[evilgenius]

The current issue is both one of forgiveness and of forbearance. In both cases you know the other one is already guilty. We don't seem to be accepting that. There is an element of protest that is still coming along. But that is for historical guilt. People don't want to accept a sense of shame that comes from those from before not having been like what we imagined them to be in our youth. It takes a while for children to reach an age where they can spot abnormal behavior. Everything is normal up to a certain age.

How can anybody say that a child born into a system is guilty of the guilt of that system? Doesn't justice always say that an offense must be committed before punishment can be dealt out? It is not within our concept of justice to imprison people because we suspect they might do something. Yes, we did set some unsettling precedents with terrorism. That could be why we are trapped in this discussion. We opened a taboo subject, thinking it was perfectly safe to do so. Now, look at us eat ourselves.

There must come a certain point where a child accepts the system? If they choose to operate within it in a normal manner, acquiescing to the demands of the life they choose. So, if it is expedient to look the other way, they will. If it is expedient to accept unmerited favor, they will. Who will be the hero and champion a system that is actually fair? The pressure is to choose survival of the fittest over our humanity. Almost every racial injustice is an exclusionary act carried out in the name of survival. Even when there is ample proof that we don't have to worry about survival, we still act as if we do. No, we have to be on guard against the limbic or reptile brain all of the time.

[Tanada]

this craziness has deep roots

Which “crazieness” is this?

Who and what exactly are you referring to?

The French Revolution
The Nazi Take-Over of Europe
The 2020 U.S. Capitol Insurrection
2021 U.S.A.

WOW! Talk about a blind spot to historical timelines!
The French Revolution lasted about 8 years and killed around a million people who got on the wrong side of those who came to power.

The NAZI takeover began in 1933 and ended very thoroughly after 12 years in 1945.

A one day riot by a bunch of idiots doesn't even rate more than a paragraph in any future history text book unless it somehow leads to a Religious Theocracy or other horrible change in government by a connection like the "Beer Hall Putsch" did with Hitler. If it does lead to a different repressive regime it will still only rate two paragraph's in that future history textbook.

2021 May be the beginning of a new revolutionary government taking hold but if so I don't see any evidence of it and we are 6 months through the year now. Even the collapse of an Authoritarian government like the USSR is not an overnight event. There were a lot of turning points between 1988-1992 when things could have gone a completely different direction including straight back into being a horribly repressive regime.

The French Revolution is like a two humped camel, the Monarchy was considered repressive. Then the Revolutionaries took over and were not only repressive, they were inclined to settle every old grievance right down to the next door neighbor being too noisy via execution. eventually enough people became more scared of the Revolutionary Government than they were of the idea of having a stable monarchy and Napoleon came to power as self proclaimed emperor and protector of the masses. All three periods were extremely authoritarian with little attention paid to individual rights, though Napoleon did create the "Napoleonic Code" that secured certain basic rights along wth standardizing European bureaucracy.

The NAZI tried the "Insurrection" approach and certain key figures ended up serving jail time most notably Hitler. But it wasn't jail time like you would get, Hitler was in the same sort of prison as Martha Stewart, with visitors, writing materials and lots of privileges you or I would never see.

When Hitler was appointed after the election he worked diligently to increase his control over a period of five years before he was the unquestioned dictator whose word could get you imprisoned or executed on a whim. Don't get me wrong he did plenty of evil in those first five years, but it was more through convincing people rather than coercing people. The coercion became the main mode once he had secured complete power. I would not say anything Hitler accomplished was good. He instituted politically and fiscally motivated eugenics to kill off the sick so they would not be a "burden" on society. This evolved over time into killing the disliked minorities like homosexuals, Romani (Gypsy's), Jehovah's Witnesses and Jewish persons.

The USA may end up in a Revolution or a Civil War but right now we are still a long way from those conditions. You have to have a large minority of the population willing to risk "Their lives, their fortunes and their sacred Honor" before you get a revolution or civil war. Mostly what I see are a bunch of keyboard warriors who think ruining someones reputation is a total victory over their enemies.

[Newfie]

Evil wrote:

No, we have to be on guard against the limbic or reptile brain all of the time.

Exactly so. That primal brain is common to all humanity.

P.S. That is a nice bit of writing and thinking.

[Newfie]

Ahmen

[jedrider]

Sure, blame our problems on all of humanity. Spread it so thin so that no one in particular is at fault. Sounds to me like the secular equivalent of Original Sin.

Capitol Insurrectionist should just claim 'it was just my limbic system' that caused me to follow the dictates of that wannabe Mussolini/Hitler guy.

[Newfie]

If you really need someone to blame it on how about folks who can not think for themselves and thus follow the path of their tribal masters.

I have reviewed your bible and its contents and found it void of meaning, just like the other religious tracts. I know YOU are convinced if your righteous position, that only your kin believers shall pass through the gates.

Your dogma does not resonate with my logic.

Show me some proof your way is the correct way and convince me why those you consider infidels should perish.

[evilgenius]

Sure, blame our problems on all of humanity. Spread it so thin so that no one in particular is at fault. Sounds to me like the secular equivalent of Original Sin.

Capitol Insurrectionist should just claim 'it was just my limbic system' that caused me to follow the dictates of that wannabe Mussolini/Hitler guy.

I like to understand people. I think it is the difference between knowing what is behind an action and simply seeing the action and reacting to it. The next question is the one about what to do with what you see. The answer to that is where overreaction and shame can dominate. It is too easy to choose violence. Those who do so tend to become very happy with their choice, until someone who is a better ass kicker comes along. But a person can also be a milquetoast. They can accept every abuse taking place around them and do nothing about it.

Personally, I've learned how to deal with this from my body. My body is a little larger than other men's bodies. I've not just been that little bit larger. I've always been a lot stronger than the size difference would indicate. That means I can break things easily. I could go around arrogantly, assuming the world should be tough enough to deal with me. That would mean I couldn't have any nice things, though. I've had to learn to be gentle. I could be in control of a very small world through brutish means, but I would rather have a larger, more complicated and kinder world through giving grace.

[Newfie]

Evil,

I would like to add a thought of my own to complement yours above, if it fits.

We can not forgive ourselves until we learn to forgive our parents. Literally and in metaphor.

We are strongly influenced by our parents, and elders. And they by theirs, and so on. We all make mistakes and act badly at times and need forgiveness. But why we made those mistakes often comes from our forefathers. Attitudes and adaptions are handed down between generations. If we seek forgiveness then we need to extend that forgiveness and understanding backwards in time.

And so it hoes forward as well. Our children will he upset with us and what they perceive as our mistakes. Do we want to be treated with understanding and charity and forgiveness? If so then we should model those attributes in our own daily actions.

[evilgenius]

Evil,

I would like to add a thought of my own to complement yours above, if it fits.

We can not forgive ourselves until we learn to forgive our parents. Literally and in metaphor.

We are strongly influenced by our parents, and elders. And they by theirs, and so on. We all make mistakes and act badly at times and need forgiveness. But why we made those mistakes often comes from our forefathers. Attitudes and adaptions are handed down between generations. If we seek forgiveness then we need to extend that forgiveness and understanding backwards in time.

And so it hoes forward as well. Our children will he upset with us and what they perceive as our mistakes. Do we want to be treated with understanding and charity and forgiveness? If so then we should model those attributes in our own daily actions.

That is so true. The only thing is, I don't even think it is usually our parents we do that to. It is the idea of what a self was that we perceived died at the hands of our parents. And everybody's idea of what constitutes a self is different, within parameters. Some people are real outliers. So, if we had no parents we would still have this issue. We actually have it with ourselves.

We have to forgive ourselves for what we did to ourselves in our ignorance. We like to go about trying to say we had wisdom but just didn't use it. We don't like to admit we weren't wise at all. The emotional man won't let us. The pride embedded within our self-referencing consciousnesses won't. It's better, however to admit defeat. That way we can construct a new paradigm that aligns with wisdom. The other way is the way of denial. We will keep lying to ourselves that way.

I know it isn't always like that. Some people are treated to the worst. Their parents do deserve the blame. They hit them or neglected them. They could simply have not believed in them. Parents can do bad things and its a captive audience. They get to make sure. But, even then, the individual will always face the question of what to do next. Barring the self-examination, they usually turn out just like their parents! Hell, even with that, it can takes generations for a family to free itself.

[Ayoob]

And you analysis of this part???

Here are some of the quotes from the lecture:

This is the cost of talking to white people at all. The cost of your own life, as they suck you dry. There are no good apples out there. White people make my blood boil. (Time stamp: 6:45)
I had fantasies of unloading a revolver into the head of any white person that got in my way, burying their body, and wiping my bloody hands as I walked away relatively guiltless with a bounce in my step. Like I did the world a fucking favor. (Time stamp: 7:17)
White people are out of their minds and they have been for a long time. (Time stamp: 17:06)
We are now in a psychological predicament, because white people feel that we are bullying them when we bring up race. They feel that we should be thanking them for all that they have done for us. They are confused, and so are we. We keep forgetting that directly talking about race is a waste of our breath. We are asking a demented, violent predator who thinks that they are a saint or a superhero, to accept responsibility. It ain’t gonna happen. They have five holes in their brain. It’s like banging your head against a brick wall. It’s just like sort of not a good idea. (Time stamp 17:13)
We need to remember that directly talking about race to white people is useless, because they are at the wrong level of conversation. Addressing racism assumes that white people can see and process what we are talking about. They can’t. That’s why they sound demented. They don’t even know they have a mask on. White people think it’s their actual face. We need to get to know the mask. (Time stamp 17:54)

From a white woman who claims all whites are
“ demented, violent predator” and “White people are out of their minds and they have been for a long time.”

A psychoanalyst (talk therapy!!) who says
“ talking about race is a waste of our breath.” And
“ This is the cost of talking to white people at all. The cost of your own life, as they suck you dry. There are no good apples out there. White people make my blood boil”

And then tries to hide behind a fig leaf of “fantasies” when she says
“
I had fantasies of unloading a revolver into the head of any white person that got in my way, burying their body, and wiping my bloody hands as I walked away relatively guiltless with a bounce in my step. Like I did the world a fucking favor. (Time stamp: 7:17)“

As a psychoanalyst she SHOULD know that blabbing fantasies is a lot different from having fantasies. That talking to a trained therapist in a professional setting is far different that describing the fantasies from a podium thus giving life to them.

Now here is the question to YOU.

In your posts you have a repetitive trend of saying both sides have difficulties and then slamming the one side and praising the other.

This lady is of your side. Can you see the insanity in her or do you agree with her?

From you above post, where you stepped over the notable quotes above and cherry picked the most innocuous bit of the interview it appears you are at best completely blind to the Lefts extremes, or even support them.

And that is something I am seeing n a few folks; the cultural appropriation of crimes against others. It is like the lady who claimed to he black for decades when she was in fact white. The above woman is white, but talks as if she where “a person of color.”

She's Jewish

[Newfie]

I have seen her attributed to being Iranian, but most sources seem to think East Indian.

Biography Daily.

[rangerone314]

Anyone who thinks that you can overthrow the government by occupying a single building in this country, is a bigger moron, than the morons that waltzed in to the capitol building.

Anyone hoping for a civil war is almost certainly a moron, because the likelihood is that it would solve nothing, and the chaos and destruction would simply accelerate the inevitable collapse of the country that will result in a massive die off much earlier.

The smart thing to do is to simply plan for surviving the collapse and having a plan for rebuilding after most of the people in North America are dead.

[rangerone314]

Sure, blame our problems on all of humanity. Spread it so thin so that no one in particular is at fault. Sounds to me like the secular equivalent of Original Sin.

Capitol Insurrectionist should just claim 'it was just my limbic system' that caused me to follow the dictates of that wannabe Mussolini/Hitler guy.

I know how to solve all of our racial problems in the US. We can export 40 million blacks back to Africa so they don't have to put up with evil white people and where they will be much happier, and we can let 40 million Nigerian immigrants move to the US to replace them.

A win for everyone!

[Newfie]

Anyone who thinks that you can overthrow the government by occupying a single building in this country, is a bigger moron, than the morons that waltzed in to the capitol building.

Anyone hoping for a civil war is almost certainly a moron, because the likelihood is that it would solve nothing, and the chaos and destruction would simply accelerate the inevitable collapse of the country that will result in a massive die off much earlier.

The smart thing to do is to simply plan for surviving the collapse and having a plan for rebuilding after most of the people in North America are dead.

Pretty much our plan. But as we age it gets less important. Not likely I will be here for the rebuilding part.

[jedrider]

The two sides seem to be implacable enemies and without common ground

EXCEPT when it comes to foreign wars and defense spending and the prison state and climate change

and antipathy towards reporters who point out these flaws.

So, it's all come down to abortion and LBTQ rights and, basically, opposing each other.

I'm not saying it's symmetrical or anything, but just CENTRISTS against REACTIONARIES,

with Democratic principles in play, of course, which is crucial.

The Empire Strikes Back at the Left in Buffalo and Cleveland
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/07/01/empire-strikes-back-left-buffalo-and-cleveland

The second-largest cities in New York and Ohio are battlegrounds between activists fighting for progressive change and establishment forces determined to prevent it.

[Newfie]

I'm not saying it's symmetrical or anything, but just CENTRISTS against REACTIONARIES,

If you mean reactionaries of all stripes, left, right, and out in orbit or beyond, I agree.

[Newfie]

A quote from a different era that seems very fitting today…..

One of the roots of the problem as I see it," he says, "is the great American moral guilt complex. It always needs some new moral issue to feed on. It goes way back to Puritan times, when there had to be sin and guilt around somewhere. I think there's need for change and a need for reform, but I don't know why it has to be put in the form of devil theory all the time.

And then…..

"I was opposed to the war from day one, along with Don Fraser in the House and a lot of other people, and I was opposed all the way through. But as that war went on I noticed a fouler and fouler type of person attaching himself to the anti-war movement. People filled with guilt and looking for an easy way out will pick a noble cause and shit on everybody in the name of this noble cause. Exactly the same kind of person who will join the police force will join the anti-police force, and between the two of them they get a whipsaw going. They whipsaw everybody back and forth until they've got a real froth going, and nothing constructive takes place.

http://www.psybertron.org/ZenSailboat.html

[Outcast_Searcher]

Anyone who thinks that you can overthrow the government by occupying a single building in this country, is a bigger moron, than the morons that waltzed in to the capitol building.

Anyone hoping for a civil war is almost certainly a moron, because the likelihood is that it would solve nothing, and the chaos and destruction would simply accelerate the inevitable collapse of the country that will result in a massive die off much earlier.

The smart thing to do is to simply plan for surviving the collapse and having a plan for rebuilding after most of the people in North America are dead.

So, still planning for the imminent "collapse", eh?

How many lifetimes must pass before that strategy isn't deemed optimal, every single year the insta-doomers forecast it, and aside from periodic recessions or inconveniences, BAU CONTINUES?

[Newfie]

Planning for collapse, or at least some significant disruption, seems rather prudent to me.

Looking at current affairs in South Africa is interesting.

It does not take much, a moderate snowfall or protest to snarl city traffic. Perhaps if I wanted to over throw a city I would plan for series of tradfic disruptions, endless traffic jams.

[evilgenius]

Anyone who thinks that you can overthrow the government by occupying a single building in this country, is a bigger moron, than the morons that waltzed in to the capitol building.

Anyone hoping for a civil war is almost certainly a moron, because the likelihood is that it would solve nothing, and the chaos and destruction would simply accelerate the inevitable collapse of the country that will result in a massive die off much earlier.

The smart thing to do is to simply plan for surviving the collapse and having a plan for rebuilding after most of the people in North America are dead.

I think talking about a potential civil war in a thread like this could just be an exercise in a certain type of mental masturbation. As such, it's a very appealing topic. But it would get pretty boring if it didn't also talk about the ways to avoid wrestling with that scenario. There must be some value in looking out for those things which might dangerously divide us, and wondering what the right thing to do about them might be?

I think this particular mental space is a hard one for Americans to deal with. Americans don't mind it when the faults of others are pointed out on reality TV shows, but they do have a problem with being asked to admit their own faults. Emotionally, Americans are about as well developed as your average video game player. They are very good at hunting around and finding out how to play the game. They are terrible about even reading the basic description of the game that comes up when the thing is booting. Oh, they will listen to advice, sometimes, from how to cheat videos on Youtube.