Leanan wrote:I think that's likely the only way we'll save knowledge that is no longer useful. If some wealthy or secret society devotes itself to saving it. (Kind like "A Canticle for Liebowitz.")
bobcousins wrote:Leanan, thanks for your posts, I think you are about the only person around here that truly "gets it".
Leanan wrote:Me, I kind of doubt we'll succeed in saving much knowledge for the future.
bobcousins wrote:That is probably too abstract a concept for most people to grasp. [What a load of BS, I can already hear you saying!]
Get what? surely we all "get it" or we wouldn't be posting on this site?
I personally am a bit tired of his/her doom and gloom, no-point-to-life attitude, its bad enough that peak oil is probably imminent and we're heading for a crash, without having to defend my optimistic-realist view of life.
Aaron wrote:Don't bother to defend your optimistic-realist view of life. Just trash one of our respected posters.
No offence was meant.
I was defending my view of life here and here , i just got fed up, sorry.
It won't directly be lack of energy or resources that does for us. It will be the inability to sustain a complex society.
Have you got a crystal ball that lets you see the future or something, how do you know what its going to be like?
No, so perhaps you could stop patronizing those of us who want to try and make preparations by saving as much knowledge as we can,
i bet you both put something in a time capsule type thing when you were at school, well storing information now would be similar to that.
Why not just go and post in the planning forum that you think that everyone who is preparing is wasting their time, see what response you get.
I think it is a mistake to compare most of our present civilisation with anything that has gone before for the simple reason that what is happening now just doesnt have any precedent, the Mayans or the Easter Islanders etc didnt have bicycles, steam engines, electricity, thermionic valves or transistors etc etc.
We probably wont just flip from this to hunting wild animals (if theres any left) and sleeping under the stars.
Long before we started using oil, our societies started evolving from less, to more complex societies.
Leanan wrote:And most such civilizations eventually collapse, when they can no longer maintain their complexity.
Aaron wrote:Although I gotta say that I agree that most people don't really "get it".
I'm not familiar with your individual position on peak effects, but it is all too common to see unrealistic expectations for how things will go after peak.
The magnitude of the issues we discuss here are simply alien to most people.
The scale involved in complex societies deceives the mind accustomed to dealing with much smaller quantities.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
But what if you had a backup medium that was nigh indestructible, almost immune to inclement conditions, and made of stone? You’d have the Millenniata M-Disc, which is basically a 4.7GB DVD with a data layer made out of stone-like metals and metalloids. The idea is that conventional, home-made optical discs have a very soft recording/data layer that isn’t very resistant to heat, humidity and light, while the M-Disc on the other hand has a much tougher data layer that can withstand the test of time. M-Discs can’t be burnt with your current DVD burner — melting stone requires a laser that’s five times stronger than normal! — but on the flip side, M-Discs are backwards compatible and can be read by normal DVD drives.
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