustainable developed country maybe they will become the default collapse level we should all aspire to.

Now that Obama has opened up Cuba it won't be long until there is a McDonald's on every corner and Bank of America branches in every town and nice new beachfront planned communities lining the coast, each bustling with construction of second homes for American retirees.

Thats not exactly my idea of sustainable development.

[Shaved Monkey]

Give it time everything will collapse back to sustainability.
We are just a worthless deluded blimp on a time line.

[Outcast_Searcher]

2. The US political leadership has mauled healthcare.

...

I would love to see Cuba become a mecca for
Americans to receive affordable minor surgery and treatment not affordable or possible
from the money sucking monster America and it's paid for pols afflicted it's citizens with.

True about the US mauling health care. OTOH, given the results of Russian health care (life expectancy of around 50, unsanitary hospitals, etc), I wouldn't even count on the communist state providing QUALITY and far cheaper health care any time soon.

Oh, and I "would love" many beautiful 23 year old girls to slavishly crave my body exactly according to my best dream fantasies. Funny how in real life, what we would love doesn't often happen. Reality -- what a bummer.

3. Southwest Airlines will surely have the cheap airfare to Cuba and your choice will be
$1200 out of pocket for a minor medical procedure or $600 for you and the spouse to go
to Cuba, have it done, spend two days on the beach, and have enough left to make that steep
payment on your health insurance so you can have a $2M ICU death when you get terminally
ill someday.

Per documentaries like an "Inside Man" Season 3, Episode 2, "Club Med" TV program with Morgan Spurlock, such things already exist, but in places like Thailand. Try $50,000 worth of tests and medical advice from top doctors in an eerily competent and efficient hospital with, by the way, VERY NICE hotel/resort style accommodations to recover in for about $100 a day for the room. Also anecdotal information from friends I have who live near Thailand, this already exists, and has for over a decade. Much better, but a longer trip. Dental, medical, etc.)

Oh, and per the "Club Med" episode, Spurlock avoids risky and painful surgery re the simple exercise regimen the Thai doctors recommended for his torn rotator cuff, and got better. So better results for 6% of the price (plus travel). If you don't mind long flights, sounds like a good deal. And I STRONGLY doubt that Cuba will realistically offer anything close to that in quality comparison in a decade or in five, if communism remains, for any cost.

A quick search yielded a link to a reasonable looking CNN story on this episode: http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/28/tv/medica ... nside-man/

Note: re the graphic in the link, the $3,000 vs. $50,000 numbers I got were per the episode (as I remember it, near the end). I think Spurlock's doctor mentioned the $50,000 figure. The $7,000 to $14,000 for everything in the US the CNN gives is largely BS. Colonoscopies (normal) can run as much as $20,000 in the US).

[Cid_Yama]

You are using bogus figures. (Pulled out of your ass?)

In 2013 the life expectancy in Russia increased to 71.07 years.
That year, the life expectancy for women was 76.40 years and for men 66.00 years.

link


Let's look at Cuba.

According to the latest WHO data published in 2013 life expectancy in Cuba is: Male 76.5, female 80.1 and total life expectancy is 78.3 which gives Cuba a World Life Expectancy ranking of 36.

link


What do you think the life expectancy in the US of those without adequate healthcare is?

US life expectancy lowest among industrialized countries

Life expectancy in the United States continues to lag behind that in Western Europe, Canada, Australia and Japan, according to a new report commissioned by the National Institutes of Health (NIH). The study’s findings are a stinging indictment of social inequality in the US and its impact on the conditions of life for wide layers of the American population, young and old.

The panel of experts from the National Research Council and the Institute of Medicine identified the inaccessibility of health care, high levels of poverty and income inequality, as well as the prevalence of gun violence as major contributing factors to the poor life expectancy rate in the US.

The panel found that Americans are not only dying at younger ages than people in almost all other higher-income “peer countries,” but that this pattern of poor health “is strikingly consistent and pervasive over the life course—at birth, during childhood and adolescence, for young and middle-aged adults, and for older adults.”

These health conditions have a particularly acute affect on younger layers of the population, reducing the odds of Americans living to age 50 to the lowest among the countries studied. While earlier studies had shown the US lagging behind other countries in health and life expectancy for those over 50 years old, this was the first comprehensive study to show the dire impact on young people.

The study’s authors do point to some of the underlying social causes of what they term the “U.S. health disadvantage.” “Unlike its peer countries,” they write, “the United States has a relatively large uninsured population and more limited access to primary care. Americans are more likely to find their health care inaccessible or unaffordable and to report lapses in the quality and safety of care outside of hospitals.”

link

[Plantagenet]

I would love to see Cuba become a mecca for
Americans to receive affordable minor surgery and treatment

Thats a really good idea.

Americans already go to Mexico, India, Costa Rica, France etc. etc. to get more affordable healthcare then they can get in the US with our screwed up healthcare system. Hopefully it will soon be possible for Americans to get inexpensive healthcare in Cuba as well...

[Outcast_Searcher]

You are using bogus figures. (Pulled out of your ass?

Sez the clown who was citing "starvation" in the US, despite the entire SNAP program. Yeah Cid, you should cite pulling things out of one's ass. Sure. The pot calling the kettle black, for sure.

I am having trouble finding the link to the figure I cited. I think it was "The Atlantic Monthly", about a decade ago, claiming many Russians died in surgery due to lack of hot water, but of course, we should never expect liberal sources to stand up over time. LOL

I'll sign up for not checking this out as I posted this, as I was on the fence about doing.

Now, how often do YOU admit when you are flagrantly wrong or just making stuff up?

[Cid_Yama]

My figures are ALWAYS backed with documentation. I don't 'make stuff up'.

I don't suffer the ideological affliction of those like you, that prevents them from seeing what is real, and just spout nonsense from the echo chamber.

RAH, RAH, America is the best in everything all the time. As the rest of the world just shakes their head.

Turn off FOX Noise and try to reconnect with reality.

[SILENTTODD]

So a communist in America goes to communist Cuba. Not seeing the story here.

That is pretty drastic Cog, maybe your confusing Obama with Bernie Sanders.

So W Bush must have been a Commie too when he finally went to Vietnam in November 2006 (40 years late). But he did go to Hanoi and toasted his hosts at at state dinner. Time to come into the 21st century.

[ennui2]

And Nixon went to China in the 70s. This idea that only Democrats are willing to extend olive-branches to 'the enemy' is a falsehood.

[Plantagenet]

And Nixon went to China in the 70s. This idea that only Democrats are willing to extend olive-branches to 'the enemy' is a falsehood.

Exactly right. And it was a successful visit too---Google got a contract for internet work in Cuba and US Banks got access to Cuba and US hotels contracted with the Cuban government to run some posh hotels in Havana and Carnival Cruise Lines got access to run cruises to Cuba and US airlines got landing rights.

Obama did good.

[Ibon]

the statute of limitations is about in affect and the climate toward Cuba is quickly changing. The day may come soon that I will share with this board my experiences on this island during the 20 years I was active int he world of commerce selling medical devices in Latin America. I have been reticent to share but maybe one day soon.

[Plantagenet]

the statute of limitations is about in affect and the climate toward Cuba is quickly changing. The day may come soon that I will share with this board my experiences on this island during the 20 years I was active int he world of commerce selling medical devices in Latin America. I have been reticent to share but maybe one day soon.

That sounds really interesting.

Obama recently changed the rules on OFAC violations involving Cuba. The changes are available here:

treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Pages/cuba

I hope you'll share your story soon---I really doubt the O administration would prosecute you no mater what business you were conducting in Cuba.

Cheers!

PS: I'll be visiting Cuba in May. Hope I get there before it opens up to the point that there is a McDonalds on every corner.

[onlooker]

Ennui, says a made a sweeping generalization for saying that Cubans have been conditioned to accept Govt. control and domination. Well guess what I stand by it. Now what does that have to do with the decision of the Government to open up more to the West and to capitalistic ideas. It is the government deciding this not the Cubans. Last time I checked Castro did not take a poll of Cubans asking who wanted more interaction with the West and who wanted a more open economy. This is a communist government and they make the decisions period. Then it was suggested that perhaps Cuba would go the route of China with economic freedoms but still onerous government control of such things as the Internet. I concurred with this suggestion and Ennui seemed to think I was contradicting myself. NO. Cubans would almost assuredly accept some monitoring and continued control by the government if the reward was better living standards.

[ennui2]

The deniers are bad enough, but then you've got those people who SAY they believe in climate change but aren't actually willing to do anything substantive about it. Thats the group I'm always kvetching about

Yeah, how was that trip to Cuba you said you were going to take? And how about that prideful bragging you did a while back about Alaska's oil-fueled rainy day fund buffering you from doom? If you want to kvetch, look in the mirror for once.

[Plantagenet]

how was that trip to Cuba?

It was wonderful. We met with some fairly high-up government officials, and I was very surprised to learn that Cuba has essentially no alternative energy. They don't even have any real hydro power. Not much has been done to modernize their energy sector since the revolution in 1959. The Cubans rely almost exclusively on burning donated oil from Venezuela for their electrical power. And now that there is a financial crisis in Venezuela, that oil supply is starting to dry up.

The only real alternative energy I saw in Cuba was a solar facility built with UN money down on the east coast near Cienfuegos. They've got huge wind and solar potential there----hopefully the Castro regime will go in that direction now. On the other hand, the Castro brothers are both in their 90s, so they aren't exactly filled with new ideas. The communist party may decide to provide Cubans with state of the art 1850s kerosene lamps instead of pushing for wind power if thats what the Castro brothers decide.

Cheers!

[litesong]

..... provide Cubans with state of the art 1850s kerosene lamps....

Hey, hey, hey....... some kerosene lamps were built in the 1900's...... maybe....

[vox_mundi]

..... provide Cubans with state of the art 1850s kerosene lamps....

Hey, hey, hey....... some kerosene lamps were built in the 1900's...... maybe....

They're still in production



$6.99 @ Kohl's

[Plantagenet]

..... provide Cubans with state of the art 1850s kerosene lamps....

Hey, hey, hey....... some kerosene lamps were built in the 1900's...... maybe....

They're still in production



$6.99 @ Kohl's

Gosh---thats so red. The communists in Cuba would love that lamp. But most Cubans can't afford $6.99----thats about half their monthly wages from the state.

In Cuba today kerosene lamps are mainly carefully repaired relics that pre-date the 1959 revolution. They look like this:

[vox_mundi]

A survey, which was conducted among 1,067 Cubans in Havana, Santiago de Cuba, Holguín, Camagüey, Pinar del Río, and Cienfuegos in May and June 2014, found that about 27 percent of Cubans earn under $50 per month; 34 percent earn the equivalent of $50 to $100 per month; and 20 percent earn $101 to $200. Twelve percent reported earning $201 to $500 a month; and almost 4 percent said their monthly earnings topped $500, including 1.5 percent who said they earned more than $1,000

[Plantagenet]

A survey, which was conducted among 1,067 Cubans in Havana, Santiago de Cuba, Holguín, Camagüey, Pinar del Río, and Cienfuegos in May and June 2014, found that about 27 percent of Cubans earn under $50 per month; 34 percent earn the equivalent of $50 to $100 per month; and 20 percent earn $101 to $200. Twelve percent reported earning $201 to $500 a month; and almost 4 percent said their monthly earnings topped $500, including 1.5 percent who said they earned more than $1,000

Yup..those people in Cuba lucky enough to be in the tourism biz or able to sell things to western tourists make reasonable money and can easily afford to buy a new kerosene lamp. But most Cubans have to rely only on their state jobs or state retirement stipends and get paid very little and will never ever ever be able to afford a new iPhone....or even a new kerosene lamp....or really much of anything until they get a job in the private sector.

Cheers!