[Tanada]

I was being funny -- we all know the kremlin doesn't give "press conferences."

Whereas the Pentagon does (it's got a press briefing room and press secretary), and the state dept does, and the WH does, etc.

Some of you guys are so tinfoil.

The coalition command has publicly said the coalition didn't do this.

Pentagon sources have told the New York Times and other journalists that it was "a Russian screwup" and that they had the Russian bomber on radar right over the army base that got hit.

So that's a open and shut case.

The Pentagon doesn't just make stuff up and tell lies, this isn't 1952.

:rofl:

[AgentR11]

Russians are new to this professional military game; if you recall back to Grenada era, any thought of "friendly fire" was just horrifying. Russia hasn't quite realized that the least annoying way to handle this is just to say, "x base was struck by friendly fire resulting in 2 dead 10 wounded. an investigation is underway."

5 days later, reporter asks, "can you tell us any information abuot..."
General Rusky, "an investigation is underway and it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time"

143 days later, reporter asks, "can you tell me any information about.."
General Rusky, "the investigative report has been filed with the appropriate devision, if you'll leave your address with Mr. Jr Rusky...

197 days later, report arrives in the mail.
Reporter opens envelope.
Report is cover page plus one page.
The report page states.

at x pm on y day, a friendly fire incident occured at zeee spot. an explosive device launched by an airplane and resulted in the death of 2 and wounding of 10 soldiers. The event was determined to be accidental.

Signed
General Bob.

Reporter suffers head trauma as forehead strikes desk in frustration... oh so very very hard.


They'll learn. But they're Ruskies, so it'll take longer.
lol. jkjkjk

[Cid_Yama]

6 can't be a real person. It must be a spoof of some kind. He's playing people by pretending to totally believe every single pronouncement of the US government or Western Media without question.

[Sixstrings]

6 can't be a real person. No one could be that simple minded. It must be a spoof of some kind. He's playing people by pretending to totally believe every single pronouncement of the US government or Western Media without question.

Well if anything, actually you all's way of thinking is rubbing off on me.

If you noticed my first post in this thread -- my first hunch was "maybe turkey did it."

But then come to find out, Russia did it! Maybe. Give it time, the truth will come out. If time goes on and Russia says nothing more of it then it was probably friendly fire.

And by the way, I'm just saying, why do a lot of you at first blush believe the Syrian government yet you'e distrustful of the "new york times" and people we have working in the pentagon?

[Cid_Yama]

Why do YOU insist on uncritically believing what the US or Western media says, especially when it goes against common sense?

That's just it. You DIDN'T find out Russia did it. You just unquestioningly believed when the Pentagon said they did.

What evidence did the Pentagon provide to support that conclusion? What part of that evidence finally convinced you that Russia did it? That's just it with you. The Pentagon said it, so it must be true, you never got farther than that.

Of course we attacked the Syrian Army forces that were attacking OUR rebels. Our STATED goal is to overthrow Assad. You can't declare yourself an enemy of Syria clearer that that, short of those cowards in the House of Representatives actually voting on the AUMF.

[Sixstrings]

Well I'll admit Plant had a good point in his post. About other moves going on, like Turkey moving some troops into Iraq.

But I don't know Cid, generally the US military values its credibility and sometimes there's an accident but if they know they didn't do something and they say that then yes I'm inclined to believe it. They're pretty much "just the facts, ma'am" types.

The coalition Joint Command says they didn't do it, they say their planes were 35 miles away hitting oil wellheads.

And from just observing this whole thing, frankly the Obama administration is generally quite cautious. I really can't imagine Obama just out of nowhere greenlighting a cruise missile getting fired off at a Syrian army base and then have the joint command deny it. I'm sorry, that just doesn't sound like Obama.

From what I understand, if it was the coalition that did it then there's 3 different nations it could have been -- US, UK, or France.

But maybe the Brits or French did it, or more likely Cameron -- but I still find that very hard to believe.

On the other side of the coin is also some other facts, like that actually the Russians don't even have a lot of combat experience. My assumption would be they're more prone to some mistakes.

They have not even ever had a real foreign war since the USSR's Afghanistan. (I wouldn't count Georgia)

They simply do not have the air strikes experience, and overall experience, the US does. And didn't that one cruise missile that was fired from the Caspian, land on some cows in Iran by mistake?

They've never even used their strategic bombers in combat before, ever, this is the first deployment in their history.

So I don't know Cid, it seems plausible to me that it was friendly fire.

It's also plausible it was accidental, non inentional, if it was a US or British or French plane.

We'll just have to see where the facts go.

P.S. And so far, the kremlin is being quiet about the incident so that makes me think it was friendly fire.

I don't know, maybe you're right Cid, I just find it hard to believe Obama would approve this.

[Cid_Yama]

Declared or not, we are at war with Syria, as well as IS. Until we are declared, our attacks on Syria's forces will have to be 'accidental', or just plain denied.

We are getting away with what we can, while we can.

[SeaGypsy]

Yep Cid, & everywhere else is publishing anti American propaganda, including Australia.

[Sixstrings]

Yep Cid, & everywhere else is publishing anti American propaganda, including Australia.

edit: edited to be shorter, australia is thread derail. I could just shorten it to say that rather than just criticize everything all the time, and rather than being held back by its far left, it would help Australia's long term defense interests if it stepped up more. Australia needs to have agreements with Japan and be more involved in the US bloc -- **just so that Australia has influence**. That's very important, if there are not strong ties and a seat at the table, Australia will have no influence.

Australia won't ever be a strong military power in the bloc for quite a few years, but it COULD be a diplomatic leader.

The US actually just wants to hand problems over, in the Pacific and other places, to regional allied powers. Australia could be a leader, in the US pacific bloc.

Australia doesn't have to fear China. Seriously, don't worry about China. People can say no to China, and China will still want to invest and such.

Okay let's try to keep this on topic to the thread. Australia's a derail.

[Cid_Yama]

A lot can be gleaned from what isn't said. Surprisingly no one claimed Syria lied about their troops being killed. They may have tried to blame it on someone else, but no one seemed to question the claim itself.

Seems everyone has accepted that an attack did indeed take place. But that makes it easier to justify banning coalition aircraft from Syrian airspace. Is it a shoe waiting to drop?

Does the report of Syrian army positions being attacked by coalition forces, now justify the shooting down of coalition aircraft? Does it fulfill Russia's requirement in order to declare a no-fly zone for coalition aircraft and defend it with the S-400?

I'm sure Assad likes the help against IS, but at some point, the downside becomes too great. Frankly, if I were Assad, I would ban coalition aircraft from Syrian airspace. Now, instead of later. Later the coalition will surely declare Syria a 'failed' state with no sovereign rights, or establish a government in exile.

[SeaGypsy]

6,Australia is a lot more savvy on Asia than any other westernized country. We have deep ongoing ties throughout the region in trade, military assistance, many millions of people engaged in business tied to Asia. We are continuously in trade negotiations with every country between Pakistan & Japan.

The only deep conflict at a scale that matters in Asia now is Japan vs China. SE Asia has many hundreds of years of dealing with China & Chinese. Don't forget the Khmer Empire was one of the greatest in history & never defeated. There has long been an uneasy balance in Asia, & Japan in its attempt to create one Asia, disturbed & distorted relationships mostly in balance in a way the Chinese never have.

China is about business. Chinese in SE Asia & Oceania, with language skills & contacts are gold here, in a way the Japanese never were. We aren't worried about China, we are having a ball with the investment opportunities shared between us. The Chinese are very good to do business with. What worries Aussies more in our region is probably more about what happens if a hothead gets in control of your Whitehouse & gets into escalating one or other ancient conflicts into a regional war nobody wants.

[Sixstrings]

The only deep conflict at a scale that matters in Asia now is Japan vs China. SE Asia has many hundreds of years of dealing with China & Chinese. Don't forget the Khmer Empire was one of the greatest in history & never defeated. There has long been an uneasy balance in Asia, & Japan in its attempt to create one Asia, disturbed & distorted relationships mostly in balance in a way the Chinese never have.

Is this what they teach in the Australian education system? To fear modern Japan, based on old history? Or are these media narratives, in recent decades?

China is about business. Chinese in SE Asia & Oceania, with language skills & contacts are gold here, in a way the Japanese never were. We aren't worried about China, we are having a ball with the investment opportunities shared between us. The Chinese are very good to do business with. What worries Aussies more in our region is probably more about what happens if a hothead gets in control of your Whitehouse & gets into escalating one or other ancient conflicts into a regional war nobody wants.

Well if Australia's worried about that, then what it ought to do is take a break from "having a ball with China" and get more involved in the US allied pacific bloc.

Australia needs agreements with Japan, a lot more military cooperation with Japan and south korea, and everybody work as a team.

If Australia won't do this, then Australia will not have any influence. If Australia were a leader though, in the US allied bloc, then Australia would have INFLUENCE and control on events if things ever DID get heated between Tokyo and Beijing.

China behind 'massive' cyber-attack on Australian government: ABC

A major cyber-attack against Australia's Bureau of Meteorology that may have compromised potentially sensitive national security information is being blamed on China, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) reported on Wednesday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-cybersecurity-idUSKBN0TL08M20151202#XYoFZvmOl8PPGXCK.97

By the way, why does China keep hacking everyone's meteorology systems? They did this same thing in the US.

China warns Australia not to follow the USA too much:

Australian and Chinese military officials in 'blunt' exchange on South China Sea

Australian and Chinese officials including Beijing's top army general had a "direct and blunt" exchange over the Asian giant's island-building in the South China Sea this week, Fairfax Media has learnt.

China also cautioned countries including Australia against following the US lead in carrying out "freedom of navigation" exercises near Beijing's artificial islands to signal they do not recognise the territorial claims.

The dialogue between Australia's defence brass and General Fang Fenghui, Chief of the General Staff of the Chinese People's Liberation Army, sparked controversy this week because Defence failed initially to release any statement about the talks or inform the Australian media they were happening.

...

Officials discussed the recent patrol by the US destroyer the Lassen and Australia's support for that patrol, which was Washington's way to signal to Beijing that it has no territorial claim over waters surrounding the islands.
Australia and other countries such as Japan are weighing whether to reinforce Washington's gesture by carrying out their own patrols close to the islands.

...

Australia also stressed the importance of continuing US presence in the Asia region.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australian-and-chinese-military-officials-in-blunt-exchange-on-south-china-sea-20151202-gldv77.html

China’s puzzling defence agreement with Australia

The Australian's editorial reports that a 'robust' exchange took place on the South China Sea. Yet the editors' claim that 'the new engagement should ideally put Australia in a better position to assert a restraining hand on Chinese expansionism in the region' smacks of fantasy. From Beijing's perspective, an agreement to upgrade the defence relationship — however modest — presents an opportunity to pocket a concession and to drive a wedge between Washington and its closest regional ally, at a time when Canberra is supposedly 'on the same page' in regard to the South China Sea.
http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2015/12/07/Chinas-puzzling-defence-agreement-with-Australia.aspx

[Apneaman]

AWESOME: Long 170-tanker Convoy of ISIL Oil Tankers Hit by Russian Fighter Jets Near Syria-Turkey Border (No Warning Flyers Beforehand)



http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines-20 ... beforehand

[Apneaman]

Iran Has 'Irrefutable Evidence' of Turkey-Daesh Cooperation

"“Iranian military advisors in Syria have taken photos and filmed all the routes used by ISIL's oil tankers to Turkey. If the Turkish authorities are unaware of the Daesh oil sales in their country, then we can provide them with such intelligence,” Rezaie told reporters on Friday."

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/2015120 ... z3tgz4prMq

[Cog]

You could fire a missile or drop a bomb anywhere in Syria and you are going to hit a bad guy.

[SeaGypsy]

6, you obviously know SFA about SE Asia & Oceania. You probably don't know but that was my tag for 'expert' on this site. You don't know anything about our relationship with your own country either, carrying on like an Idiot. Google Shared Forces Agreement AU's US for God's sake! How about Pine Gap, pretty nifty having a massive underground communications lair in the middle of Australia with it's own sovereign air strip & tunnel to the ultra secure Sovereign US Territory. Jeez man really please shut up about stuff you know nothing about.

[SeaGypsy]

Iran Has 'Irrefutable Evidence' of Turkey-Daesh Cooperation

"“Iranian military advisors in Syria have taken photos and filmed all the routes used by ISIL's oil tankers to Turkey. If the Turkish authorities are unaware of the Daesh oil sales in their country, then we can provide them with such intelligence,” Rezaie told reporters on Friday."

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/2015120 ... z3tgz4prMq

http://blogfactory.co.uk/archives/19833

Just stumbled on this rant, mostly on the implausibility of Obama & Erdogan's friendship getting in the way of the truth (& between a lot of people's bodies & their heads).

I remember early last year seeing where the IS scum got their tankers- hijack & slaughter on an industrial scale. Anyway the wages bill now? Who wants a job driving one of those now? Who wants a job pointing a gun at the head of the driver even?

I cant see why Obama should not be thoroughly investigated for treason in his duplicitous lying about this hideous bunch of murderers he & his best buddy Erdo have been propping up. Is not the very definition of Treason- giving aid to the enemy ?

[Shaved Monkey]

Surely presidents are just the PR guys for the corporation the "real democracy" happens behind closed doors.

[radon1]

. Jeez man really please shut up about stuff you know nothing about.

Don't say that, he'll have to stop posting altogether.

[AgentR11]

By the way, why does China keep hacking everyone's meteorology systems? They did this same thing in the US.

Propaganda answer: They're attempt to gain control over all Western information systems.

Real answer: Chinese teenager wants to create a link with a valid reverse dns entry in order to establish a VPN, from which he can proxy IRC across, in order to say naughty words on European IRC channels.

Don't read to much into "mass attacks". There are umpteen million Chinese teens with access to the internet and they have the typical teenage mentality of trying to sneak around the authorities.

Focused small attacks are likely much more dangerous and likely also not reported.