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The car that makes its own fuel?

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

The car that makes its own fuel?

Unread postby dolem98 » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 11:40:18

A unique system that can produce Hydrogen inside a car using common metals such as Magnesium and Aluminum was developed by an Israeli company. The system solves all of the obstacles associated with the manufacturing, transporting and storing of hydrogen to be used in cars. When it becomes commercial in a few years time, the system will be incorporated into cars that will cost about the same as existing conventional cars to run, and will be completely emission free.


http://www.isracast.com/tech_news/231005_tech.htm
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Re: The car that makes its own fuel?

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 11:54:17

Last edited by emersonbiggins on Tue 25 Oct 2005, 12:00:54, edited 2 times in total.
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

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Re: The car that makes its own fuel?

Unread postby brobak » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 11:54:58

Where's the infrastructure to get the "metal fuel" to the car? Not like it flows through pipes? Also, its not like this stuff exists in abundance in a pure form. It has to be smelted and purified, yadda yadda. Non starter.
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Re: The car that makes its own fuel?

Unread postby JayBee » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 12:05:53

People are already doing similar here...

http://h2gen.info

I set up a similar reactor: aluminium foil waste from orange juice cartons, NaOH (catalyst) from drain cleaner and water. Just keep adding Al and H2O.

It works. Not sure on practicality. Might try it with a lawnmower engine.
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Re: The car that makes its own fuel?

Unread postby gnm » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 12:24:50

This is retarded. It doesn't scale well at all and the metal is NOT a fuel. It is an energy carrier. Like Hydrogen. And not a very good one at that. It takes a damn lot of energy to produce Magnesium and Aluminum. So all you are doing is moving the pollution and waste of energy outside the vehicle.

BFD

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Re: The car that makes its own fuel?

Unread postby Caoimhan » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 12:48:09

And peak oil isn't about pollution.

But let's talk about pollution for a minute...

The same arguments hold true for Battery Electric Vehicles. All the pollution is moved out of the vehicle and to centralized locations where the "fuel" is produced.

But is this so bad? Moving the pollution out of our Urban centers, and producing the pollution instead at centralized plants outside of the urban centers, where there can be controls implemented?

Personally, I prefer the Zinc/Hydrogen cycle to Magnesium or Aluminum, but oxidizing metals in water to produce hydrogen isn't a bad idea.
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Re: The car that makes its own fuel?

Unread postby Wildwell » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 13:57:57

Companies do themselves no favours claiming that things are emission free when all they are doing is shifting the energy process hence pollution somewhere else. People wised up years ago that their washing machine might not produce any pollution at site but someone is getting a stack full of coal smoke elsewhere. Producing an engine that runs of a finite and very useful resource such as metal, which takes huge amounts of energy to make and its better being recycled into other things is about as dum as it gets.
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Re: The car that makes its own fuel?

Unread postby gnm » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 15:34:41

If you're going to make an engine that uses a hydrogen carrier then why not ammonia. Theres a thread on this already. Amonnia is a much better hydrogen carrier and is way more easily produced than AL or Mg...

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Re: The car that makes its own fuel?

Unread postby Caoimhan » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 15:45:56

I followed that thread about ammonia. There are still problems with it, especially since most ammonia is produced using natural gas, and ammonia still has toxicity issues in the handling.
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Re: The car that makes its own fuel?

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 17:31:56

Companies do themselves no favours claiming that things are emission free when all they are doing is shifting the energy process hence pollution somewhere else.


If said companies were honest, they'd mention that the pollution such cars produce even from a coal plant is there, but still less than a comparable gasoline powered car. Fortunately, many of them, like AC Propulsion, or Commuter Cars are fairly honest about this. On the other extreme, you had General Motors, Chrysler, and Ford funding false studies with grossly inaccurate figures claiming the electric cars made much more pollution than comparable gas cars when the emissions and batteries were counted. These false studies were off by factors of thousands, but were used as a smear campaign to paint a negative picture of the technology.

What I need to know is how much energy(usually electricity) is used to make this car's 'fuel', and how much energy it takes to recycle it. This will let one calculate the pollution associated with its use.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: The car that makes its own fuel?

Unread postby Caoimhan » Tue 25 Oct 2005, 19:32:00

Toecutter... you may want to also look at the means by which the specific metals in question can be separated from the oxygen.

Aluminum Oxide uses lots of electricity.

Zinc Oxide can use thermal energy.

The option to use thermal reduction is very helpful.
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